Working on stuffing an LS into a Fiat the build thread is on Hotrodders https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/1...roject.550685/

Working with an LS4 to get the belt drive up against the block



Going for a setup similar to this Audi A6 setup as the engine bay is tight in the Fiat. The whole car is only 11' long




Since the LS4 waterpump is off outboard the left cylinder head, it would put the pump outside the hood - not to mention the manifold sticks significantly above the cylinder heads . Also, since none of the other LS pumps are close enough to the block, looking for.alternatives

So looking at possibly using the LT waterpump from a 2016 Camaro , and trimming the manifold to pull the pump up against the right head

Here is the pump.


I'm looking for someone that has a water pump and may have an LS block.

I need to know if it's feasible to simply modify the LT waterpump by milling the mount pads down and a bit of fab work on the back of the pump relocating the heater connections to get the pump body to touch the RH head and get the belt about 1/4" off the timing cover to align with the LS4 damper

If anyone has the LT1 waterpump CAD model or a good scan, that would be all I need

Thanks in advance

PS, the last resort will be Pierburg water pumps (BMW) and PWM drivers

 

Measured the LT waterpump in the Sierra. If the Camaro/Vette waterpump section is similar, then the pump section should fit.

Still need confirmation on the rest of the LT1/LT4 Camaro/Vette manifold

 

these are the dimensions needed for either the corvette or camaro gen V waterpump manifolds. I can do the modifications.

 

Instead of chopping it up and welding, why not 3D print in aluminum?

 

because the cost to 3D print it in aluminum would be more than I have in the 800# of parts making up the driveline from crank pulley to IRS. no way to 3D print the housing for less than $500, then have it machined and buy a pump cartridge, I will have less than $125 in buying a take-off pump manifold and modifying it.

 

A few pics from a seller on facetube marketplace.

Confirmation of the pump section thickness that moves the pump mod from plausible to highly probable

 

I think if you’ll compare the water pump gaskets of the LS to the water pump gaskets of the LT, you’ll see two entirely different fitment issues.

 

already planned on that. nothing that can not be addressed with a welder, a laser cut block and a bit of grinding.

 

Have you considered going with an electric pump that can be remotely mounted?

 

yes, that was plan A, we are now onto plan E. the issues with a remote electric pump like a Mezier, is that its only good for 3000 hours. that is 1-2 years of daily use. I then looked into the Davies Craig pumps, and settled on the Pierburg pumps used in BMW's however I do not have room for them. all covered in the build thread on hotrodders.

so back to this plan

 

before I scanning the manifold, I simply printed out the LS block interface and taped it over the LT manifold, aligning the top bolts and the top ports....





so the 6 bolts and the top ports line up perfectly. the only issue is minor and i repeat, minor miss-match on the bottom ports. since I am going to mill the block mounting pads down, I will fill them in then. a bit of die grinder work will open up the ports to match the LS port.




it looks like I can mill off about 5/8 - 3/4" of the pads, and I should only need to shift the pump section about 1/4" - 3/8"

the water pump pulley will need to be pressed about 2.2mm or .090" closer

now to scan the manifold.

 

turns out less fitment issues than you would think

 

Here is a brief shot of the project, a LS4, mated to an AR5 with a dakota AX15 bellhousing, in a Fiat Topolino wagon with C4 corvette suspension with the wheel base stretched from 78" to 86" yes, that is stretching the wheel base from 6'-6" to 7'-2"

V8 swaps are a bit more difficult when the car is only 11 feet long, and you want to keep it a 4-seater, use it as a daily driver, and hit an autocross course or take to a drag once in a while. because of that, you must get creative with packaging





below is the only place where a Pierburg pump will fit, under the RH cylinder head up against the block, however I need two for the two Scirocco radiators, and room for two of the in-line thermostats. the only other place I can add a second waterpump is near the differential.

this is what pushed me back to a block mounted waterpump that must sit in front of the RH cylinder head, as that is the only room I have.

 

Are you able to use the single Pierburg pump and run the two radiators in series instead of parallel? Or even go with a remote mechanical pump and throw it on the accessory drive.

My immediate thought with your current plan is that serviceability is going to be an issue down the line if that housing isn't rebuildable. As a point of reference, I recently was looking to rebuild my LS water pump and was amazed that I couldn't find parts. If the same is true for the Gen V stuff, then you're looking at doing this again when the pump needs replacement. The other thing you could look at would be one of the Holley Gen V housings and modifying one of them. Those are rebuildable.

 

Im not touching the waterpump itself other than pressing the pulley on further, that can be done with a press on a replacement pumps well. so serviceability remains. the manifold is rebuildable by unbolting the pump cartridge and bolting in a new one....and remains so. water pumps for the LS and LT are available, the manifolds usually become NLA.

not sure how the holley gen V housing helps, they are targeted for engine compartments that have room as they move the pump centered on the engine, making my engine longer than it currently is. you have to remember, my belt sits 3" closer to the block than the standard Holley belt drive does.

not the first time I had to make everything for a swap. not the last. Im used to making oil pans, headers, thermostat housings, custom oil coolers, custom flywheels, custom pulleys, etc.

regarding the accessory drive and a belt driven pump, the only two locations I have available are the valley between the heads where the alternator is, and the area under the RH head where the one Pierburg is sitting. this engine is using the LS4 crank and damper, so the belt sits literally 1.1" off the front face of the block. the only other option is a rare GM/Isuzu alternator with a thru-drive for a vac pump used on small diesels, and driving the water pump off that. the overall length of the two together pushed the water pump up against the back of the starter, and the exhaust wont fit. Going belt drive alone, Mezier's water pump would require a 8" diameter pulley as Don says do not drive the pump faster than 7500, and keep it 1:1. plus I still need to remote plumb the thermostat.






since the pierburg pumps are PWM, and the second radiator is intended for when temps get above 160F only, cant get away from two pumps going electric or other. a single pierburg would need to be the larger CWA400 to get the flow and find an in-line thermostat in-stock with a different temp rating (they exist, however are not stocked) and I simply do not have room for the larger CWA400. I barely have room for the one CWA200.

to put it in perspective. think putting in an LS, 5-speed, all the systems, and a C4 IRS/IFS into something smaller than a golf cart. my car is the size of an MG Midget, however seats 4. that makes it just slightly longer than a Smart ForTwo, and shorter than the Smart ForFour

 

It looks like the Gen V stuff does have a removable cartridge, which is good. The LS pumps don't.

This was what I found:
https://www.holley.com/products/cool...g/parts/97-251

If the standard pump has a replacement cartridge, then this is a moot point.

 

The LS4 also had a replaceable pump in the manifold.

 

Well..... after scanning the waterpump..... and taking photorgraphs

confirmed, can easily get the Gen V waterpump to work with the belt drive by milling 17mm off the pads, trimming the alternator bracket off the manifold and pressing the pulley 2.5mm more onto the shaft, there just isnt enough room between the front of the block and the front sheetmetal with a radiator there.

the belt drive would require 3 idler pulleys, with one being a spring-loaded tensioner

so, I believe that reverting back to an earlier plan of a custom cross-over manifold and electric remote water pumps will need to be implemented. that also simplifies the belt drive to one idler/tensioner

 

That radiator position really makes it tough

 

Indeed!