I've done several web searches and so far come up dry. Does anyone know the long block weight for the GM/Buick 3.8L "3800" turbo as seen in GN's, T-types, etc? I'm speaking of the 1986-1989 model.

 

Hi: Not exactly sure of the weight of this enigine but I remember T-kay posting up about replacing a supercharged 3.8 l motor in a FWD GP with an LS1 and I think the weight was very close he said. I think the Ls1 was like 20-25 pounds lighter. I am assuming you want to know the weight so you can put an ls1 in a G-Body and know what springs to run in the car to keep the ride height stock. Global West lists 2 different part numbers on springs 1 for 442 and Monte SS and another for turbo regal, GN, GNX. The part number for the Eibach Pro Kit whick lowers the car slightly is the same number for all of the GBody cars. I would probably run the Clobal West Springs for a GN or GNX to keep the ride height stock. Maybe JohnB wiil post up he knows a lot about these cars.

 

Actually, my interest is intellectual at this point. I remember that now about T-kay, but the intercooler might add a bit, and the gen 1 3800's were a bit heavier than the gen 2's (around 10-20 lbs, I think), so the gen 3 3800's might be even lighter...

It stands to reason that since the Buick 3800 turbo longblock weighs more than the gen3 3800 supercharged, which weighs more than the LS1, that therefore it weighs a bit more than the LS1. (thanks for that!) Ah, but how much I wonder?

I figured to ask here because you engine swappers have to know these kinds of things. Should I maybe ask in another section?

 

Go Over There to Turbobuick.com. They have a swap section about putting these engines in other models. Somebody probably has already posted this.

 

Yes I do my man. With all of the accessories (including the headers, turbo, wiring harness and ECM) and tranny/convertor the LC2 turbo Buick motor weighed in at somethink like 662-lbs. If you want to e-mail me at jcarswel1@yahoo.com I can look at the weigh sheets when I get home. Cheers !!!

Jim C.

PS-The "3800" is different than the 3.8 that is in the GN's. I wish then would work but no such luck.

 

OK, I went back and searched the forums on Turbobuicks.com and this is what I came up with. I knew I had posted the weights there a while back. I am registered as "Long Duk Dong" on that board. Anyway, here is the link to that thread.

 

Very good info that you posted up. I thought that the LS1 would be lighter than the Turbo Buick. The LSX truck motors would be around 570 lbs then If you figure 90 pounds more than the aluminum block. The LT1 weights 66 lbs more than an LS1 from what I read so that would weight 547. If you figure 35 pounds more for the iron heads on the old GenII, or Gen1 engine then the small block would weigh 582. Maybe someone should check and verify this an post it in a sticky in this section along with the weights of the 4.3 and non turbo 3.8 motors. Thanks

 

Oh, just when I thought we had it!

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...+ls1+longblock

420 for the LC-2 turbo (did I get that right this time, Big Geek? )

481? 460? 440? for the LS1? Depends on who you ask, I guess.

Now how does that make sense with the 3800sc being MORE than the LS1, if the 3800 block is less than the LC-2 turbo?

soooo confused!

 

I've been told by a guy who has swapped numerous LS1's into S-10's that the fully dressed LS1 weighs 15lbs less than a fully dressed 4.3L out of an S-10. All told to me I have not seen it myself....... yet.

 

See, that's just adding to the confusion. The S-10's motor is the same block as the 3800, isn't it? (which is known to be lighter than the LC2 by a small margin)

This, and the LS1 longblock is supposed to be 390 lbs...

 

I've swapped in both into RX-7's and they seem to weigh about the same (GN and LS1 engine). Jim weighed them both with everything (accessories,wiring,ECM) and got the numbers he found.

If you put a lightweight starter on a GN engine (saves 10-12lbs), delete the a/c and p/s you can shave off some weight also. The stock a/c compressor is heavy on the GN!

Bang for the buck the GN setup is hard to beat... however a stock LS1 with cam, nitrous and good exhaust should go 10's. A GN engine with stock everything aside from good exhaust, chip, race gas should run high 11's. Add larger turbo/injectors/intercooler and guys have gone 10's. Better heads/cam and low 10's if not 9's are there. Stock shortblock won't last long at this point.

I emailed with a guy on here that made 1200 passes on his LS1 and 600 of them on nitrous launching off the line with it running low 10's. I think his nitrous solenoid went bad and ultimately killed the motor; however I know a GN engine would last that many passes set at full tilt. Maybe a few hundred. Stock block/cranks with billet caps/girdle are good to around 700-750hp. After that they are ticking time bombs. Unless you run high boost they aren't overly impressive... meaning 16psi low timing vs 22-24psi and high timing is almost like night and day with the GN engines. 5400rpm stock revs... built is about 6200rpm. Pretty much has to be an automatic.

I went LS1 for a reason... rev higher, easier to find parts to rebuilt it, anyone can build these things, $300 cam makes 50rwhp+, stock crank good for lots of power 1000hp+, cheap upgraded rods/pistons, better factory ECM/PCM, and T56. I got tired of the automatic and having to run high boost for good numbers. I know alchy injection is an option... but it is just another thing that can go wrong. The T56 rips and I like the simplicity of being n/a... with juice when I need it. I have traction problems even with R-compound tires out back right now on the street.

-Mark

 

Thanks Mark. The only solid fact that hasn't been demolished by all this disparate data is that whatever the answer is, they aren't too far off from each other in terms of weight.

What kind of power does the LC2 make in street trim, i.e. pump gas, reliable, repeatable, daily drivable setup? I'm talking stock block and replace whatever else you want.

In that kind of trim, LS1's can go a little over 500 at the flywheel with stock cubes, and with LS2 402's we're seeing low-mid 600's at the flywheel (although no idea how streetable). That's all NA of course. And that's with a decent, streetable power curve. From everything I've heard, the LC2 can do at LEAST that good, but I have no idea in terms of streetablility at that power level, or if that's at all possible with pump gas. Maybe you could clue me in?

(Of course, alky might push the advantage clearly to the LC2. Oh, if only N20 was as street legal as alky... )

Another reason I ask is because if a turbo'd LS1 weighs the same or less than an LC2, then I would go with the blown LS1.

 

If you can weld and make a turbo kit I would do an LS1 with the 6.0 truck manifolds and slap on a T-70 or so. You could reach the limits of a stock LS1 (600rwhp safely with stock pistons). If a Powerstroke aluminum intercooler will fit use it (with alum end tanks). This would definately weigh more than a GN setup. Probably 100-125lbs more.

The GN engine stock with alchy injection would make a car run low 12's/high 11's at around 3300lbs with good $200 exhaust and $75 custom chip, upgraded springs $60. On pump gas probably low 13's. Depends upon weight. Upgrade the injectors $250, turbo $700, chip $75, and intercooler ($200-800 depending upon if you can fab one up) and you could run low 11's if not high 10's really pushing it.

My LS1/RX-7 makes 500flywheel but that is with $2200 heads, $350 cam, $850 headers, $300 LS6 intake, and $200 30# injectors with $400 in tuning. Bang for the buck the GN would crush this when you account in the purchase of a stock LS1 motor also $2K-3K.

Buick GN engine will smoke the Buick3800 supercharged setup no problem with nearly any mods done to the supercharged setup.

If you only want to drag then the GN is a great setup. LS1 is versatile as I've done both and thrash it on the road race courses often with no hiccups.

Good luck,

Mark

 

Thanks for the info Mark.

Yeah, it's a tough choice. I figure if an engine swap to an LS7 is a possibility that I'm willing to consider, why not look at other engines? I'm really reluctant to do a turbo add to my LS1 on account of the added weight.

The question isn't if an LC2 can make 600-675 on pump gas at the flywheel. The question is: just what kind of power curve will it have? Will it be streetable or robust? Will that be getting into turbo-lag territory? Will it be with or without alky? What the @$%# will it weigh vs an LS1?!?

LOL!!!

 

The GN setup would be about 60#'s lighter than an n/a LS1. Larger the turbo.... bigger the lag... Bigger turbo higher requirement for sticky tires and your transmission (TH200-4R) at least going boom. Built TH200-4R and high stall convertor is an easy $3-4.5K.... yikes. Another reason I went LS1/T56. A GN engine can't economically be converted to a manual trans due to the BOP style bellhousing and only a Tremec TKO or T56 (both Chevy patterns) as the real options (custom bellhousing adapter, flywheel, etc). GN computer would go a little haywire without feedback from the TH200-4R as well as it provides engine input.

Add a turbo to the LS1 and you have increased the complexity and likelihood of problems as you know. Plus a gang load more weight up front.(turbo/intercooler/piping/downpipes/WG etc).

LS7 would be bank... consider a 402/LS2 instead with radical cam/heads and make more power than the LS7. Cheaper and more plentiful parts..... easy to replace broken schtuff.

Good luck...

 

60 lbs lighter? Hm, that's almost nixed by the heavier TH200. I don't have to worry about sticky tires as I'll be running it as a daily driver and in Drag Radial classes.

Thanks, I hadn't considered transmission woes. That would be a lot of extra $$$ if I couldn't use my existing T56. Looks like I'm looking at LS7 block with maybe not all that expensive titanium stuff... could get things done on a budget...

 

The 3800 is originally from a Buick design V8 that was sold to Rover. The 3800 is a skirted block.

A 4.3 is derived from a traditional SBC.

 

Oh, right now I remember! The 4.3 is the same as that generation of SBC but with two cylinders missing.