LS1 in a Delorean?
11-30-2005, 04:35 PM
#21
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An LS1 DeLorean would contain a favorite from my childhood (car) as well as a favorite from teen/adult (LS1).
Plus the LS1 would give it enough power so you would be able to open the doors while driving and take off the ground. <-- everyone had to do this at least once with hot wheels as a child.
Plus the LS1 would give it enough power so you would be able to open the doors while driving and take off the ground. <-- everyone had to do this at least once with hot wheels as a child.
12-01-2005, 10:16 PM
#22
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
Does the DMC also use the same Renault gearbox as the Esrpit? If so this will be a major issue as it struggles to handle the n/a 2.2 V4. But it's also the only gearbox that fitted in the Esprit. When Renault axed the gearbox Lotus had to discontinue production of the Esprit.
). I thought I remembered hearing they had someone else build a few for them as well though.
12-01-2005, 11:57 PM
#23
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I'm that guy whom Morgan was referring to who's done the research on what it'd take to make the DeLorean respectively fast.
First, I'll debunk some myths...
With a rear mounted engine/transaxle for a RWD car the torque is not unloaded on the frame. So, all the claims that the frame will twist or turn into a pretzel are just people who aren't as educated on how the physics actually work in a RWD Rear Engine car's chassis. The transmission's output is sent directly to the rear wheels and does not have any connection to the suspension or forward drive-shaft. In a Camaro, as torque is applied the rear starts to twist up and clock-wise, these forces transfer to the ladder bar, lower control arms and suspension and does put a load on the unibody/frame.
In a DeLorean or a Espirit, or other simularly designed car, the torque has no direct unloading point tied to the frame structure. Actually, what happens is as torque is applied and increases it causes the car to squat.
Simply, the transaxle is resisting torque twist, engine moves up and down, frame doesn’t experience direct loading from engine torque.
Next issue is weight distribution. The stock PRV6 engine weighs just a tad over 300lbs in it's full regailia. The DeLorean has a 35/65 weight balance. The front end can be skittish when pushed real hard. Any more weight in the rear is going to make it worse. It's best to get driving advice from rear-engined Porsche racers. There is a specific way to drive a car like this as compaired to a conventional forward engine car. The curb weight of a DeLorean with a full tank of gas is 2712lbs.
The Ecotec 4-cylinder weighs 307lbs, about the same weight as the PRV6 and the total dressed engine weight of a 2001 LS1 is 457.6 lbs. (208 kg) for an Auto car and 497.2 lbs (226 kg) for the manual version.
The stock DeLorean auto trans is a 3-spd and there are no performance upgrades available for it. The stock DeLorean 5-spd manual is claimed to be able to handle about 250-300hp and about 300ft/lbs if it's in prime condition.
The upgrade paths for the DeLorean transaxle are available from Derek Bell (www.bell-performance.co.uk/) and it will upgrade the transaxle or a Espirit UN1 box will allow it to handle 500hp.
You could also use a Porsche 930 transaxle (Scott @ Renegade Hybrids 866.498.2421
930 transaxle, tall gear, 4spd, 2.25, 1.30, 0.89, 0.63, Rebuilt core, shortened bell housing/shaft, ~$5k) Then you'll require: bellhousing adapter v8 $180
Pilot bearing $75
Throw-out bearing $160
Ring gear $160
Pressure plate $495
Stage 1 kevlar clutch (yellow), break in for 500miles $475
The stock DeLorean axles will bolt right upto the Porsche trans. They both share a common 6-bolt pattern.
On to electronics...
For a VSS you'll need to verify that with one revolution of the front driver's side wheel that the Lambda drive cable turns one rotation as well. If so, you can remove the Lambda counter and install your VSS (Painless Wiring makes them, also Street in Performance).
You'll need to upgrade the fuel pump to a higher output version. Apparently there is a version from the French car maker Alpine that works. You'll need to adapt the fuel lines to the LS fuel system.
You'll need to install a Park/Neutral safety switch. You'll need to mount your diagnostics connector somewhere. You'll need to install a Check Engine light. You'll need to tap into the Fan relay system. All other power taps can be made at the factory fuse box but I'd highley recommend either adding onto the factory one with a Painless or American Wire box, or going so far as to replace the whole stock fuse box with a newer, ATC-style.
Exhaust system will obviously be custom. Cooling system isn't too difficult. You'll need custom motor mounts. Might also have to clearance or redesign the rear crossmember.
You can also check out http://www.entermyworld.com/custom/index.html and click on "Custom D's" on the left and then goto "Lotus Conversion".
It was my conclusion that if I were to do a engine conversion, I'd go with the supercharged Ecotec engine and mod that to spit out 400hp or so. It's small, light, easy to work on, built like a tank and plentifull.
The company that did the Northstar conversion I believe only did one or two cars. The Northstar is not a good choice because the head bolts are screwed into sleeves in the block deck and they're notorious for loosening, and pulling and causing coolant leaks. The price was $25k for them to do the conversion for you.
You'll have to be sure your DeLorean is in top notch, updated condition before attempting any of this. The DeLorean has so many flaws that all should be addressed before trying to put more power through the car. Also, there are no known brake upgrades. The stock brakes are not vented. They have opposed two-piston calipers.
That's about all I can think of at 1am.
Any more questions?
First, I'll debunk some myths...
With a rear mounted engine/transaxle for a RWD car the torque is not unloaded on the frame. So, all the claims that the frame will twist or turn into a pretzel are just people who aren't as educated on how the physics actually work in a RWD Rear Engine car's chassis. The transmission's output is sent directly to the rear wheels and does not have any connection to the suspension or forward drive-shaft. In a Camaro, as torque is applied the rear starts to twist up and clock-wise, these forces transfer to the ladder bar, lower control arms and suspension and does put a load on the unibody/frame.
In a DeLorean or a Espirit, or other simularly designed car, the torque has no direct unloading point tied to the frame structure. Actually, what happens is as torque is applied and increases it causes the car to squat.
Simply, the transaxle is resisting torque twist, engine moves up and down, frame doesn’t experience direct loading from engine torque.
Next issue is weight distribution. The stock PRV6 engine weighs just a tad over 300lbs in it's full regailia. The DeLorean has a 35/65 weight balance. The front end can be skittish when pushed real hard. Any more weight in the rear is going to make it worse. It's best to get driving advice from rear-engined Porsche racers. There is a specific way to drive a car like this as compaired to a conventional forward engine car. The curb weight of a DeLorean with a full tank of gas is 2712lbs.
The Ecotec 4-cylinder weighs 307lbs, about the same weight as the PRV6 and the total dressed engine weight of a 2001 LS1 is 457.6 lbs. (208 kg) for an Auto car and 497.2 lbs (226 kg) for the manual version.
The stock DeLorean auto trans is a 3-spd and there are no performance upgrades available for it. The stock DeLorean 5-spd manual is claimed to be able to handle about 250-300hp and about 300ft/lbs if it's in prime condition.
The upgrade paths for the DeLorean transaxle are available from Derek Bell (www.bell-performance.co.uk/) and it will upgrade the transaxle or a Espirit UN1 box will allow it to handle 500hp.
You could also use a Porsche 930 transaxle (Scott @ Renegade Hybrids 866.498.2421
930 transaxle, tall gear, 4spd, 2.25, 1.30, 0.89, 0.63, Rebuilt core, shortened bell housing/shaft, ~$5k) Then you'll require: bellhousing adapter v8 $180
Pilot bearing $75
Throw-out bearing $160
Ring gear $160
Pressure plate $495
Stage 1 kevlar clutch (yellow), break in for 500miles $475
The stock DeLorean axles will bolt right upto the Porsche trans. They both share a common 6-bolt pattern.
On to electronics...
For a VSS you'll need to verify that with one revolution of the front driver's side wheel that the Lambda drive cable turns one rotation as well. If so, you can remove the Lambda counter and install your VSS (Painless Wiring makes them, also Street in Performance).
You'll need to upgrade the fuel pump to a higher output version. Apparently there is a version from the French car maker Alpine that works. You'll need to adapt the fuel lines to the LS fuel system.
You'll need to install a Park/Neutral safety switch. You'll need to mount your diagnostics connector somewhere. You'll need to install a Check Engine light. You'll need to tap into the Fan relay system. All other power taps can be made at the factory fuse box but I'd highley recommend either adding onto the factory one with a Painless or American Wire box, or going so far as to replace the whole stock fuse box with a newer, ATC-style.
Exhaust system will obviously be custom. Cooling system isn't too difficult. You'll need custom motor mounts. Might also have to clearance or redesign the rear crossmember.
You can also check out http://www.entermyworld.com/custom/index.html and click on "Custom D's" on the left and then goto "Lotus Conversion".
It was my conclusion that if I were to do a engine conversion, I'd go with the supercharged Ecotec engine and mod that to spit out 400hp or so. It's small, light, easy to work on, built like a tank and plentifull.
The company that did the Northstar conversion I believe only did one or two cars. The Northstar is not a good choice because the head bolts are screwed into sleeves in the block deck and they're notorious for loosening, and pulling and causing coolant leaks. The price was $25k for them to do the conversion for you.
You'll have to be sure your DeLorean is in top notch, updated condition before attempting any of this. The DeLorean has so many flaws that all should be addressed before trying to put more power through the car. Also, there are no known brake upgrades. The stock brakes are not vented. They have opposed two-piston calipers.
That's about all I can think of at 1am.
Any more questions?
12-05-2005, 08:08 PM
#25
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Saw a Delorean, parked with the Lotus group, at a car show in Las Vegas with the V8 Turbo Lotus engine in it. I believe it was a Porsche transaxle too. The guy said it took about 18 months to do the work and it looked really clean. 400hp in a Delorean!
