93zMan

Ok, so i work at a performance shop here locally. We took on a project,(which now consists of me not having my original vortec motor and transmission out of 98 silverado single cab). A guy is getting a turbo'd 408 put in his 99 z28. So we took his motor and were putting it in my truck. the original ls1. Im replacing rods, pistons. Getting the heads cnc'd, ported. etc etc. Also deciding to run a single turbo on this setup.

heres the twist..

All wheel drive. Im still hunting the rite way to do this. Im thinking maybe the driveline out of a older GMC Syclone.

What do you fella's think.....other than how retarded i am for trying this.

pist0lpete

iTrader: (3)

Well for the price of a Syclone or Typhoon you could probably build alot better setup. You might have better luck modifying a 4-wheel drive drivetrain to work better as an AWD. Might look into Escalades or Denalis I think those may have optional AWD

sierrac3_s2000

iTrader: (6)

You didn't say whether your truck was 2WD or 4WD currently. If it is 2WD then you would have to convert your front suspension with the 4WD components. Then use a AWD transfer case instead of the 4WD transfer case. I don't imagine it will be straight bolt in but you should be able to make it work with some fabrication. I would look for a complete trans and AWD transfer case from a Denali or Escalde. The Denali Trucks have the same setup as well. I am sure you will have to make some custom lenght driveshafts as well. Just beware, lots of power (LSx), and lots of traction (AWD), means lots of broken transmissions. If you build it get your trans beefed up.

'JustDreamin'

Setting it up for AWD is not that crazy an idea.....Very similar to the truck I'm doing, only up a body size.

1st things first....Is the truck 4wd? I can't speak for the NBS pickups, but the S10's and OBS pickups use a completely different frame between 2wd & 4wd. I expect GM did the same thing with your truck. Which would mean that the front suspension doesn't interchange at all. So, if you're truck is currently 2wd, either give up your AWD dreams or plan on swapping to a 4wd frame.

2nd, pick your transmission. Choose very carefully. As previously mentioned, Big Power + Lots of Traction (AWD) = Broken 4L60E's. I would strongly suggest a 4L80E or a Turbo 400 (for strip only applications). Anything less and you'll be tearing it apart regularly (I'd bet every 6 months with an LS1 & Turbo). And a well built 80E should cost you less than a completely built 60E (and be more durable to boot) especially after the 3rd rebuild of your 60E.

Then you're down to figuring out transfer cases. For AWD tranfer cases you don't have that many options. I can only think of four possibilities (and one isn't AWD).

1.) BW 4472 AWD viscous coupling transfer case, used in Typhoon, Syclone, Bravada to '97, and AWD Astro to '98. Fairly stout piece, completely mechanical. Will require a custom transmission output shaft with 27 splines, and adapter plate, both of which are available from a couple of sources. Nobody has an official torque rating, but guestimates are of about 1500 ft-lbs. I think its higher, since there are a number of 9 and 10 second Sy's and Ty's, and to get to those kinds of numbers, you've got to be putting down some serious power.

2.) NV149 AWD viscous coupling transfer case, used in Silverado SS's. Again completely mechanical, stout (just don't do dyno runs without the front shaft or you will toast the viscous coupling). Will also need the custom 27 spline transmission output shaft and adapter plate, but again, parts are available. Torque rating should be available on New Venture's website. Should be a heavier duty tranfer case than the BW4472. May also be more expensive, depending upon where you source it.

3.) NV 136 / 246 hybrid. This is the transfer case I'm using in my conversion. My 1999 Bravada is set up for Autotrak AWD, which is basically electronically engaged 4wd. I had a custom t-case built by Rockland Standard Gear. Basically its the 246 input shaft (32 spline to match the trans), 246 clutch pack (extra plates), and 246 chain (wider than the 136) in a 136 case with 136 sensors & motor. The electronics in my truck shouldn't know its not a NV136 and therefore everything will play nice. Down side is its not truely AWD (but darn close) and the electronics integration would not be fun in a custom application. Upside is that it should get slightly better gas mileage (less drag from front axle in theory) and for my application was easy. Also, the NV246 is rated for alot of power (GVW's to 8600lbs, torque rating of 2300 ft-lbs) so I won't be breaking it.

4.) Run a normal 4wd box in 4hi (like the NV242). This is what Parish8 is doing on his truck. I can't say its the best idea, since the front and rear axles aren't allowed to run at different speeds (which they need to be for low speed tight turning maneuvers like pulling into or out of a parking space) but it may be the easiest and most durable solution.

Those are the only 4 AWD solutions that I come up with that bolt readily to either the 4L60E or (preferrably) the 80E. There are other AWD tcases out there (most of them are Jeep applications) that could be made to work, but the fun would be doing the engineering / research / machining to make it work. That would also be where the expense is.

I'd suggest surfing SyTy.net and doing some reading in the drivetrain section. Those guys have broken a fair number of "Built" 700R4's with turbo'd V6's (some making some very serious power (like nearly 1000 hp)). General consensus is for a 10 second or faster Sy or Ty, you'll want the 80E (or a Turbo 400 if its a race only truck). In the case of your pickup, which will probably weigh 1000lbs more, you'll probably need the 80E in a much slower truck (like 12 seconds) because of the extra beating it'll take from the weight.


My Bravada is in the process of getting a 6.0 & 80E. I'm not willing to put 2 60E's in before I step up to the 80E. There's a reason that the 80E is the only trans that GM puts behind the 6.0L in 2500 pickups & vans. Don't ask me to explain the logic behind the 4L65E in the SS's, Tahoe's, Denali's, and Escalades, because I don't see any. Another reason I chose the 80E is that I KNOW I will be using this truck for towing my boat (which is probably only 4000lbs including trailer) and I don't think the 60E would be up for 8000+ lbs and 350 to 400 hp.

Sorry for the book, hope its useful info.

'JustDreamin'

CHarris

iTrader: (5)

Investigate the H2 transfer case (full time 4wd) and front diff. It is tougher than the one in the Escalade and the front diff is too. There's a turbo escalade from livernois that broke the front diff. With the lighter weight of your truck and the H2 components (make sure and do a fully built 4L65) you'll do fine. Hell I was running 13.86 at 6800lbs in mine and had no trans issues. Take off 2000 lbs for your truck and you can see the timeslips drop!

ls1_chevelle

iTrader: (9)

Old news lol. Just find a 4wd truck and go from there. Or find a t-case from a Silverado SS and mate the 2 together...

-Matt

jimmyp

iTrader: (1)

dont bother trying to adapt syclone parts when you have all the stuff you need available to bolt right in.

93zMan

its 2wd. ive been studying. 1) turbo 400's arent just for strip. Thats first off. 2) Ive gave up on the syclone thing, leaning more towards just pulling out the awd system from a denali or something. I have the 4l60 being built.

anymore input

'JustDreamin'

So, have you figured out if you have to change frames?
I dunno about that, especially with gas at $3 a gallon. How about $5 a gallon, which is what the media says we're going to (if you listen to them?)
Have fun. It still doesn't significantly change your options. There are only a couple of AWD systems that GM has used, and whether you get it out of a Denali or a Silvy SS doesn't really matter that much.
Good luck. I hope you found a transmission shop who:
1.) Really knows what they're doing.
2.) Is willing to stand behind their warranty when it breaks.
3.) Understands that you're going to put big power in front of it with lots of traction and only uses the best parts. BTW, it should cost you some serious coin for a properly built transmission (not just one they slapped together using a bunch of used parts & pieces they had laying around).

'JustDreamin'

93zMan

Thanks for the input, ive gotten taken care of just dreamin

ss496

iTrader: (7)

you could use a t-case from an awd astro and 4wd parts from a 88-98 silverado

'JustDreamin'

That Tcase is the BW4472, also used in the Syclone, Typhoon, and Bravada (see above)

Bo185

The OBS 2wd can't be converted to 4wd the frames are different unless your looking to to a Soild axle swap.

I would look for a NBS 4wd 4.8 truck with high miles to put the engine in it, it'll be cheaper than the OBS Gen III swap! Sell you truck ot trade. The OBS swap get expensive when the 99 up NBS trucks are getting cheape by the day.


Unless less you wan't the AWD (SS transfer case) all the time, just use 4 wheel high to lunch the truck at the track.