Fuel pump - External or Internal - Pros, Cons??
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Area
Fuel pump - External or Internal - Pros, Cons?? I'm buying all my parts for my LS1 retrofit into my 78 Z28 and I'm trying to figure out what is the best route to go for a street car, nothing fancy. I don't have fuel injection as it is right now, so to prepare my car COMPLETELY for EFI it's alot of work. Prepping the tank and installing an internal pump is costing me almost $600 if the figures are correct. This is from Rock Valley prepping the tank for $280 I believe, + $200 for the fuel pump, + like $60 for the vette filter + $$$ for the line and fittings.
Or is it better to sump it, and do an external ??
I don't know if an internal pump is better or not.
I want to know what some of you think and costs for this.
My car is being sent to a shop for the install and I want to do this the right way, but if it doesn't matter either way, I'd rather go the cheaper route if it's not really a major performance difference.
I mean.....my current setup is a Gen I 350 with an external pump.
Or is it better to sump it, and do an external ??
I don't know if an internal pump is better or not.
I want to know what some of you think and costs for this.
My car is being sent to a shop for the install and I want to do this the right way, but if it doesn't matter either way, I'd rather go the cheaper route if it's not really a major performance difference.
I mean.....my current setup is a Gen I 350 with an external pump.
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 439
Likes: 26
From: IA
Get the kit from Tanks Inc, thats what I'm doing. I currently have an external pump and i hate it! Its loud and very very annoying. The Tanks Inc kit looks like the way to go, plus its only $225 and includes a hi-flo pump.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 676
Likes: 0
From: In a cave
One con I can come up with for an internal pump is that when it goes out, you have to drop the tank just to get to it. To me, that's a pain. I'd rather go with an external as I could live with the noise.
external- you can hear it.. easier to swap out in a failure, cheaper.
internal, quieter, less prone to failure due to overheating, but you gotta either cut a window in your floor or drop the tank if there's a problem..
internal, quieter, less prone to failure due to overheating, but you gotta either cut a window in your floor or drop the tank if there's a problem..
One key thing to think about.. Street = Laws.. Slumping a tank for the street many not be legal in your area and having he exposes slumped line can be a safety factor for the local Law officers.. !?
If you go external, slumping the tank will be needed anyway to keep the pump from staving or you will have to keep the tank at lease about a 1/4 tank full.
So, if your taking a street car here... go internal with the Tanks Inc and the corvette filter/regulator (AC/Delco GF-822) as the cheapest route as it uses AC/Delco pumps that you can get anywhere you travel. You can also try using a tank from a donner car that will fit yours with little modifications that is already setup for EFI and Baffled. as a exsample, I put a 95 Impala tank in my 71 chevelle.
A AC/Delco (Vettes and F-body) pumps can handle up to 400+hp and if you want, use the Walbro pump for high engine output above the 400+ mark.
Yeah.. it is a bummer if they fail and you have to drop the tank. but how offen does that happen for a street rated car ?
If you go external, slumping the tank will be needed anyway to keep the pump from staving or you will have to keep the tank at lease about a 1/4 tank full.
So, if your taking a street car here... go internal with the Tanks Inc and the corvette filter/regulator (AC/Delco GF-822) as the cheapest route as it uses AC/Delco pumps that you can get anywhere you travel. You can also try using a tank from a donner car that will fit yours with little modifications that is already setup for EFI and Baffled. as a exsample, I put a 95 Impala tank in my 71 chevelle.
A AC/Delco (Vettes and F-body) pumps can handle up to 400+hp and if you want, use the Walbro pump for high engine output above the 400+ mark.
Yeah.. it is a bummer if they fail and you have to drop the tank. but how offen does that happen for a street rated car ?
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 274
Likes: 4
From: Kansas City, MO
Cheap Cheap Cheap... I find it interesting guys state they want to do it right but they don't want to spend the money. One guy on this site got all the stuff from donar cars and made all the modifications himself with the exception of the PCM reprogram to make it work with his swap. He also did it in record time and inexpensively.
He used a tank from the same year swap vehicle that has EFI and used a Fbody intank pump for the presure. He used all the EFI and engine stuff from the donor engine car. If you want to scavenge junk yards you can find just about anything an make it work.
I personally think an intank pump is the better way to go as the fuel keeps it cool. I don't usually design or build expecting failure to happen at any moment with the fear that if I go a block from the house the car will fail, so if and when the intank pump fails I will just fix it. It should last a long time.
If you do your research up front you can come up with a plan on how to solve every issue that needs to be solved and then execute the plan. I did my homework and had a solution for every aspect of the swap and didn't have any dollar shock as I had alread learned the cost and collected all the parts first then did the swap. The only reason it took me so long was I had a hard time making time to work on the project with daily life getting in the way.
So Plan Plan Plan, learn all you can about how you are going to build the total car first then execute the plan.
Sorry, off on a tangent on this one, and I don't mean to lecture, I just wanted to give a good approach to this type of approach as it made my swap effortless.
He used a tank from the same year swap vehicle that has EFI and used a Fbody intank pump for the presure. He used all the EFI and engine stuff from the donor engine car. If you want to scavenge junk yards you can find just about anything an make it work.
I personally think an intank pump is the better way to go as the fuel keeps it cool. I don't usually design or build expecting failure to happen at any moment with the fear that if I go a block from the house the car will fail, so if and when the intank pump fails I will just fix it. It should last a long time.
If you do your research up front you can come up with a plan on how to solve every issue that needs to be solved and then execute the plan. I did my homework and had a solution for every aspect of the swap and didn't have any dollar shock as I had alread learned the cost and collected all the parts first then did the swap. The only reason it took me so long was I had a hard time making time to work on the project with daily life getting in the way.
So Plan Plan Plan, learn all you can about how you are going to build the total car first then execute the plan.
Sorry, off on a tangent on this one, and I don't mean to lecture, I just wanted to give a good approach to this type of approach as it made my swap effortless.
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 426
Likes: 4
From: Austin, TX
I have had both, and would never run an external pump again! They are noisy, overheat easily, and tend to starve for fuel often which leads to the first 2 problems. I build cars that there is no GM EFI tanks that will fit, but I now just bite the bullet and buy a Rock Valley stainless tank when I build a car. They are a little expensive, but they are baffled well, and come ready to run with the pump installed. They work well, and are very quiet. I take my car hundreds of miles away from home, and I need a car that is reliable and can make it home without being loaded on a trailer. Some of my past cars with external pumps, could not be trusted that far from home! Also, as someone else pointed out, You really do not want to run a sumped tank on the street due to safety concerns.
Regards, John McGraw
Regards, John McGraw
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Area
Originally Posted by jdperk-86elco
I find it interesting guys state they want to do it right but they don't want to spend the money.
I said I want to do it right, but I'm not sure which is the better route.
IF they both performed the same I said I'd like to go the cheaper route.
Mind you I said PERFORMANCE first.
Okay, so anyone got a link for this Tanks Inc setup ??
I'm going to call Rock Valley and get a price on a SS Tank with pump ready to go. How much is a SS Tank with a pump in it already?
Originally Posted by korndawg
Get the kit from Tanks Inc, thats what I'm doing. I currently have an external pump and i hate it! Its loud and very very annoying. The Tanks Inc kit looks like the way to go, plus its only $225 and includes a hi-flo pump.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Here is a link to their fuel pump. It can be adapted to almost any tank that is at least 7 inches deep. It comes with the baffle tray to keep fuel around the pick up. I bought a tank from them as well, could not find one for my car, but found one of theirs that had the right dimensions and adapted it. Their tanks come already baffled and ready for the fuel pump which really makes it easy.
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...prod/prd84.htm
There are a number of people who have adapted their existing tank. Here is a link to the 67-69 Camaro FAQ showing how Schitzo did his for his 71 Camaro which should be real similar to yours:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....6&postcount=14
The thing about conversions is you can not expect to always find stuff that just bolts in, some times ya gotta make it fit. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it! LOL
Good luck with your swap
Pat
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...prod/prd84.htm
There are a number of people who have adapted their existing tank. Here is a link to the 67-69 Camaro FAQ showing how Schitzo did his for his 71 Camaro which should be real similar to yours:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....6&postcount=14
The thing about conversions is you can not expect to always find stuff that just bolts in, some times ya gotta make it fit. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it! LOL
Good luck with your swap
Pat
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 274
Likes: 4
From: Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted by Aceshigh
Ah see, I didn't say that, you're twisting my words.
I said I want to do it right, but I'm not sure which is the better route.
IF they both performed the same I said I'd like to go the cheaper route.
Mind you I said PERFORMANCE first.
I said I want to do it right, but I'm not sure which is the better route.
IF they both performed the same I said I'd like to go the cheaper route.
Mind you I said PERFORMANCE first.
I always find it better to not re-invent the wheel so to speak, that if someone already has the part it would be less expensive to just buy the part then try to build one yourself. Time and money ya know, how much is your time worth.
I have a walbro intank pump and it has a high pitch wine. It isn't as bad with a full tank but I can still hear it. It works great but just has the wine. I have been told that the GM Fbody pump isn't as noisy.
definetly do not go external.......the pumps give a high pitch whine which will drive you insane.....hell there are some internal pumps which you can still hear
in general the external pump has more against it than an internal pump
The tanks inc kit I used is great for a tank deeper than what mine had....however, I know the late second gens have a different shaped tank which might actually work to your advantage
the rock valley is not a bad option considering the hassles you save yourself and the quality you get.
in general the external pump has more against it than an internal pump
The tanks inc kit I used is great for a tank deeper than what mine had....however, I know the late second gens have a different shaped tank which might actually work to your advantage
the rock valley is not a bad option considering the hassles you save yourself and the quality you get.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,148
Likes: 12
From: Downers Grove, IL
The f-body pump is dead quiet, sounds like a stocker 
. I have also heard that the pump form a 96-98 vortec 350 suburban will also work. I had to replace one in a suburban after I did my swap and externally it looks exactly the same except that there is no second output for the venturi system like in a camaro. If I have to replace my pump ever I will try putting in a suburban pump since then I will not need to cap the second output.
. I have also heard that the pump form a 96-98 vortec 350 suburban will also work. I had to replace one in a suburban after I did my swap and externally it looks exactly the same except that there is no second output for the venturi system like in a camaro. If I have to replace my pump ever I will try putting in a suburban pump since then I will not need to cap the second output. 