A PM I got last night reminded me I haven't updated this forum on my progress in a long time. Mostly I've been updating the pro-touring forum because the LS1 portion of my project got back-burnered after we pulled the old engine and found how many things the idiot restoration shop either didn't do or screwed up.

You can see some of the progress on my website: http://www.ls1bandit.com/ though I've been a little recalcitrant in putting as much info as I want there.
Here's the executive summary of status. I figured out that I needed to replace pretty much all of the suspension, steering and brakes in addition to the LS1+T56 conversion. Here's what it looked like after the restoration shop was done. Looks quite pretty, but that's only on the outside (and interior) - once you get deep into the guts, it's a mess.



Then we pulled it apart until it looked like this:



And



Then I sent off the following to be blasted and powdercoated: subframe, lower control arms, sway bars, spindles, radiator support, wheel wells, front bumper and supports. Possibly more, but that's all I remember. You can see pictures after they came back here: http://www.ls1bandit.com/g2_embed/g2...g2_itemId=1618

Then we got the front end back together enough that it's rollable. It now has new upper control arms, all new steering linkages, new steering box, new springs, new shocks, new solid body bushings, and new brakes. So now it looks like this:



And more pictures here: http://www.ls1bandit.com/g2_embed/g2...g2_itemId=1701

Now that it's rollable again, we can roll it over to the body shop (not the old idiot - a new, very good guy) and have the firewall sanded and painted.

Also, my new wheels just came in. They are Work VS-XX's (gold version) custom-built in Japan according to my specs:



I had to take all the measurements based on the old suspension, steering and brakes, so it was a bit of a gamble. The jury is still out on whether I got it right. On the front, I was worried that the wilwood hub would extend too far for the design of the rim. Measurements indicated it should *just* barely fit, but it was close enough that Works said they wouldn't guarantee the wheel. Fortunately it turns out the measurements were right-on. It just fits.

The rim is pretty close to the steering linkage since I couldn't get exactly the back-spacing I wanted (it ended up at 5.68" and I wanted 5.5"). I think it'll be OK, but I'd be curious if anyone has input. Here are a couple photos. I know they're not the best angles, but hopefully you get the idea.







The more befuddling issue is the rear wheels. I'm not quite sure what happened since I took those measurements at least a half-dozen times in at least 3 different ways. The measurements came out basically the same as what other 2nd gen'ers are using. 5.75" backspacing on a 10.5" rim. However when I put the rim on, it extended beyond the fender a fair bit, so once the tire is on it's going to be really far out. I did the test-fit really quickly, so I might not have gotten it on right (though that's kinda hard to screw up ...). Also, this time the car was jacked up from the side, whereas when I did the initial measurements I had the jack under the differential. But I can't imagine that with a solid axle it should make much of a difference. I'm going to go back and do some more checks in a bit.

Next week I should have the firewall done. Then we might start the LS1 conversion, or we might finish off the brakes and suspension (still need to do rear springs, shocks and brakes) and the new fuel tank.

And that's the (not so) short version of the status.

 

Who did you get the wheels through? Looks good. Keep us posted.

 

I got the wheels through autornd.com. There aren't too many distributors in the US and in an amazing coincidence autornd is located about 10 minutes from where I work! These wheels look *awesome* on the black SE. I got the idea from another guy. His car looks incredible. The wheels are freakin' expensive (I got a special deal and I still paid $2200 inc tax). But after seeing the picture of his car, there was no way I could stand to put anything else on.

 

Looks great!

 

I remember seeing that car at synergy a couple months back.

The work's look really nice.. I've always had something for the bandit TA's.

 

how much did it cost to get your subframe blasted and coated? also where did you get those upper control arms and how much? alsoare you just going to run your stock lower control arms or can you find tubular lowers. what is the benefit of running tubular uppers other than adjustability som weight savings.

 

I got a somewhat special deal based on a number of factors so I'm reluctant to post publicly. If you really want to know send me a PM. Also, I had a whole pile of parts done: subframe, front/rear sway bars, lower control arms, wheel wells, front bumper and supports and radiator support.

They're part of the "stage 1 kit" from Savitske Classic and Custom: http://www.scandc.com/ (hopefully it's OK to post that even though they're not a sponsor, cuz I don't think there's any directly competing sponsors). The combination of these UCA's and their tall lower ball joint gives better camber, caster, roll center and bumpsteer (note that their normal stage 1 has a tall upper ball joint, but that's because it's easier for most people - the tall lower ball joint is better because of improved bumpsteer and a 1/2" drop in ride height). And the SC&C kit comes with greasable race bushings which give a much more predictable response in corners. Rubber is soft and poly binds (non-linear results).

There certainly are tubular LCA's available from a couple sources. However there's no real performance advantage except shaving a couple pounds. IMHO it's mostly bling points. Now if you went to a coil-over system you'd need to replace the LCA's and thus it would make sense to move to tubular at that time.

One thing I did do is replace the LCA bushings with del-a-lum bushings. Those things are awesome, though pricey. But compared to everything else in my project, they're a small drop in the bucket.

Lots. As I said earlier, it has a big impact on the geometry (especially when combined with a different ball joint) and the weight savings is definitely nice.

Oh, and for any 1st gen'ers that are curious - the 2nd gen'ers don't have to do the g-mod. We're already set there. And the 2nd gens already have plenty sufficient sway bars so no need to upgrade those. Adding poly bushings is a definite bonus though ....

I put some of the info on my suspension choices on my web page. I'm hoping to add more, and also put info on the steering and brakes. Too much stuff to do! Anyway, here's what I have so far on my suspension page:

http://www.ls1bandit.com/ls1b/suspension/suspension.php

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that if you've got the $$, SC&C teamed up with ATS (sponsor -->) to make the "AFX" package which is a combination of the SC&C stage 1 kit and the ATS spindles. Totally bitchin' combo from what I hear. Everyone just raves about it. Of course just about everything Tyler does is good!

Oh, and yes the car is at Synergy (sponsor -->) right now.

 

Sorry to post so many responses to myself.... one other thing to note is that the steering box you see there is from ATS. It's a fast-ratio box valved like rack-and-pinion and hand rebuilt by one of the top steering guys in the industry. And it's lighter than original. Cool stuff.

 

Looking good .

David

 

What work is Synergy doing on the car?

I saw her the other day when dropping off some stuff there. Awesome looking car.

How was dealing with autoRnD? I have met those guys a few times and am curious how your timeline/customer service/ etc was.

 

ok so i tried to go on the link to ats to get some prices. it just said the site was coming soon. i have heard a lot of good things about tyler at ats. i would like to do business with him but i am not yet ready to make the purchases. i don't want to waste his time when i can't buy just yet and it sounds like the people from the forums keep him pretty busy. i am interested in that afx kit you were talking about. is there anyway i can get some info on it as far as pricing and such with out calling him and bugging him. one more question is why did you decide not to go with the coil overs and lca?

 

They're doing all the "mechanics". The shop next door is handling the painting and they did some of the disassembly. But synergy is basically doing all of the suspension, steering, brakes and ls1 conversion. So far they've been great to work with and seem to be doing good work. Since they're not really 2nd gen-savvy (except one of the guys has a 71 t/a that he's rebuilt), and never did a conversion before, I did quite a lot of research & legwork (with lots of help here!) and I bought all of the parts. So basically they're doing all of the labor portion. I wish I had the time, space and tools to do it myself but I don't.
Thanks! It'll look even better once it's finished.
They were extremely attentive as we were trying to figure out the dimensions for the rims. They spent many hours with me going over the measurements, comparing to what Work can build, etc.

The timeline was quite long in getting the rims, but that wasn't their fault. All the time was on Work's side since they had to custom build them and ship them (on a very slow boat it seems) from Japan to here.

The only issues I have right now are the actual rim fitment, and it's not clear what's going on there. I stopped by today to get the rims and take them back up to Synergy to do a more thorough sizing, but they were closed. It's a 2 hour round-trip for me (when I'm not going there from work), so that was quite a wasted trip. But so far that's about it.

 

Yeah, lots of people bug him periodically about that. But he's up to his eyeballs in projects and work, so it's hard to find time to work on the website.

The AFX info can be found on SC&C's site:

http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm#streetcompafx

As you can see it's a bit $$, but the guys on pro-touring that have tried it really love it, especially for racing/auto-crossing.
Tyler's a nice guy, and he always seemed willing to chat on the phone with me even if I wasn't sure I was going to buy anything. I'd say if you have questions, don't be afraid to call and ask him.
For me it was simply a cost/benefit analysis. Many people get the coilovers because it's an easy way to drop ride height. My ride-height is dropping plenty with all the changes I'm making. I'm kinda worried it's going to be *too* low. The real advantage to the coil-overs is adjustability. The QA1 shocks I have are adjustable, so can adjust most of what I need in terms of ride quality except the ride height. I don't really envision a strong need to adjust ride height. It would be nice to get a better balance between street/track, but I tried to be honest with myself and say that I probably won't be at the track very often even though I'd really like to do a lot of track time. I also heard a few vague references to them not being as durable as a standard spring/shock pair and getting some strange non-linear results at the cornering extremes, but I can't find any of those comments right now.

So it would've meant a lot of extra $$ with very little benefit. That money can be better spent on heads&cam. Actually, I used the savings to splurge for the awesome steering box from ATS which will have a drastically greater impact on performance for me. It also helped fund the new fuel tank I got which was OMG $$ (custom stainless steel, intank pump with baffles and other goodies) plus the t/a's around my year have an oddly shaped tank which apparently is more expensive to build - all 3 shops I talked to quoted almost $300 more for my tank than most other tanks. And the fact that it's "$300 more" should give you some idea of how $$ the tank is.

 

That looks great and it's nice to see proper engineering going into it!!

Two very minor points about the rims. Looks like you'll need stick-in wheel weights on the back of the rims to keep the "pound onto the rim" weights from hitting the tie-rod end (done that one). Also, this may not really apply but the NASCAR folks found out that a brake rotor and caliper assembly very close to the rim can put enough heat into the tire to melt it off the rim, but then they're doing some MAJOR braking (Watkins Glen, Sonoma) to get it that hot. You might want to look into some brake ducting to help ensure that doesn't occur if you're going to be using the brakes very hard.

Great photos, by the way!

 

Thanks! I can't tell you how much time I spent researching this project to figure out how to "do it right". In addition to all the books I went through, the search button in this forum and the pro-touring forum provide some amazing results if you're patient enough to look through it all.
Thanks for the info - I'll look into that.
Are you basing that on the left front wheel? If so - that's my old 15" rim. I didn't even think it would fit over the brakes. It's just there to make the car rollable. The new rims are 17" and there's a fair bit of clearance - at least by my judgement - I'm not sure what you consider "close".

 

Under 1/2" would be close. I looked at the gallery and with the stock rims you have plenty of room f or the caliper. 18" rims would give even more.

My new 18" rims ended up within 1/4" of the tie-rod end and hit normal pound-onto-the-rim wheel weights, but paste-on weights alleviated the problem. This on an '87 Mercedes.

Yours has plenty of room with the stock rims.

To quote Gilda Radner - Never Mind!.

 

great looking car, what are you doing with the shaker?

 

Interesting that this seems to be the most often asked question when I talk about the swap.

The answer is I'm not sure yet. I have 3 options:

1) Mount the shaker to the hood (boring, but easy)
2) Find a way to mount the shaker to the LS1, with an easy way to pull it off if I need to get at something underneath it.
3) Do 2) and open up the scoop, put an air filter below it and pipe it to the throttle body for cold air.

I'm leaning towards 2). I just plain like it when it shakes with the engine.

The thing with 3) is that I think that with all the bends I'd need to make to get from the TB to the shaker, the turbulence would cause air restriction and take away the benefits of the cooler air (cooler than the fender, which is where I'm thinking right now). Plus I'd probably also have to look at ways to protect the scoop intake during inclement weather, etc. There are a couple solutions to that on the market, but none are very appealing to me.

Soooo .... probably 2). Now there's another guy here (oldschoolformula) who has opted for 3). He's already mocked up how it's going to go. You can either ask him directly for the info or I can forward what he posted on another forum.

 

Dunno if it crossed your mind or if u even like it, but I am planning a LSx swap into an 79-91 TA and was just going to use the 80-81 "Turbo" bump hood......no need to worry about the shaker scoop that way. I know there is no cold air induction that way but it solves most of the other problems........

There is a guy with a twin turbo LS6 77-79 TA who did that and it looks rockin.

Just a thought.