67rsss

iTrader: (4)

As promised, here is the list of Summit part numbers for the fluid systems. Some of this stuff we already have, so I just added numbers similiar to what we have. This setup assumes you already have the fuel rail to frame rail hose, and the S&P Corvette Fuel Filter Regulator assembly. The only fitting (s) unidentified are for the actual power steering pump, but I will add that later. I am listing numbers for using aluminum for the hardline under the car, change the tube adapter accordingly if you are using steel.

Summit Part Number /Each /Description /Total
EAR-100034ERL $13.39 1 Aluminum Fuel line, 3/8in Diameter, 10ft. $13.39 Hardline for fuel
EAR-922106ERL $12.25 2 Fitting 90 deg, -6AN (m) to 1/4NPT (m) $24.50 In tank pump adapters
GAR-J9003 $6.99 1 Fitting, Straight, 5/8 Nipple to 1/2in (m) NPT $6.99 Heater fittings
GAR-J9004 $6.99 1 Fitting, Straight, 5/8 Nipple to 3/8in (m) NPT $6.99 Heater fittings
RUS-620421 $12.95 3 Fitting, Hose end, 90 Degree, Power steering -6AN $38.85 Power steering
RUS-632080 $62.88 1 Hose, Proflex, -6AN, 15ft $62.88 Fuel Hose
RUS-632600 $18.88 2 Hose, Powerflex, -6AN, 3ft $37.76 Power steering hose
SUM-2200077B $7.95 2 Fitting, Hose End, Tube adapter, 3/8 to -6AN (m) $15.90 Hardline fittings
SUM-221301 $4.95 6 Fitting, Hose end, -6AN (f) $29.70 Fuel fittings
SUM-G1881 $8.95 1 Clamps, Hose, 0.375 in $8.95 Hose Mount Clamps
SUM-G3123 $5.95 1 NPT to Nipple, 5/16in to 1/4 NPT (m), set of 3 $5.95 Steam fitting

It doesn't line up nice here, sorry about that....

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Oh, and for the radiator hoses, we ordered the following from Summit:
GTR-61609 Upper
GTR-61099 Lower
We will see how well they fit in a few weeks.

And before we get too much flack on the aluminium tubing, that is what is there now, and I am modifying it to fit. We will be ordering a new stainless line and cutting to fit with flare on fittings (37*) after we have everything working. I only want to modify a $100 line once.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Forgot to list the adapter for the power steering gear. They need to be steel, not aluminium.

11/16 INV Flare to -6AN AER-FBM2965
5/8 Flare to -6AN AER-FBM2964

Should know what the power steering pump is tomorow.

cryker

This thread/documentary is great! Thank you and keep up the good work!

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Sorry that it has been a while since updating. We had a family emergency, and have only just gotten home early this morning. We did receive the engine and trans, and the cable X last monday. We are a week behind, but should start to show some progress over the next week. We need to get the engine on a stand and pull the pan. We want to get our cores (oilpan and MAF) sent off, as well as get the harness out to Speartech. We do have the wrong EGR plate from S&P, and having the 02, we are figuring out what is what on the topend. A lot of emmisions stuff, and it will be documented. As far as drawings, I am happy to send them out as larger JPG, TIF, or for those that have it, VISIO or EAGLE (the Cadsoft version). When this project is done, we hope to have source, price, and part number (where available) for everything it took to do this swap. THere are definately ways to spend a lot more or a lot less, and this is by no means a definative manual, just a listing of what we did, and what worked, and what didn't.

shifty`

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, very informative, and very dangerous for your wallet because you'll be really tempted to blow money on some of the more overpriced stuff there!

Damnit if that guy doesn't talk in circles, and man, I worry he's gonna have a heartattack in the next couple of years or lose a lung in the near future with all his hackin, weezin and throat clearing! Badass cars and lots of little gems of info buried here and there.

I will give a couple of points of advice to you on your swap, after my experience, as I should be firing up the first time, and I just finished my fuel lines and other stuff:

Braided fuel lines are stupid-easy to make. I was so worried about making my own, but now that I made mine (see last page of buildup thread in my link for a small pic), I am kicking the **** out of myself for procrastinating so long on this one. Tips: Go to the local Ace/Lowes/HomeDepot and get a roll of fiberglass tape (or any other tape with threads through it). Mark the length of your hose. Wrap a single run of tape around the mark where you mark is in the middle of the tape. Take a cutting wheel (I used a dremel, you can use a sharp chisel and hammer also) and cut the hose at the middle of the tape where your mark should be - the tape will keep the braids from flaring out on both newly exposed/cut ends; if they flare out, you can't get the fitting on. Once done, take your fitting, separate the two halves, take the one end, remove the tape from the fitting, and screw the fitting end onto the line until you see the end of the hose at the end of the fitting. Once there, mark the braided line where it meets the fitting so you can make sure when you tighten the other end of the fitting on, there is no slip-out of the hose. Easy as pie. Because you cut the tape in the middle, the leftover line is ready for a fitting as well, so you can attach a fitting to it and begin measuring your next run. Stupid-easy.

The Corvette FPR/Filter and its associated fittings from S&P... I don't recommend using them, and here's why: The 'Vette FPR/Filter is pretty flimsy in more ways than one, and I would recommend an aftermarket FPR setup. Here are my beefs with the 'Vette regulator:

- The mounting setup sucks my ***; using the S&P mount (or make your own) would be advised.
- If you torque on the S&P fittings too much when putting them on the Vette FPR/Filter's return/supply posts, you can literally twist and bend the posts! Be careful!
- Overall, fitment and mounting just isn't sturdy, and while it works (and conveniently combines pressure regulator and filter), I wouldn't use it again
- Oh yeah, and - almost forgot - when it comes time to replace it, you'll be buying more of the compression fittings from S&P unless you saw off the fittings and find new compression rings to fit the new FPR/Filter; Not an ideal way to do things.

Finally, I went with an Optima red top battery. There are several choices, and if you hunt for the Camaro in your year that came with a 396 or similar big block, you should find it has at least 780-800CCA, if that's what you're looking for.

If I can think of anything else to chime in on, I will. I'll try to keep an eye on your post.

Meanwhile, have you seen this info from S&P?:

http://www.hotrodlane.cc/Streetstori...ls1camaro1.htm

Probably a good overview for you. There are at least three other 67-69 swaps they have at their site which I found PDFs for and have laying around somewhere.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the insight!
The swagelocks are pricey, but you can get the compression rings for them. We have already decided that from now on, we build our own hoses. We have been learning about the different fittings, and what is good for what, and how to build each type. We did get the weatherpack kit on order. Any wiring we do will use the weatherpacks. Strong, water tight, inexpensive, and easy to mate/un-mate. The cable X came in also, and we are going to have to find a good location for it. As far as the power steering pump, it sure looks like the pressure side is a metric flare of the 16mm x 1.5 with o-ring variety. I am ordering one, if it fits, I will let you know. We have the engine up on the stand, the tranny on a cart, and have started stripping the engine down. Pulled the pan, and everything looks good so far. Don't know if there is any demand for them, but we will try to sell the AC compressor & bracket, mounts & stands, EGR crap, and exhaust manifolds. Hopefully someone needs them, I have a hard time throwing out a perfectly good part (or even very bad ones!). I will get pics of this progress up soon. Pulled the harness, and hope to get it sent off tomorow, and need to return a few items to S&P. Don't need the EGR block off plate, the LS6 manifold doesn't use it. It looks like a simple vacuum cap will solve that issue. Pretty impressed with how the LS is built. Very strong, and easy to service. The T56 weighed a bit more than we expected. Looks like the clutch was serviced recently, but we decided that we are changing it anyway. Much easier to do now! Won't be a lot of progress for the next few days, we need to get caught up around our house.

shifty`

iTrader: (3)

PS - another tip: If you're deleting the A/C, the A/C mount holes are threaded the same as the master ground (just in front of the starter). I moved my ground strap all the way to the front A/C bracket hole, it allowed me to use the factory ground cable, which was a huge +++ in my book.

In fact, on the topic of cables....with GM vehicles that have the battery in the front passenger side (assuming you don't relocate), you can take the stock cables and do a hell of a lot with them:

Take the original cables, split the loom and flip the loom around so that the opening for the ground is on the side farthest from the starter connection (this will mean separating the ground and power cables in that run temporarily).

Move the ground strap forward to the A/C mount. This will give you more room to pull the ground up to the battery, avoiding the headers. For really clean battery wiring using stock F-Body cables, you can also use the other two positive runs to your advantage (one is black going to alternator, the other is red going to the factory system bus for interior power): plug the alternator up where it is supposed to go, then use the other (red) positive lead to power your block of relays that you're using for your harness/internal wiring (to fuel pump, fans, etc.)

PS - if servicing the clutch, drop on a lightweight flywheel and lighter clutch while you're at it. I think a lot of people change the forks in the tranny over to steel ones, I've heard a LOT of talk about broken forks (although I wouldn't understand it unless I went and looked it up again).

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Here are a few pics...

Engine as it arrived.

Stripping the harness.

Harness removed.

Everything safely on the stand.

T/A-Speedfreak

iTrader: (8)

could you pm me on how much money it has cost you so far? I'm concidering swapping engines myself. I'd like to use the ls1 a/c.

shifty`

iTrader: (3)

If it's possible to post it publicly, I'd be interested - I've probably got about $7500 invested in my LS1/T56 at this point and I've got it running, with less than $200-300 worth of stuff left to finish it out.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

It's possible to use the LS1 F-body cables completely unmodified on a 1st gen Camaro. I ran the "other" positive lead to a new junction at the the horn relay, a wire from that junction to the horn relay, and ran another 4ga wire from that junction over to where I mounted my fuses/relays above the blower motor. All of the body electrical comes through the horn relay. I clipped the original wire that ran from the battery-side junction block to the horn relay--it had already been hacked up on both ends before anyway. I didn't even crack open most of the LS1 loom (started cracking open the loom at the ECM, but stopped after about 2 feet).
http://www.blown.net/ls1swap/DSCF3967.html
http://www.blown.net/ls1swap/DSCF3966.html
http://www.blown.net/ls1swap/DSCF3974.html


If this is a stock F-body T56, go ahead and send it off to get rebuilt AND upgraded now. The stock 3-4 shifter fork is aluminum and bends fairly easy, the original cellulose blocker rings tear up, and the stock cast slider keys can break or fall out. The stock T56 can handle a lot of torque, but it can't take hard shifting. I didn't rebuild mine, and ended up pulling it right back out after I got it running. Lots more info in the manual trans forum here.

I'm running the LS7 ('06 Z06) clutch with an LS2 flywheel. It reliable for 500hp and it's got less pedal effort than the factory clutch in '00 Mustang GT (!@#$ cable-actuated clutch in the stang). No need for a lighter flywheel in a street car IMO, and I haven't seen a "light weight clutch". All of the aftermarket clutches I've seen appear to use the stock Luk hard parts and they re-line the disc and change out the springs on the pressure plate. Lots more info in the manual trans forum. You'll also want to ditch the stock pilot bearing and switch to an old fashioned bronze bushing.

Both of the above are A LOT easier to do before you put the engine in the car. Getting the T56 out and especially back in is a royal pain from underneath on the 1st gen.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Not counting anything else we have done or are doing, only the engine swap itself, we have passed the $11K mark. We still have a bit to spend yet. We have not been working bargain basement, but have tried not to throw much away either. Next time, we should be able to do a full swap for under $8K. When the engine is in, we promise to post a spreadsheet of our costs. There have been some lessons learned, and some things we either just don't feel like doing ourselves, or it is cost effective to farm it out and save the time. The harness is a good example, I know I can do it, I just would rather spend that time wrenching. Rodder, we have considered sending the trans out for a rebuild. As for the horn relay and whatnot, that is all coming out. I have redesigned the front end harness with more modern parts, and as more parts come in, I am working out how I want to route it. I really want as clean a core support as possible. The horns will be moved to a 40A relay, and I am using a junction block (just like behind your battery) as my common point of distribution. I am still working out the fuseblocks, relays and exactly how I am going to mount the fan control module we bought. Most of it will wind up in the fenderwell behind the driver headlight, behind the washer jar. All the electrical portion of the RS headlights are being redone, and we are not using the GM layout. SHould work out slick. Still trying to figure out where we want to mount the computer. I don't want to extend the harness, so i am really considering making a tray for it over the heater box. Maybe clean it up and polish or paint it??? I will worry about the super fancy stuff later, my wife wants to be driving it right now! There are a lot of things that will come back out for paint when we paint the car next winter, and that is when we are thinking of a full rebuild, and maybe a few go-fasters. The exhaust is still in question just yet, and we would love to hear from anyone with a first gen on what is working for them. We don't want to loose any more ground clearance, so we are thinking of going back to the transverse muffler. The traction bars cost a little in clearance, but being so close to the tire, it isn't too bad.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

Right now I'm running the same exhause that I had with my 350--just had to trim it back some due to my new headers being longer. It's 2 1/2" pipe running on top of the stock convt x-brace then through a pair of ancient 2-chamber Flowmasters, then over the axle and out the back. It was done custom by a muffler shop about 11 years ago. I'm about to redo it again, this time with Borla ProXS mufflers and Flowmaster 15801 pre-made tailpipes. Here's another guy running a similar setup http://69camaro.nextmill.net/exhaust.htm.

cvitte71

Where did you get the engine/transmission set up from, I am currently looking for an LS2 setup for my '67 Firebird.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Bought it froma recycler in SC on ebay. I don't know if I can post a number for a non-sponser, but his name is Lynn at Performance Auto. His ebay name is LS1_Z28. Very freindly, prompt, and I will be doing business with him again. One thing he does that most ebay sellers don't is offer a free reprogram of your computer. That alone can save you a few hundred bucks. We had been considering the LS2, but they tend to go between $7500 and $9500! This LS1 from an 02 WS6 more than meets our needs for less than <$4000. Your firebird swap would be pretty cool. You should pony up the big buks and just go for a new LS7 (hear that advice all the time on here, not seeing anyone do it though).

C5stein

You are right, a bunch of guys out there find it pretty easy to spend someone elses money for the LS7 (over $13k once it is said and done with oil system and computer gear). At work we are involved in two projects each getting an LS7, one is a super high dollar '69 Camaro that we did our stage three setup on the engine, over 630hp at the flywheel, running 255/45/17 tires (should render the car almost undrivable at WOT) IMHO. and a '69 Corvette with tremec 5 speed. This one is getting quite a bit more tire and a big brake upgrade but will still be tough to mat the gas comming off of a corner.

I decided that for my '68 Firebird a simple 500+hp setup would work fine for me so I'm going with a LQ4 out of a truck, had a few LS6 heads, Intake manifold and Throttle body sitting on a shelf, swap in a 230ish/580ish/112 lsa cam with complementary push rods, springs... We are trying out the Hooker super comp headers, which in our case seem to fit well, clearing the stock steering box (but possibly a bit too small on the primaries), and a 4L60E trans. The engine and trans were about $3500, complete with computer and harness, Headers were about $700, I gave my customer $200 for the heads, intake and TB and we are making our own engine mounts. We are going to try out one of the new Moroso lsx/1st gen F-body oil pans and sheetmetal valve covers. I've got a few hundred in C5 Corvette accessory drive and brackets, PS pump, alt and WP. Even though I'm a Baer brake distributor, I have a complete set of Viper Brake calipers that I took off of a customer's car years ago & I'm going to rebuild and adapt them. Again the price was right - Free. I'm thinking that the AFCO aluminum LSx into 1st gen f-body radiator with built on electric cooling fan/shroud looks like a nice piece to cool the water and because the LQ4 is out of a truck, it already has a manifold and lines for an oil cooler so I'll use a Setrab or XRP setup that is about 12" wide and about 9" tall. and mount it behind the grill. QA1 single **** adjustable shocks all the way around will add $600 to $800 to the suspension and I'm thinking that a two inch drop spindle is required. Even though this motor is an iron block, it only out weighs an LS2 or LS7 by about 65 to 80 Lbs. and I'd rather have the extra $3k to $10k respectively for the rest of the package.

I figure that by the time the smoke clears, i'll have about $10k into the swap. We shall see. Good luck on your project.

Mark

cvitte71

I have someone actively looking now for a LS2, says he can get me the whole set-up, engine, 6sp, PCM, harness, etc, for under $5000, I told him if he could find it, I'd buy it. He even said he'd get me a warranty for 12months. I know, sounds too good to be true, but he told me that finding buyers with ready cash is usually the problem, not so much finding the engines, cars are wrecked everyday he tells me, and the more certain he is he has a buyer for major components, the easier he feels bidding at auctions.

LS7, it's nice to dream, and if your going to dream, dream big, but that's too much cash, i'd probably be looking at 20K if I went with an engine that is 13-14 to begin with, I'd still have to get it in the car!!

i'm in the process of adding power steering to mine, read some of these post a bit too late, I didn't know that a late model gear box would fit in an early model car. Mine is a quick ratio, 2.5 lock to lock. Still waiting on a bracket from ebay to mount the pump. Pontiac V8 parts are not easy to find.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

You're better off with a good performance-rebuild box like an AGR or Lee than a Cardone or junkyard box anyway. Both of the latter are a crapshoot.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Cvitte71,
When we did our steering gear upgrade, we wanted to spend very little. We did a lot of research and discovered that you can order a fast ratio through your LAP (CSK for us) supplier if you know what you are looking for. We did the same with the brake booster. Both units where A1 Cardone rebuilds. For an early F-Body, you want the 276509 Cardonee 2.5-3.0 turn ($132) or the 972 Lares Quick ratio ($188). Both will work well. Lares is a local rebuilder here, but it was going to be 4 weeks at the time. That changes all the time however. We used the Cardonne because it was in stock, and $50 is $50. It works great! The booster is a drum/drum 501105 Cardone unit with master cylinder and check valve for $95. Works well. You will need to source the little boot on the backside of the booster however. MBM will sell you one for about $5. We didn't want to spend a lot there, as we knew major suspension upgrades are in the future, but the car was barely drivable with the manual brakes and sloppy power steering. This set of changes all by themselves made a HUGE improvement on the drivability of this car. WHile we have only driven it a short ways since changing the steering column and steering wheel, these also made a big difference. The car is currently still running the stock style 14" wheels, so it doesn't takke much to make it better. It is hard to believe sometimes that the F-body was the best handling car of its time. Suspension wise, we are still researching, but GLobal West may be the winner here. Advice welcome!

As for the crack on spending others money, it just gets so easy to keep spending more and more. I had to stop myself last night from ordering more goodies. We want to get her all installed, running, and fully tested before we go through the dress up and build up stage. Not only is this more money and time, but we honestly don't know what to expect from this swap, and would like to feel the engine/trans as it is (or close to it), before deciding on any upgrades.