LS1 Supra
04-06-2007, 09:49 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by superlsx
alright fellas. got a 89 supra and it needs a lil gm pwerplant. i was thinking an ls series with a t56 swap. already been to wrongmotor.com and no luck i need help. 
Have you decided on which motor 5.3/6.0/ls1?
Have you found a motor/trans nearby?
Are you going to do the fab work or send it to a shop?
04-06-2007, 10:25 PM
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i will try to get some pics soon. umm im going with an ls1/t56. and yes i am doing all the fab myself. i notice your from phoenix. did you go to uti or anything.
04-07-2007, 01:31 AM
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There is an LS1 motor in the sixes...
There is a 2JZ motor in the sixes...
I heard recently that the Nissan VQ V6 block has hit over 2k rwhp...
If you put money into these blocks, you can go over 2k rwhp... Big deal... Arguing which one is better is pointless because they're all pretty small. They're production motors, after all.
A nice BBC with twins and now you're talking 2500+ rwhp!!!
The point is, that for production blocks, they all are pretty impressive (let's not forget the RB26, Ford terminators, Viper V10's making 1krwhp on pump and they have the six-speed record in the sevens now, I believe, etc) when you put them to work and they're all up there of course...
However, the bigger you go displacement, the more streetable you'll be... The LS1 does cost more to build up, trust me, I know.
But you get what you pay for because my car can accelerate without needing to downshift.
Power under the curve doesn't matter a WHOLE lot when racing (gearing etc. compensates), but it matters a whole lot on the street, when you want at least half your power once in a while at 2.5k rpm.
This is the appeal of the LS1... Not of the 2JZ.
There is a 2JZ motor in the sixes...
I heard recently that the Nissan VQ V6 block has hit over 2k rwhp...
If you put money into these blocks, you can go over 2k rwhp... Big deal... Arguing which one is better is pointless because they're all pretty small. They're production motors, after all.
A nice BBC with twins and now you're talking 2500+ rwhp!!!
The point is, that for production blocks, they all are pretty impressive (let's not forget the RB26, Ford terminators, Viper V10's making 1krwhp on pump and they have the six-speed record in the sevens now, I believe, etc) when you put them to work and they're all up there of course...
However, the bigger you go displacement, the more streetable you'll be... The LS1 does cost more to build up, trust me, I know.
But you get what you pay for because my car can accelerate without needing to downshift.
Power under the curve doesn't matter a WHOLE lot when racing (gearing etc. compensates), but it matters a whole lot on the street, when you want at least half your power once in a while at 2.5k rpm.
This is the appeal of the LS1... Not of the 2JZ.
04-07-2007, 11:24 AM
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Funny you should mention that. They're even commenting on this thread over at supraforums.com. I imagine that some of these users just joined in to toot their horn and nothing else. That said, I have been reading up on this swap. For one, I'd got to supraforums, they have a couple of threads for this kinda thing. Seems like you'll need an Fbody oil pan and accessories. As far as a tranny goes, they say that the T56 is too tall for the trans tunnel in the supra so you'd either need to go auto or somehow adapt the R154 (that's the right trans right?).
I'm not terribly well versed in this area, but i will reitterate, check out supra forums for help...
I'm not terribly well versed in this area, but i will reitterate, check out supra forums for help...
04-07-2007, 07:47 PM
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Wow, that thread over there is significantly intelligent.
As for the V160, what about adapting it the LSx? I saw the profile shots, but I'm unsure how the tunnel is on a Supra, what about altering that bellhousing region to fit it better(going t56 way)?
As for engine mounting... hmm... that's a toughy. The stock one, being cast(saw the glaring failure in one pic), don't modify it a lot, at least how I'm envisiong it.
You could do a tubular style. Or borrow ideas from the offroad junkies and do rectangular of sufficient thickness, use some geometry, cut, and proper weld and heating techniques and voila. come out with a strong piece on the cheap. All you would need is the rectangular tube steel and some plate steel. And gusset where you can get away with it.
FWIW, I'm in the process of doing a FD LS1 swap at the moment. We have parts in at around 8K maximum, labor is just me and my buddy(the owner of the car)... (and that's including several safety fixes that the previous owners supposed rx7 notable tuner f**ked up big time on aka 2 bolts per seat... control arms near collapse, known installation of a clipped turbo)
As for the V160, what about adapting it the LSx? I saw the profile shots, but I'm unsure how the tunnel is on a Supra, what about altering that bellhousing region to fit it better(going t56 way)?
As for engine mounting... hmm... that's a toughy. The stock one, being cast(saw the glaring failure in one pic), don't modify it a lot, at least how I'm envisiong it.
You could do a tubular style. Or borrow ideas from the offroad junkies and do rectangular of sufficient thickness, use some geometry, cut, and proper weld and heating techniques and voila. come out with a strong piece on the cheap. All you would need is the rectangular tube steel and some plate steel. And gusset where you can get away with it.
FWIW, I'm in the process of doing a FD LS1 swap at the moment. We have parts in at around 8K maximum, labor is just me and my buddy(the owner of the car)... (and that's including several safety fixes that the previous owners supposed rx7 notable tuner f**ked up big time on aka 2 bolts per seat... control arms near collapse, known installation of a clipped turbo)
04-07-2007, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ToyotaSupra
GOD YOU GUYS ARE RIDICULOUS!!
7mgte??? How dare you put that mk3 engine in the same class as the 2jz
That pos motor blows head gaskets like no tomorrow. Anything over 300rwhp on that engine and shes toast. Been there on my 87 Turbo. I now have a 1998 mk4 and for you guys ripping the 2jz...oh my...
I encourage you guys to go to supraforums.com and read about how many DOZENS UPON DOZENS owners have 700+hp on stock blocks.
Its all over the place. And you know the funny part? Most dont have over 30k miles, they have over 70 and 80k miles!
GTOPOWERED...if you blew up a 2jz with 700hp, you were doing something wrong. Learn how to tune
There are actually 3 guys right now on supraforums with dyno sheets of over 950rwhp on stock block.
I can vouch for Mike's car...it has a T88 turbo and will produce in the 900rwhp range when it gets dyno'd shortly. And guess what. ON THE STOCK BLOCK just like most of all the other owners
Also, I hope I see one of you ls1 guys testing me around town pretty quick here. I'd love to give a little lesson on a stock block supra
7mgte??? How dare you put that mk3 engine in the same class as the 2jz
That pos motor blows head gaskets like no tomorrow. Anything over 300rwhp on that engine and shes toast. Been there on my 87 Turbo. I now have a 1998 mk4 and for you guys ripping the 2jz...oh my...
I encourage you guys to go to supraforums.com and read about how many DOZENS UPON DOZENS owners have 700+hp on stock blocks.
Its all over the place. And you know the funny part? Most dont have over 30k miles, they have over 70 and 80k miles! GTOPOWERED...if you blew up a 2jz with 700hp, you were doing something wrong. Learn how to tune
There are actually 3 guys right now on supraforums with dyno sheets of over 950rwhp on stock block.
I can vouch for Mike's car...it has a T88 turbo and will produce in the 900rwhp range when it gets dyno'd shortly. And guess what. ON THE STOCK BLOCK just like most of all the other owners
Also, I hope I see one of you ls1 guys testing me around town pretty quick here. I'd love to give a little lesson on a stock block supra
I figured one of the fan boys would run over to the supraforums. Now that aside, lets say for just a sec this BS is true. SO WHAT! It would be THE ONLY ADVANTAGE the 2JZ has over the LSX. The LSX's other advantages still easily out weigh that. And on that note, WHAT IDIOT WOULD SINK THOUSANDS INTO A STOCK BOTTOMED MOTOR TRYING TO PUSH THE LIMIT AND RISK WASTING IT ALL? If you cant afford the supporting mods, don't build it until you can. I love it when the supra guys get thier panties in a bunch and start trying to prove how big thier **** is. Just remember, no matter how fast your supra is, there will always be a faster V8.
And sorry for the
. since all they can do is throw around BS without backing, I'll stop playing with them. Calm down guys, its just a motor!Again, sorry for the hijack, my opinion is posted on page one.....
Last edited by GTOpowered240sx; 04-07-2007 at 08:56 PM.
04-07-2007, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 99corvette
I think its funny how all the supra owners think that supras are god because they can hold 1000 hp. But what they dont know is that the 4CL ECOTEC motors can hold 1000hp too.
Good point!!
04-07-2007, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunset'01Z
ls1 and 2jz are both great motors for different applications. the problem with the 1xxx hp supra's you see, most run big turbo's and only generate that so highly proclaimed hp through about 2k rpm's..
i recently read a magazine article about the highest hp street supra, ran 8.8's with 1200hp. that's really ******* fast. but, look at the guys running high 8's with lsx motors in their cars, they dont have near those hp numbers, and dont need them because lsx motors have much much more power under the curve. .
i recently read a magazine article about the highest hp street supra, ran 8.8's with 1200hp. that's really ******* fast. but, look at the guys running high 8's with lsx motors in their cars, they dont have near those hp numbers, and dont need them because lsx motors have much much more power under the curve. .
Now there's a term you'll never see on the supraforums.
Sorry, sorry..........I'm done.
04-07-2007, 08:48 PM
#54
A few things-
1) The newest user posting here is the thread starter (superlsx), so no one from another forum has jumped in that was not already here.
2) Superlsx is wanting info on putting an LSx motor into a MKIII (i.e. 86.5~92) Supra. He specifically has an '89. This website (LS1Tech) is the proper place to find info on what he is wanting to do. He even posted his thread in the correct category
. Had he wanted to swap a 2JZ motor in, he would probably have been better off on a Supra related forum, or perhaps 2JZTech.com. The additional info involving the MKIV Supras is not of much use to what he is wanting to do.
3) The V160 is not geared anywhere near the T56, and is really not much of an improvement for an OD tranny over the R154 MKIII turbo tranny (the OD is actually higher than the R154) :
V160 Ratios:
First Gear: 3.830:1
Second Gear: 2.360:1
Third Gear: 1.680:1
Fourth Gear: 1.310:1
Fifth Gear: 1:1
Sixth Gear: 0.790:1
R154 Ratios:
First Gear: 3.250:1
Second Gear: 1.955:1
Third Gear: 1.310:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.753:1
Prices for the four (4) of the V160 transmissions listed for sale nationwide on Car-part.com ranged from $2125 to $2695 (plus a $500 core). Interestingly, 3 were in Albany GA and the other in Tallahassee FL- very close to each other.
Prices for the over 100 LS1 F-body T56s on the same website ranged from $1250 to $2800 (I excluded the units that were take outs with motors and very few required a core).
The F-body T56 is geared for a V8 powered 3500+/- pound RWD car. Superlsx is wanting to put a V8 into a 3500+/- pound RWD car. The T56 is the better choice. It will bolt up to the motor w/o any adapters, and will wire up as-is. My point is, it would be more cost-effective to mod his tunnel and use a T56 than to try & adapt a V160.
I was able to find adapters to use the R154 at a place that adapts Jeep and 4WD stuff for Toyotas. It could have been done with not too much effort and parts.
I researched all of this tranny stuff when I put the LM7 in my '88 Supra. I ended up using a Tremec TKO600 since I was initally planning to run a turbo on the LM7. The Tremec adapted fairly well to the car, and has ratios suited for a heavy V8 powered car. The main drawback was that it could have sat a little farther back- I had to mod the shifter opening.
4) There is no need to build a subframe for a MKIII Supra. You can fabricate some 1/4" steel plates and use some spacers from Jags That Run (JTR) from their V8 Datsun Z car kit, which bolt to the LSx adpater plates for putting those motors in a Gen 1 SBC vehicle. Mike at JTR is a great guy and will get you whatever you need for this. There may be a difference in the mounts on an '89- the '91 parts car I had used C5 pillow/stud style mounts. An adapter plate could still be used, but would need to be configured differently.
Short Attention Span Summary
1) There has been no outside interference in this thread.
2) Superlsx wants to build an LSx powered MKIII Supra. He came to the right place, and doesn't need info on MKIV Supras.
3) The V160 Toyo tranny is expensive, hard to find, and not geared well for a V8. The T56 is a better buy, or a Toyo R154 or Tremec could be adapted.
4) A subframe is not needed on an LSx MKIII swap. Adapters can be made from plate steel and other off-the-shelf stuff.
1) The newest user posting here is the thread starter (superlsx), so no one from another forum has jumped in that was not already here.
2) Superlsx is wanting info on putting an LSx motor into a MKIII (i.e. 86.5~92) Supra. He specifically has an '89. This website (LS1Tech) is the proper place to find info on what he is wanting to do. He even posted his thread in the correct category
. Had he wanted to swap a 2JZ motor in, he would probably have been better off on a Supra related forum, or perhaps 2JZTech.com. The additional info involving the MKIV Supras is not of much use to what he is wanting to do.3) The V160 is not geared anywhere near the T56, and is really not much of an improvement for an OD tranny over the R154 MKIII turbo tranny (the OD is actually higher than the R154) :
V160 Ratios:
First Gear: 3.830:1
Second Gear: 2.360:1
Third Gear: 1.680:1
Fourth Gear: 1.310:1
Fifth Gear: 1:1
Sixth Gear: 0.790:1
R154 Ratios:
First Gear: 3.250:1
Second Gear: 1.955:1
Third Gear: 1.310:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.753:1
Prices for the four (4) of the V160 transmissions listed for sale nationwide on Car-part.com ranged from $2125 to $2695 (plus a $500 core). Interestingly, 3 were in Albany GA and the other in Tallahassee FL- very close to each other.
Prices for the over 100 LS1 F-body T56s on the same website ranged from $1250 to $2800 (I excluded the units that were take outs with motors and very few required a core).
The F-body T56 is geared for a V8 powered 3500+/- pound RWD car. Superlsx is wanting to put a V8 into a 3500+/- pound RWD car. The T56 is the better choice. It will bolt up to the motor w/o any adapters, and will wire up as-is. My point is, it would be more cost-effective to mod his tunnel and use a T56 than to try & adapt a V160.
I was able to find adapters to use the R154 at a place that adapts Jeep and 4WD stuff for Toyotas. It could have been done with not too much effort and parts.
I researched all of this tranny stuff when I put the LM7 in my '88 Supra. I ended up using a Tremec TKO600 since I was initally planning to run a turbo on the LM7. The Tremec adapted fairly well to the car, and has ratios suited for a heavy V8 powered car. The main drawback was that it could have sat a little farther back- I had to mod the shifter opening.
4) There is no need to build a subframe for a MKIII Supra. You can fabricate some 1/4" steel plates and use some spacers from Jags That Run (JTR) from their V8 Datsun Z car kit, which bolt to the LSx adpater plates for putting those motors in a Gen 1 SBC vehicle. Mike at JTR is a great guy and will get you whatever you need for this. There may be a difference in the mounts on an '89- the '91 parts car I had used C5 pillow/stud style mounts. An adapter plate could still be used, but would need to be configured differently.
Short Attention Span Summary
1) There has been no outside interference in this thread.
2) Superlsx wants to build an LSx powered MKIII Supra. He came to the right place, and doesn't need info on MKIV Supras.
3) The V160 Toyo tranny is expensive, hard to find, and not geared well for a V8. The T56 is a better buy, or a Toyo R154 or Tremec could be adapted.
4) A subframe is not needed on an LSx MKIII swap. Adapters can be made from plate steel and other off-the-shelf stuff.
04-07-2007, 09:24 PM
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i will get the t56 to fit! and just for the record the only time ive been on a supra forum was the link on this tread. i joined lsitech to get info and im getting a lot. im not a spy from the supra forum. i just want to have an ls1/t56 mkIII supra. not so hard.. thanks for the info guys keep it coming...superlsx
04-07-2007, 09:31 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by V8 Supra Builder
2) Superlsx is wanting info on putting an LSx motor into a MKIII (i.e. 86.5~92) Supra. He specifically has an '89. This website (LS1Tech) is the proper place to find info on what he is wanting to do. He even posted his thread in the correct category . Had he wanted to swap a 2JZ motor in, he would probably have been better off on a Supra related forum, or perhaps 2JZTech.com. The additional info involving the MKIV Supras is not of much use to what he is wanting to do.
. Had he wanted to swap a 2JZ motor in, he would probably have been better off on a Supra related forum, or perhaps 2JZTech.com. The additional info involving the MKIV Supras is not of much use to what he is wanting to do.
04-08-2007, 12:51 AM
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1000whp dyno doesn't mean **** when your making 300whp at 6k and 1000k at 7k. your still lagging *** on the streets period. power band > you. sorry i got tired of playing catch up with smaller motors that have nothing under the curve and require a power adder to make any significant power.
also comparing a stock ls1 car to a stock tt supra as far as which was fun to drive is a very lame comparison. on one hand you have a car that hugs like a care bear in the turns with a peaky power band vs a car that couldn't make a u turn without body roll with off the line instant lasting power.
also comparing a stock ls1 car to a stock tt supra as far as which was fun to drive is a very lame comparison. on one hand you have a car that hugs like a care bear in the turns with a peaky power band vs a car that couldn't make a u turn without body roll with off the line instant lasting power.
04-08-2007, 08:28 AM
#59
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Who really gives a ****? The car won't be stock, do what you like. Blaze a trail and throw that LS1 in there and open season on whoop ***.
There are fast cars with both motors in them. They are both very stout and can be built to very high standards. I have a 2jz coming back hopefully this week for an install into a 94'. It should make your panties wet. The motor let go after it was worn and tired, but it previously made over 800 at the wheels on a stock block. You cannot complain about that. My friend has a blown ZO6 that has a built motor and he put down 750ish, or something. Bottom line is that I'd take either!
Also when racing, who in their right mind drops out of the power curve? SO wether it's at 3k or 7k stay in that bitch and drive it like you stole it.
There are fast cars with both motors in them. They are both very stout and can be built to very high standards. I have a 2jz coming back hopefully this week for an install into a 94'. It should make your panties wet. The motor let go after it was worn and tired, but it previously made over 800 at the wheels on a stock block. You cannot complain about that. My friend has a blown ZO6 that has a built motor and he put down 750ish, or something. Bottom line is that I'd take either!
Also when racing, who in their right mind drops out of the power curve? SO wether it's at 3k or 7k stay in that bitch and drive it like you stole it.
04-08-2007, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by pearceleather
Who really gives a ****? The car won't be stock, do what you like. Blaze a trail and throw that LS1 in there and open season on whoop ***.
There are fast cars with both motors in them. They are both very stout and can be built to very high standards. I have a 2jz coming back hopefully this week for an install into a 94'. It should make your panties wet. The motor let go after it was worn and tired, but it previously made over 800 at the wheels on a stock block. You cannot complain about that. My friend has a blown ZO6 that has a built motor and he put down 750ish, or something. Bottom line is that I'd take either!
Also when racing, who in their right mind drops out of the power curve? SO wether it's at 3k or 7k stay in that bitch and drive it like you stole it.
There are fast cars with both motors in them. They are both very stout and can be built to very high standards. I have a 2jz coming back hopefully this week for an install into a 94'. It should make your panties wet. The motor let go after it was worn and tired, but it previously made over 800 at the wheels on a stock block. You cannot complain about that. My friend has a blown ZO6 that has a built motor and he put down 750ish, or something. Bottom line is that I'd take either!
Also when racing, who in their right mind drops out of the power curve? SO wether it's at 3k or 7k stay in that bitch and drive it like you stole it.