Spoiled by the LSX engines
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,987
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From: Houston, TX
Spoiled by the LSX engines So, I picked up a 1970 Chevelle SS 454 this week, LS-5 car in restored condition. I've never owned a BBC before, this one sure feels like a slug. I figured I might look around at some parts to help it out a bit, and I'm reading these Chevelle and musclecar sites on the net.
Guys are mildly modifying their 454ci engines and happy with low 13s and 100-102 mph trap speeds.
I don't know about you guys, but that seems kind of pathetic compared to what LSX engines put out from the showroom. I know the 454 BBC has a ton of potential, but simple intake/cam/header swaps on them do not seem to be that impressive. In the LSX world, if you have anything higher than 400ci and aren't running 10s something must be wrong
Hmmm....keep the BBC or punt? I would like a streetable 500 rwhp out of it.
Guys are mildly modifying their 454ci engines and happy with low 13s and 100-102 mph trap speeds.
I don't know about you guys, but that seems kind of pathetic compared to what LSX engines put out from the showroom. I know the 454 BBC has a ton of potential, but simple intake/cam/header swaps on them do not seem to be that impressive. In the LSX world, if you have anything higher than 400ci and aren't running 10s something must be wrong
Hmmm....keep the BBC or punt? I would like a streetable 500 rwhp out of it.
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 50
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keep the bbc, the car is what it is. play with the camaro's...
and yes, the lsx engine is going to spoil anyonefrom the older crowd.
even the new dodge hemis have alot of potential.
i missed you at the show a few weeks ago..going this saturday??
steve
and yes, the lsx engine is going to spoil anyonefrom the older crowd.
even the new dodge hemis have alot of potential.
i missed you at the show a few weeks ago..going this saturday??
steve
Do remember that Chevelle is a pretty heavy car (3800+) and shaped like a brick. Also, if it is an T400, they really do not have the low 1st gear like the OD automatics do today. Technology has definitely advanced in nearly 40 years. In the late 60s early 70s a 12 second street car was fast, was usually pretty much of a beast on the street with a lopey solid lifter cam and 4.10 or better gears.
All that said, with a good set of heads, a roller cam, good gear spacing in the trans either auto or stick and a good rear end gear I think you can make your chevelle do what you want. Don't expect decent gas mileage unless you go FI though and even then it won't be all that great.
Pat
All that said, with a good set of heads, a roller cam, good gear spacing in the trans either auto or stick and a good rear end gear I think you can make your chevelle do what you want. Don't expect decent gas mileage unless you go FI though and even then it won't be all that great.
Pat
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,987
Likes: 58
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by gremlinsteve
i missed you at the show a few weeks ago..going this saturday??
steve
steve
Big show tomorrow at HMP too, was supposed to judge it but had to go on the boat.
Something to consider...
If this is a numbers matching Chevelle SS.. wtih the LS-5.. if correctly restored it can bring a lot of money, just watch the audtions on TV.. If you hang on to it for a while, you can turn around and sell it and make enough to by a few LSx cars or swaps.
IMO... It would be a shame to ruin a Numbers Matching Classic Car. Get another car to play with.
If this is a numbers matching Chevelle SS.. wtih the LS-5.. if correctly restored it can bring a lot of money, just watch the audtions on TV.. If you hang on to it for a while, you can turn around and sell it and make enough to by a few LSx cars or swaps.
IMO... It would be a shame to ruin a Numbers Matching Classic Car. Get another car to play with.
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Those cars are heavy, and the 454 is probably 8.1 compression depending on year.They can run though, put some good pistions in, pocket ported 049,781 oval port heads, decent cam and they will run.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,987
Likes: 58
From: Houston, TX
not a #'s matching engine or tranny in the car. Yes, Chevelles are heavy but not any heavier than a late model Mustang GT or newer GTO. Both of which could probably walk this car
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 55
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From: Philly
if the short block is in good condition put a heads cam intake set up on it and it will make 500rwhp for sure....... of if you wanna rebuild it make it a nice 468. big blocks can make 700hp pretty easy.....
I vote keep the 454. The LSx motors are just so far advanced when it comes to those older motors. Like somebody already said, back in 1970 that car was the ****, and 13 seconds was doin pretty good. These days I dont consider much above a 12.0 as "quick".
But...what appeals to me about these older chevelles and muscle cars is, for lack of a better term, their charm...and personality. Just something about that big gas guzzling big block that is cool. Nostalgic if you will.
If you wanna take it out and make it as fast as you can...do something crazy with the motor like swap in an LS7 or turbo something or other.. but if you want to just enjoy the car for what it is, just do some work to the 454 and cruise man. I certainly dont see 500hp as that hard to achieve with a 454...
Justin
But...what appeals to me about these older chevelles and muscle cars is, for lack of a better term, their charm...and personality. Just something about that big gas guzzling big block that is cool. Nostalgic if you will.
If you wanna take it out and make it as fast as you can...do something crazy with the motor like swap in an LS7 or turbo something or other.. but if you want to just enjoy the car for what it is, just do some work to the 454 and cruise man. I certainly dont see 500hp as that hard to achieve with a 454...
Justin
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 686
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From: Seattle area
You can make that LS-5 pretty fast with the right mods, what about a 8-71 on top of the thing?
I love the BBC a Chevelle SS with a NRE 572 N/A would be a combo that would bring me to my knees!
I love the BBC a Chevelle SS with a NRE 572 N/A would be a combo that would bring me to my knees!
TECH Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 406
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From: Bay Area, CA
My old, old 8:1 Pontiac 400 with a dinky *** cam, smogger heads, and a pair of headers and 3.08's would run 101MPH - in 110* heat.
I don't think it should be too terribly hard to get 500+ horsepower out of a 454 as I know its not all too terribly hard with a Pontiac 455. They should also make a pretty good mountain of torque.
I think the first thing your going to need to look for is a decent set of heads. Thats where the powers made in the LSX, and thats where it's always been made. A lot of power could also be found with a rollercam and a decent exhaust system. The old log manifolds really were pretty sad. The timing curve may also be fairly lousy. Theres nothing magix about the LSX motors, they're just a well thought out design with really good heads. A lot of these cars ran better stock than they do after owners who don't understand that the bigger the cam isn't always better, and more carb is not always better, and bigger exhaust isn't always better, and more gear isn't always better. Usually end up with a very mean sounding car that can't get out of its own way and GUZZLES gas.
What did the car start life as? A base 350 2BBL/powerglide? Or is it an original big block car?
I don't think it should be too terribly hard to get 500+ horsepower out of a 454 as I know its not all too terribly hard with a Pontiac 455. They should also make a pretty good mountain of torque.
I think the first thing your going to need to look for is a decent set of heads. Thats where the powers made in the LSX, and thats where it's always been made. A lot of power could also be found with a rollercam and a decent exhaust system. The old log manifolds really were pretty sad. The timing curve may also be fairly lousy. Theres nothing magix about the LSX motors, they're just a well thought out design with really good heads. A lot of these cars ran better stock than they do after owners who don't understand that the bigger the cam isn't always better, and more carb is not always better, and bigger exhaust isn't always better, and more gear isn't always better. Usually end up with a very mean sounding car that can't get out of its own way and GUZZLES gas.
What did the car start life as? A base 350 2BBL/powerglide? Or is it an original big block car?
FYI... My Chevelle after a LS1 / T56 swap weighted in with 20gal of fuel = 3550 lbs I know I can drop a lot more if I had tried.
And that is with to boxes of Dynamat and full interior.
And that is with to boxes of Dynamat and full interior.
A friend of mine owned a '70 454 Chevelle with LS6 option and TH400. It ran low 13's/high 12's with headers/exhaust/cam/carb/intake.
He then got bored of it and bought an '87 Buick TType (turboV6) in the mid 90's. With a $75 chip, K&N air filter, no cat, upgraded exhaust, race gas, and ET Streets it ran high 12's.
The Chevelle was quickly sold.
He then installed larger turbo/injectors/intercooler upgrades and it went high 11's with stock longblock/cam.
Technology will always make old stuff pale in comparison. Just look at TV's. A TV from 5 years ago is kind of a POS now compared to plasma/LCD.
Keep the car stock and mess with your other cars.
He then got bored of it and bought an '87 Buick TType (turboV6) in the mid 90's. With a $75 chip, K&N air filter, no cat, upgraded exhaust, race gas, and ET Streets it ran high 12's.
The Chevelle was quickly sold.
He then installed larger turbo/injectors/intercooler upgrades and it went high 11's with stock longblock/cam.
Technology will always make old stuff pale in comparison. Just look at TV's. A TV from 5 years ago is kind of a POS now compared to plasma/LCD.
Keep the car stock and mess with your other cars.