Smaller diameter PS pump pulley for Fbody
Smaller diameter PS pump pulley for Fbody 2000 Camaro
First off I would just like to thank everybody for all the info put into this board. I did my full on LS1 swap by just doing searches on here. Lots of info and good info at that. I really appreciate it.
Here is my new problem. I dont have "frame" clearance like I need with my PS pump pulley. It moves just a tad too much and it hit my frame after 3 months and shattered the pulley.
I am looking for a stock replacement pulley around 5.5" diameter. I checked with www.howe.com, PSCmotorsports.com, all over ebay and searched the net with no results.
Best leads I have now are street and performance, or reichard racing. I couldnt get a clear answer from either of them on the phone this morning though. I will try back tomorrow.
Does anybody know of a smaller diameter pulley that has the same offset as the Fbody pump? Better yet is there a stock vehicle I could just go to the dealer for (Gen III motors, Jeep, Vortec etc,.??)
Again, thanks for the help. Here are a couple of pictures of what I was able to achieve from this board.
First off I would just like to thank everybody for all the info put into this board. I did my full on LS1 swap by just doing searches on here. Lots of info and good info at that. I really appreciate it.
Here is my new problem. I dont have "frame" clearance like I need with my PS pump pulley. It moves just a tad too much and it hit my frame after 3 months and shattered the pulley.
I am looking for a stock replacement pulley around 5.5" diameter. I checked with www.howe.com, PSCmotorsports.com, all over ebay and searched the net with no results.
Best leads I have now are street and performance, or reichard racing. I couldnt get a clear answer from either of them on the phone this morning though. I will try back tomorrow.
Does anybody know of a smaller diameter pulley that has the same offset as the Fbody pump? Better yet is there a stock vehicle I could just go to the dealer for (Gen III motors, Jeep, Vortec etc,.??)
Again, thanks for the help. Here are a couple of pictures of what I was able to achieve from this board.
Street and performance say that they can make me one from their 5/8 shift pulley. I just need to know the stock pulley offset.
Can anybody get me an accurate measurement of the stock pulley offset?
Can anybody get me an accurate measurement of the stock pulley offset?
Well, most of the pulley are press fit and keyed. so you might be able to just press it on to the correct offset. So as long as you get the correct dia. Most will work ok. I see that a 3rd gen V6 pulley is about 5.5" (saw that on ebay. Item number: 140101805976). So, if the shaft is the same size, that should work.
Most after market ones are larger pulleys to slow down the pump in high RPM ranges.. not smaller. is this for the buggy ?.. I would think that if it is and your rock crawing, that a smaller one would benifit you to keep the pump and pressure up..?
You might try calling one of those shops or stores that rebuilts the pumps.. I searched and found pwersteeringparts.com, try them or someone like that who has the correct knowledge. They might be able to give you the shaft size and what other car has the size pulley your looking for.
Most after market ones are larger pulleys to slow down the pump in high RPM ranges.. not smaller. is this for the buggy ?.. I would think that if it is and your rock crawing, that a smaller one would benifit you to keep the pump and pressure up..?
You might try calling one of those shops or stores that rebuilts the pumps.. I searched and found pwersteeringparts.com, try them or someone like that who has the correct knowledge. They might be able to give you the shaft size and what other car has the size pulley your looking for.
Last edited by bczee; Jul 24, 2007 at 12:11 PM.
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix Arizona - Ahwatukee
I'm looking for a smaller pulley setup for the LS1 too. I have an off-road car with a 2.5" ram for steering and at low RPMs the pump won't deliver enough volume to keep up with the steering wheel. I am hoping speeding up the pump a bit will make this problem go away.
I talked to Jeff Howe at WWW.howeperformance.com and he said that his 5-3/8 Desert Series pulley will fit the LS1's TC Saginaw pump (but not the CB Saginaw pump), but you need to use it with his mounting bracket to get the correct alignment of the pulley.
Let me know if you find another solution that works.
I talked to Jeff Howe at WWW.howeperformance.com and he said that his 5-3/8 Desert Series pulley will fit the LS1's TC Saginaw pump (but not the CB Saginaw pump), but you need to use it with his mounting bracket to get the correct alignment of the pulley.
Let me know if you find another solution that works.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: Taunton, UK
how do you identify which type of saginaw you have?
i am going to running hydro assist on the front (but full hydro on the rear) and really need fid some figures. i know that Pirate have a load of info on saginaws so i can use them to cross ref to..
any help much appreciated.
James
i am going to running hydro assist on the front (but full hydro on the rear) and really need fid some figures. i know that Pirate have a load of info on saginaws so i can use them to cross ref to..
any help much appreciated.
James
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix Arizona - Ahwatukee
I was told the CB Saginaw pump has a .75 in shaft and the TC pump has a 17mm shaft (or maybe 5/8 in).
I have a '98 F-body motor in my sandbuggy, and it has a .75 in shaft, so it must be a CB pump
The TC Saginaw pump has a bearing that supports the pump shaft in the nose of the pump (I think). The CB has a bushining and may be more prone to failure in extreme environments (High RPMs).
Here's a little writeup on the Saginaw pumps -
http://www.thirdgen.org/noises-power-steering-pump.
I'm still looking for a list of what vehicles come with the TC Saginaw pump if anybody knows. The referenced article is a little vague in this area.
Phil
I have a '98 F-body motor in my sandbuggy, and it has a .75 in shaft, so it must be a CB pump
The TC Saginaw pump has a bearing that supports the pump shaft in the nose of the pump (I think). The CB has a bushining and may be more prone to failure in extreme environments (High RPMs).
Here's a little writeup on the Saginaw pumps -
http://www.thirdgen.org/noises-power-steering-pump.
I'm still looking for a list of what vehicles come with the TC Saginaw pump if anybody knows. The referenced article is a little vague in this area.
Phil
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
Went to the junkyard today. Most of the late 80's on up Jeep Cherokees and that pickup thing they made used the TC Saginaw Pump. So do brick style Volvos and maybe Saabs too (but it looked damned hard to get off)
Howeperformance.com says their pully works on this pump. All the junkyard pulleys looked like they were smaller than the one that comes on the LS1
Howeperformance.com says their pully works on this pump. All the junkyard pulleys looked like they were smaller than the one that comes on the LS1
Alright here is what I came up with. I actually ended up going to Napa and they had a pulley. Napa part # 7-3033 http://napaonline.com/MasterPages/NO...fS+Pump+Pulley
I.D.:0.748"
O.D.:5-3/16"
Width:1-13/32"
Best guess I could come up for the offset with for the stock pulley is that it was 1.25" from the centerline of the hole in the middle.
The pulley works great and lines right up with the stock one. When I first put it on I thought I had bottomed the pulley out, maybe I did, maybe I didnt but I took it back off and took a die grinder to the furthest end on the pulley because I thought maybe it was tapering and thats why it wasent going on.
You might need to grind out the end and you may not. I am not sure but the pulley works great!
I.D.:0.748"
O.D.:5-3/16"
Width:1-13/32"
Best guess I could come up for the offset with for the stock pulley is that it was 1.25" from the centerline of the hole in the middle.
The pulley works great and lines right up with the stock one. When I first put it on I thought I had bottomed the pulley out, maybe I did, maybe I didnt but I took it back off and took a die grinder to the furthest end on the pulley because I thought maybe it was tapering and thats why it wasent going on.
You might need to grind out the end and you may not. I am not sure but the pulley works great!
Originally Posted by bczee
Well, most of the pulley are press fit and keyed. so you might be able to just press it on to the correct offset. So as long as you get the correct dia. Most will work ok. I see that a 3rd gen V6 pulley is about 5.5" (saw that on ebay. Item number: 140101805976). So, if the shaft is the same size, that should work.
Most after market ones are larger pulleys to slow down the pump in high RPM ranges.. not smaller. is this for the buggy ?.. I would think that if it is and your rock crawing, that a smaller one would benifit you to keep the pump and pressure up..?
You might try calling one of those shops or stores that rebuilts the pumps.. I searched and found pwersteeringparts.com, try them or someone like that who has the correct knowledge. They might be able to give you the shaft size and what other car has the size pulley your looking for.
Most after market ones are larger pulleys to slow down the pump in high RPM ranges.. not smaller. is this for the buggy ?.. I would think that if it is and your rock crawing, that a smaller one would benifit you to keep the pump and pressure up..?
You might try calling one of those shops or stores that rebuilts the pumps.. I searched and found pwersteeringparts.com, try them or someone like that who has the correct knowledge. They might be able to give you the shaft size and what other car has the size pulley your looking for.
Originally Posted by e015475
I'm looking for a smaller pulley setup for the LS1 too. I have an off-road car with a 2.5" ram for steering and at low RPMs the pump won't deliver enough volume to keep up with the steering wheel. I am hoping speeding up the pump a bit will make this problem go away.
I talked to Jeff Howe at WWW.howeperformance.com and he said that his 5-3/8 Desert Series pulley will fit the LS1's TC Saginaw pump (but not the CB Saginaw pump), but you need to use it with his mounting bracket to get the correct alignment of the pulley.
Let me know if you find another solution that works.
I talked to Jeff Howe at WWW.howeperformance.com and he said that his 5-3/8 Desert Series pulley will fit the LS1's TC Saginaw pump (but not the CB Saginaw pump), but you need to use it with his mounting bracket to get the correct alignment of the pulley.
Let me know if you find another solution that works.
Are you sure youre not talking about pressure instead of volume? Either way you can drill out the ouput fitting larger for more volume (if it steers too slow) or you can remove shims/add shims to the output piston and I would think youre ok.
If its not those two things maybe it could be your orbital? Just thoughts as this stock pump works great for me.
Originally Posted by LS1Sandrail
Went to the junkyard today. Most of the late 80's on up Jeep Cherokees and that pickup thing they made used the TC Saginaw Pump. So do brick style Volvos and maybe Saabs too (but it looked damned hard to get off)
Howeperformance.com says their pully works on this pump. All the junkyard pulleys looked like they were smaller than the one that comes on the LS1
Howeperformance.com says their pully works on this pump. All the junkyard pulleys looked like they were smaller than the one that comes on the LS1
The mounts on the pump had to be drilled out since they were threaded.
The shaft is 5/8 vs. Fbody 3/4
The pulley was about .500 further out from the motor.
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
Great research - thanks for the input on the NAPA pulley.
I'm pretty sure it is a volume problem. Often times decelerating into corners I have the throttle closed but need to turn the steering wheel quickly I will feel the steering tighten up momentarily, like what happens in a power-steering car when you turn off the motor while moving then try to move the steering wheel.
I drilled out the orifice on the discharge side of the pump to get about 30-40% more effective area, and that helped quite a bit. I figured that adding the smaller diameter pulley to speed up the pump a bit would put me over the edge and give me just that little more flow I need. I also took the factory reservoir off and put in a -10 fitting going to a half quart reservoir with about a foot of head above the pump
I have the F-body pump, which has the .750 diameter shaft but also has a bushing instead of a bearing in the housing. I wanted the most robust pump that I could find since it would be very difficult to maneuver out of the dunes without power steering. Howe Performance recommended the TC type pump with the smaller shaft, but wanted a couple of hundred for it, so I've been looking for a junkyard solution.
Here's a picture of the car it goes in- there is an LS1 under there somewhere.
I'm pretty sure it is a volume problem. Often times decelerating into corners I have the throttle closed but need to turn the steering wheel quickly I will feel the steering tighten up momentarily, like what happens in a power-steering car when you turn off the motor while moving then try to move the steering wheel.
I drilled out the orifice on the discharge side of the pump to get about 30-40% more effective area, and that helped quite a bit. I figured that adding the smaller diameter pulley to speed up the pump a bit would put me over the edge and give me just that little more flow I need. I also took the factory reservoir off and put in a -10 fitting going to a half quart reservoir with about a foot of head above the pump
I have the F-body pump, which has the .750 diameter shaft but also has a bushing instead of a bearing in the housing. I wanted the most robust pump that I could find since it would be very difficult to maneuver out of the dunes without power steering. Howe Performance recommended the TC type pump with the smaller shaft, but wanted a couple of hundred for it, so I've been looking for a junkyard solution.
Here's a picture of the car it goes in- there is an LS1 under there somewhere.
Are you trying to resolve the "the steering tighten up momentarily"...? That could be due to the Relief valve in the pump, inside the high side fitting. There are different springs/valve to change, I am not the expert on this, but maybe someone else can chime in or you can call and ask one of those shops that repairs them. My friend had a bad problem with this and he was able to get rid of most of it by changing the spring or spacer. I also have a bit, but it doesn't borther me that much, I'll get arund to trying different spring/spacer this winter.
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix Arizona - Ahwatukee
BCZ-
I'd always assumed that because the engine RPM was low and the movement of the ram was quite rapid, that I was running out of pump volume and, of course, pressure. Someone told me that the pump max volume output is reached at about 1200 RPM and it is bypassing the rest of the time.
I used this article to modify the orfice and spring-
http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.co...rsteering.html
There has been quite a bit written about the F-body pump failures due to the size of the pump relative to the demands of the rack. The pump is oversized to meet the low speed steering efforts of the F-body, but the bushing on the shaft does not want to live at higher RPMs. I'm told the TC pump is more tolerant of RPM.
I want the high flow characteristics but not the reliability issues.
Am I missing something in my logic? Why do you suggest the spring?
Phil
I'd always assumed that because the engine RPM was low and the movement of the ram was quite rapid, that I was running out of pump volume and, of course, pressure. Someone told me that the pump max volume output is reached at about 1200 RPM and it is bypassing the rest of the time.
I used this article to modify the orfice and spring-
http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.co...rsteering.html
There has been quite a bit written about the F-body pump failures due to the size of the pump relative to the demands of the rack. The pump is oversized to meet the low speed steering efforts of the F-body, but the bushing on the shaft does not want to live at higher RPMs. I'm told the TC pump is more tolerant of RPM.
I want the high flow characteristics but not the reliability issues.
Am I missing something in my logic? Why do you suggest the spring?
Phil
