V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Today my T56 arrived. I got the 2002 T56, an LS6 clutch & pressure plate, B&M shifter, and two throw out bearing assemblies for $1250 shipped.



I'm going to sell the LS6 clutch assembly since I have bought an LS7 assembly with flywheel.

I was able to locate locally the "rare" 3.64 LSD from a 91+ 750iL. Here are some pics:





I degreased & pressure washed everything & then threw a coat of flat black Rustoleum on the diff. I have ordered a pair of axles and trailing arms from distant JYs since their prices were better.

I did a test fit of the 525 driveshaft onto the 750 diff, and the diff flange had a slightly larger bolt circle and used what looks to be 10mm vs 8mm bolts. I measured the input flange on the diff and came up with the following measurements:


The holes are recessed- there is a lip that goes around the flange, so it looks like a normal u-joint flange adapter will not fit in there. I am going to contact some driveline and 4x4 places that do this type of conversion & see what their advice is. I expect I will need a companion flange that will adapt to a u-joint flange.

EDIT
I drew an adapter flange on a design program & came up with this as a draft attempt:


The dimensions are approximate, I'm still getting data on the parts. The Spicer 1350 (big u-joint) flange was way too big to fit on this setup. This one may not clear depending on how the diff mounts. I have an inquiry into a CV place & hope to hear back from them.

Schitzo

iTrader: (6)

Hi V8SB has she fired yet....is she driving...how bout now....now?...no?...Ok I"ll grow up.

How about a flange yoke (Im assuming you will be using a one piece custom Dshaft). A flange yoke would be less rotating weight. Not sure how much more that would cost to have made.

something along the lines of these Flange yokes

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Schitzo, if no one else has said it today- you ARE the man!

I looked at a Spicer catalog that was similar to the Rockford one (or so I thought). When i saw the Rockford one you linked, this jumped out at me:
R2-2-3101* Type 2 1.063 3.217-(O) 3.914-M 6 .328 — — 2.656 3.375
*Conversion Application - Reference Insert For More Information
This was referenced as:
"1310 Series yoke will allow you to replace the 6 ball cv style joints found on 1995-02 Jeep Grand Cherokee front shafts."

OK, a bunch of numbers, but here is the important stuff:
R2-2-3101
This is the part number I need to buy.

Type 2
It is round, just like my diff's flange. Hate putting square pegs in round holes, although that seems to take place from time to time around here.

3914-M
I saw a Superflow Dyno adapter page that listed the BMW 750i adapter as being 3.914" in diameter. This was close to the 4" I measured w/o a caliper, so I'm sure it is right. The Rockford part has a 3.914" diameter male pilot- just what I need!

6
My flange has 6 holes.

.328
I'm a little concerned here since this is less than the .393 a 10mm bolt will need, but I can bore it out. Better to start smaller & go large. Kind of like the motor & cost for this project.

3.375
Hey one of my measurements was right! That is what I got for the bolt circle.

According to this data, this part should do the trick. Now all I have to do is find one at a place that sells to the average Joe (or the above-average engine swapper ).

EDIT
Mission accomplished, found it retail for $60 plus ground shipping at Arizona Drivelines / Driveshaft Superstore. I think this is where I got my Supra diff flange as well.

EDIT #2 UPDATE
The flange arrived today. I'm thinking of having it bronzed or gold-plated .

Here are some pics:




As expected, it is a perfect fit for the pilot diameter & bolt circle. It is great not having to machine/modify new parts.


Also as expected, the holes are smaller (8.7mm) than what are on the diff flange (10.6mm). I held it in place with some 5/16 bolts:


While this would work, there is too much slop in the fitment. I use a parts supplier called McMaster-Carr that has all sorts of obscure hardware such as 10mm metric shoulder bolts that are 8mm on the threaded part. The only issue is that they may be too short (25mm overall, need like 35mm to thread a nut & lockwasher). Since the diff flange is 10mm, I can thread the DS flange yoke to 10mm x 1.5 since the holes are the correct size for tapping, and use some regular 10mm x 25 or 30mm bolts.

I'm going to reseal the axle flanges while the diff is out.

Metric shoulder bolts:


UPDATE
I got the diff flange yoke threaded to 10mm x 1.5. Looks like I can use some flange head bolts w/ serrated heads that are 25mm long. Since the diff is kind of hard to get to once installed, what I may do instead is install some 10mm studs in the yoke, and then use some flange nuts on the diff side.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Now that I have almost everything to put the motor back together, it is time to look at how it is going to fit in place.

EDIT- Cleaning up the thread, deleting useless info, this mount plan was not needed.

rao

iTrader: (18)

That flange looks a lot like the early E36 Six bolt flange that I have. The lip is important since that is how the driveshaft is indexed, the bolts are just along for the ride. The driveshaft has a constant velocity joint at that end. Any decent driveshaft shop can build you one using an e36 driveshaft and a t-56 output flange. Simple

b005td

iTrader: (9)

damn this swap is madness
keep up the good work

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Today UPS blessed me with a pair of axles from Wisconsin and a pair of trailing arms from Texas. Everything is bigger there except for the cost of some used parts . The trailing arms were $300 local pickup, and $100 shipped (see flowchart above in post #78 with the $50 parts for $300 observation).


Axle parts
I measured the outer axle parts on the 525 and they were about 101mm in diameter. The ones I got were from a 735 and are 111mm. The axles were from a 540 automatic and the bolt pattern is correct for the outer axle parts as well as to the differential.


EDIT/UPDATE 10-19-07
The tool I needed (or thought I needed) arrived. Turns out the axle nut is 36mm, for which I already had a socket. I had to grind down the end of the 3/4 drive socket to get a good fit. These suckers take uber-torque to break loose. What I ended up doing was attaching some 1.25" angle with a .5" hole in one end to the outer hub using a lug stud. This kept the hub from turning, and I was able to use a large pipe over the 3/4 drive breaker bar to bust them all loose. I then used a large puller & a couple of long 10mm x 1.5 bolts to pull the flanges. Here are some comparison pics, the 525 flange is on the right:


This pic shows the tools needed to remove the flanges:






Installation was the reverse of the removal. Now most of the hard part is done, I need to reseal the axle flanges on the diff & then it can be installed.

Clutch fittings
My second shipment was metric fittings for the clutch system. One step forward and one sideways.


I am building a remote bleeder since the OEM setup sucks for access. The fitting that goes into the slave cylinder is what is known as a 10mm x 1.5 "long" fitting. I could not find one of these to an AN4, and the 10mm x 1.5 to AN4 I got from Pegasus would need to use a crush washer (apparently this is a common setup and there have been no reported problems). I got creative and cut off the end of the stock bleeder screw, drilled it out so fluid could pass straight through all the time, and bored out the end to 11/32. The 10mm x AN4 adapter would then slip in, so I welded the two together.

EDIT- Cleaning up the thread, deleting useless info. I suck at welding parts that carry fluids/gasses. The fitting leaked, so I went with the crush washer & thread sealant.



The 10mm x 1.0 convex to AN3 adapter (Pegasus PN 3265-16) fit right into the clutch master:




The problem came into play at the bleeder end. I got a set of Russell speed bleeders that were 10mm x 1.0 convex (end sticks out), The adapter I got for the 4AN hose was a Pegasus 3265-19, which is supposed to be 10mm x 1.0 concave (indented), but the piece I got was convex, so the two would not fit together.

EDIT- I used a drill bit to shape the piece so the bleeder would seal on it. It does not leak when pressure tested.

Passenger motor mount
Moved to another post!

glocklimited9

iTrader: (3)

wow man nice work, looks like a cool project, good luck

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Thanks for the kind words.

The weather here is really great for shop work, hopefully no more 100 degree days! It was 49 when I walked out to the shop this morning.

T56 test fit
This turned out to be the best surprise so far. I got the wagon lifted again & slid the T56 under it on a trans scissor jack. I then put the bellhousing on the T56 and lifted it. I had to use a floor jack to get the front in the approximate installed position.


How is this for shifter placement! The tape you see is covering the shifter opening, so I think I can use the T56 shifter w/o using any of the BMW stuff here.


View from underneath:


May have to do a little pounding here, but if it can work in this position it should not be needed. That is the OEM trans crossmember. Only two of the four bolts fit like this, so I think I will weld up some angle iron & make my own to allow use of an F-car mount. Looks like a simple job as far as something like this goes.

PS pump to C5 bracket
One benefit to prior swaps is the leftover material. I found a bar of 1.25" aluminum and cut/ground on it until it would line up with the C5 bracket. This took about half a day due to the recess in the bottom of the C5 bracket and shaping the bar to this opening. I drilled & tapped two 5/16-24 holes in the rear of the bar and then drilled out the 8mm holes in the C5 bracket. On the front side, I lined up the pump and drilled & tapped two 8mm x 1.25 holes to keep the bolt size the same as OEM.

It looks like a good belt alignment w/o any spacers as it is. Time will tell on this, though. I would also like to have the bar welded to the bracket for some added strength.




Plumbing
The bulk of my plumbing order came today. I still have a few specialty fittings & parts to order re-order due to my screw-ups. I put together some fittings on the Mallory FPR, the slave cylinder, and remote oil filter adapter.




I'm going to replace the fuel supply line with some 3/8 tubing and an inline filter. I'll reuse the return line via a barb adapter on the bottom of the FPR.

The stock BMW oil pressure & water temp (gauge) senders use 12mm x 1.5 thread. What I am going to do is use the 1/2 pipe opening on the top of the remote filter adapter and use a fuel block that has a 1/2 pipe inlet, two 3/8 pipe outlets, and a 1/8 pipe outlet. I drilled and tapped a brass 3/8 pipe bushing to 12mm x 1.5 and installed the BMW oil pressure sender:


It is hard to believe, but these cars do not come with an oil pressure gauge! I guess the sender works an idiot light. I'm going to add a trio of gauges on top of the center dash, an oil pressure gauge, a voltmeter, and a boost/vacuum gauge. The 1/8 pipe outlet on the fuel block will work for the aftermarket gauge.

EDIT/UPDATE 10-23-07
I found the Autogauge line of gauges, which are white needle/letters on black dial, similar to OEM gauges. They are also 2 & 5/8" vs. 2 & 1/16" and very inexpensive, so I am leaning towards these. I just need to find a 3 gauge panel for the top of the dash that will accept the larger gauges. The only drawback is the oil pressure is mechanical. I've never been a fan of having a potential oil leak inside the cabin.


I may mix & match them by using the EV Auto ones for the oil pressure & volts since I like the style better and the pressure gauge is electronic.

EDIT/UPDATE 10-25-07
I found a plastic "project box" at Allied Electronics that should be large enough to house three 2-5/8" gauges and not take up too much space on the top of the dash. It is PN 806-4180, made by Hammond. Their PN is 1595EBK. The box is 2.9" high, 8.4" wide, and 5.1" deep. It slopes off towards the rear, so this will be a good fit since the dash goes up & the windshield goes down. Here is a catalog pic of it:


Today was really a good one for this project, as I learned the BMW water temp sender will screw right into the passenger head, same thread!

I have one head reassembled & installed with the Yellow LS6 springs, MLS gaskets, and ARP bolts. My other head should be here the first part of next week so I can repeat the process. I plan on getting the old diff out now that I have the car lifted again, my 35mm socket should be here tomorrow so I can take the outer axles flanges off and complete that job.

Schitzo

iTrader: (6)

great that the shifter lines up with the hole on the car. Have you decided what gauges you are going with. The VDO vision series gauges have the same amber lighting as BMW so they look right at home when used in a BMW.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

I think I will stick with the Autogauge gauges listed above. They have the most similar appearance to the stock gauges (black dial, white letters & needle). I didn't look into illumination but I think it is pretty easy to get the lights the color you want with most companies. The VDO Vision in black has an orange needle and does not make a boost gauge , vacuum only, and we all know that sucks .

Another nice day on tap here, so I got an early start & thought I'd pull the diff. I had done this with two Supras in the air in about an hour- pull both diffs, completely install the one I was going to use & put the other one in with a few bolts to hold everything in place. Wishful thinking.

BMW must have cloned Arnold Schwarzenegger to assemble this stuff. I had to fight every axle bolt (1 vs 24) on both sets of flanges. I noted the bolts are 10mm x 1.5 x 50mm long, and have serrations under the heads, so maybe that is what was holding them in place so tight. I am going to replace them all since I don't like the idea of reusing a bolt that has been that tight. Once that was done, I found the drain plug is a 14mm hex. My largest hex key/socket was a 3/8. Then it occurred to me that I could use a 14mm head bolt with a double nut to pull it loose. It's just a drain plug, right? I mean it should not be torqued to 500 gazillion foot pounds, right? WRONG!

The double nut turned on the bolt.

Great idea #2 . I can weld a nut onto a bolt and turn it that way. I broke the bolt.

I can use a chisel and punch a notch into it and then loosen it with the chisel (Mr. Brutewrench method). This did the trick and I was able to drain the fluid. No go on the 750 diff as well, I am going to have to invest in yet another special tool to get the drain/fill plugs out. I'm going to go ahead & replace the axle seals on this while it is out.

EDIT
These "special" 14mm hex sockets can go for $20~40 plus shipping.
I found a metric drain plug socket set with 8 through 17mm hex drives (includes 14mm) for $15 at Harbor Freight Tools. PN is 94961-0VGA.

I found the axle diameter is the same (107mm) for both the 525 axles and the 540 ones, so the only difference is the flanges.

I shot some pics of the two diffs after I got the 525 one out. It did have a 4.10 tag on it.

The 525 diff is on the left.


The 525 diff is on the bottom. It was noted in a BMW forum that the 750 diff's nose is longer, and this bears that out.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

I tackled this issue last night & this morning. I measured the C5 accessory bracket and found that 2" angle iron (1/4" thick) fits in OK. There is a recess on the inside of the bracket for something- possibly one of the legs of the C5 alternator. I had to file this a little to let my bracket lay flat.

I cut the angle to length, and then cut down the angle in the center joint so I could bend one end of the angle. This allows it to mate up with a thin rib on the C5 bracket. I was going to put a bolt here, but there is no access to it once the angle is installed & the rib is too thin to drill & tap.

Once I saw this would work, I needed a way to attach the angle to the front hole on the C5 bracket. I welded some 1/8 steel onto the 2" angle iron so I had in effect a channel. I don't know if 2" channel would work here since I do not have any. If so, it would save this step.

After getting this cut & ground to fit, I drilled holes to let me bolt it to the C5 bracket. I drilled a 13/32 (.406) hole in the rear, and a 31/64 (.484) in the front. Hindsight being 20/20, this should have been a 3/8 hole. Once I had the bracket bolted in place I used a 10mm x 30 bolt with a lockwasher on the rear (had to grind down the angle here for clearance of the washer, the hole is close to the bottom of the angle iron). I never throw anything away, so I had some extra "T" head 3/8-24 bolts from my Moser 12 bolt install in the TA. I used one of these up front since with the weld material there was no room for a regular bolt or nut. A 3/8 socket head bolt could also be used here.

In order to mount the alternator, I had to do some more cutting and grinding. Once this was done, I threaded the lower mounting ear of the alternator t 7/16 fine thread (this ear has a diameter of like 10.5mm, so the tap went in with no problem). I then marked & drilled the bracket to allow a 7/16 bolt to locate here.

The bolts that go through the C5 bracket are 10mm. The top mounting ear has an inside diameter of 11mm. I have ordered a 12mm shoulder bolt that has reduced 10mm threads on the end. I will have to drill out the top mounting ear of the alternator to use this bolt, but this will eliminate 90% of the slop that is there now with the 10mm bolt. Belt alignment looks good, washers are needed to shim the rear of the top mounting ear to the C5 bracket.

I am also going to get some 1/2" threaded rod and weld this to a piece of 1/8 angle in order to create an adjustable support from the block to the rear mounting ear on the alternator. I'll update here once this is done.

Pics are worth 10,000 words especially for something like this:
Finished bracket:


Bracket installed, rear view:


Side view:


Bracket w/ alternator installed, rear view:


EDIT/UPDATE
I like ordering from McMaster-Carr. Order on Sunday, get it on Wednesday.

Today I got the 12mm shoulder bolt fro the top alternator location. I had to bore out the mounting ear on the alternator, but there is very little slop now:
Shoulder bolt is on lower right part of pic, the other bolts are for axle/motor mounting-


Here is the 1/2" threaded stud with 1/8 angle brackets on each end. I lined it up in place, clamped the bottom to that bracket & welded it (off the motor of course). It turned out better than expected, BUT, something is always in the way. In this case it was the water temp sensor. I was able to shim the top bracket away from the alternator and there is now enough clearance to remove & replace the water temp sensor plug.




Here is the 12mm shoulder bolt installed. I still need some 12mm washers on the end to shim it into place-


Gates K060930 93.625" belt used to measure belt length:


To measure the needed belt length, I wrapped the long belt around all the pulleys. I then put a heavy pipe on the wrench on the tensioner to hold it fully compressed. I then clamped the belt together to remove all slack using a pair of vice grips. Finally, I marked the belt where it joined together. I had 8.25" between the marks on this belt with the tensioner fully compressed. This means the shortest belt that would fit would be an 85.375" one. Gates makes an 85.5" model under PN K060849, so I will start here. The next longest belt is 85.875" , K060854.

The next hurdle will be when the headers arrive so I can see what conflicts will arise there.

need ls1 not wankel

iTrader: (1)

great work, it sounds like the UPS truck is at your house every other day, but i guess
u will have that when u work at an amazing pace like you do

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

FedEx is helping carry the load. I'm on UPS driver #2, I think the first guy hurt his back with all of the parts .

The pace is far from amazing (see flow chart above). It is like one step forward, two to the side, one backwards, and some days I don't seem to be moving at all. I can't finish one part of the build w/o running into something else I need or something that needs to be done or changed before I finish the original part.

Most of the current stuff should be shaped up within a couple of weeks. If nothing else, I want to get the motor & trans situated so I can see how the remaining stuff will fit or need to be made to fit.

Little victories like the T56 shifter fitment, the 12mm coolant temp sensor being a direct fit, & that diff flange yoke mean a lot.

chree

Awesome project. You have made amazing progress in just 8 weeks from your initial idea. Really inspirational. I daily drive an LT1/T56 Volvo wagon... sleepers rule.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Way cool wagon (love the color) and other projects as well. You do have a way to get that project car out of your basement, right? I'm reminded of the guy on the show NCIS that is building a boat in an apparently windowless & doorless basement .

That really sucks about your Malibu- nice looking car. I could tell you other stolen car "recovery" horror stories in Cobb & DeKalb Counties due to similar neglect/lack of communication, one with a stolen Juvenile Justice van (I wonder who this belongs to ???).

chree

Thanks for checking out my site. Funny you should mention getting the Chevelle out of the basement... our house is on a hill, so it's easy to get cars down to the basement, nearly impossible to get them back up. We plan to extend the driveway around to the basement...

Lessons learned from the Malibu theft: don't drive a "desirable" car to a junkyard in the ghetto and don't expect the police to care about your car getting stolen. I was told the only way the police would put any effort into recovery is if there are guns in the car.

End

This won't work in all cases. My volvo's tach gets it's signal straight from the coil, so the PCM signal is too weak. I needed the high voltage output from a Dakota Digital tach adapter to make my tach work.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Time for a rant.
Bozos

A Bozo is a nice word for someone that takes your money & knowingly sends you crappy parts, OR a seller can become a Bozo if they unknowingly sell you crappy parts and once you inform them of same they do nothing to make it right.

I've been fortunate in my two prior builds here not to have dealt with any Bozos (at least not sent any money to them). Unfortunately, I can't say the same for this one. The 317 head issue is now closed, and I'm out the money. The seller, 04gtoBMXracer, initially told me he would get me my money in 6-8 days. This was on 9-28. I had paid the same day we agreed on the package. I don't like to string people along if I am a buyer & won't hold money w/o shipping if I am a seller. Once I got the heads, I found they each had a broken exhaust bolt in them, one above the ports and the other below. I was able to extract the one above but not the one below. I notified the seller of this and he initially agreed to a $100 refund (I was not asking for the cost of a replacement head, which turned out to be $168).

Long story short, I never got the money refunded and filed a Paypal complaint. They took all of 30 seconds to decide they don't deal with the "quality" of the item shipped so my claim was denied.

Take my advice and don't deal with 04gtoBMXracer. I posted a negative transaction thread regarding this so hopefully no one else gets burned by him.

Doing the right thing
After getting my L33 motor, I sold a few parts from it to offset the cost of the ones I needed. I also got a T56 with a "30K mile" LS6 clutch disk, pressure plate, and TOB. I sold the clutch parts since I got a good deal on a superior (for my application) LS7 setup with flywheel, which I needed anyway due to the M6 conversion.

Last night I got a PM at 10:18 PM from the buyer informing me the pressure plate had a crack by one of the dowel pin holes. Since I had sold this stuff like the same day I got it, I had not done a detailed inspection on the parts other than to photograph them for the FS ad, and had missed this. I went ahead and gave the guy that had paid me a partial refund of just under half of his shipped total. He had his money back within 13 hours of notifying me of the problem. I did this because it was the right thing to do. I'm not going to screw someone over for $500, so I'm certainly not going to screw someone over for less than $100.

I'm sick & tired of people that don't care about anyone else here. Treat other members like you would want to be treated, because what comes around goes around.

End of rant.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Rob is referring to the Gen 3 operating system and editors like LS1 Edit or HP Tuners. I have HP Tuners and am vaguely familiar with the tach resolution he is talking about, but don't know the settings for 4 or 6 cylinder cars. The LT1 is wired differently, and uses a single coil vs. the multi-coil on plug of the Gen 3. I don't have or use any editing software for it.

Interestingly enough, my LT1 280Z tach (a Cobra reverse wind model) does not work from the PCM output, nor did the stock tach. My LM7 Supra tach only works when the car is shifted into reverse. I am using a Baker Electronix adapter on it, from the PCM tach output to the gauge feed by where the coil had been. The adapter's internal check function (number of LED flashes) works OK until it is connected to the PCM. I believe it is may be a signal strength issue but I have not looked into this any further due to moving & other projects. The RX7 uses an aftermarket dash (Racepak) and there have been no issues w/ the tach there.

Schitzo

iTrader: (6)

wow so many updates its getting hard to keep up with your pace. The diff flange looks purdy.