LQ4 swap into a 68 GTO A-body: Questions
09-14-2007, 08:15 PM
#63
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can I use the F-body windage tray? I am still trying to get the CTS-V windage tray, due to the time difference I have to wait until Tuesday evening here,
Could I use the F-body windage tray if no one can get me windage part #?
I need to get the swap going at this point.
TIA
Could I use the F-body windage tray if no one can get me windage part #?
I need to get the swap going at this point.
TIA
09-15-2007, 01:23 AM
#65
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CTS-V oil pan & related parts CTS-V
12598152 Engine Oil Pan/Reinforcement $131.33 S&H $28.89 Total $160.22
12584737 Stick $7.48 S&H $2.00 Total $9.13
12584738 Tube $9.07 S&H $1.65 Total $11.07
12577906 Screen $44.67 S&H $9.83 Total $54.50
12611129 Deflector $15.30 S&H $3.37 Total $18.67
Subtotal: $253.59
Well here is the complete parts list, I cross posted in the drive accessory FAQ also....
now to order this stuff...
12598152 Engine Oil Pan/Reinforcement $131.33 S&H $28.89 Total $160.22
12584737 Stick $7.48 S&H $2.00 Total $9.13
12584738 Tube $9.07 S&H $1.65 Total $11.07
12577906 Screen $44.67 S&H $9.83 Total $54.50
12611129 Deflector $15.30 S&H $3.37 Total $18.67
Subtotal: $253.59
Well here is the complete parts list, I cross posted in the drive accessory FAQ also....
now to order this stuff...
Last edited by josht; 09-15-2007 at 01:35 AM.
09-15-2007, 07:43 AM
#66
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I paid $160 and got basically the same thing.
Used CTS-V pan and tray: $75
New pick up tube and o-ring: $58
The dipstick stuff from the truck seems to fit fine.
Just for those who have less money and a bit more time to look around.
Used CTS-V pan and tray: $75
New pick up tube and o-ring: $58
The dipstick stuff from the truck seems to fit fine.
Just for those who have less money and a bit more time to look around.
09-15-2007, 07:51 AM
#67
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Within the next week or two I will pull the pan off my motor, pull the windage tray and compare it to the truck tray for all of those who can wait.
I will also be posting my solution to the clearance problem between the center link and oil pan once I get it done, since I once again recieved incorrect information from a member who had a different combination, yet assumed his solution would work for me.... Not his fault, this is uncharted territory for most.. Luckily, its wasn't an expensive mistake.
Bottom line is, if you have an aftermarket accessory drive, just about anything as far as motor mounts will work... If you're using the factory stuff with the ATS mounts, you MUST use the ATS "camaro" style motor mounts that come with the kit. The Chevelle mounts won't work with the stock AC compressor.
I will also be posting my solution to the clearance problem between the center link and oil pan once I get it done, since I once again recieved incorrect information from a member who had a different combination, yet assumed his solution would work for me.... Not his fault, this is uncharted territory for most.. Luckily, its wasn't an expensive mistake.
Bottom line is, if you have an aftermarket accessory drive, just about anything as far as motor mounts will work... If you're using the factory stuff with the ATS mounts, you MUST use the ATS "camaro" style motor mounts that come with the kit. The Chevelle mounts won't work with the stock AC compressor.
Last edited by QSPres; 09-15-2007 at 07:58 AM.
09-20-2007, 08:46 PM
#68
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So I finally picked up the CTS-V oil pump pickup tube today from the Caddy dealer. They, of course, never called me to say it was in like they said they would...
At the same time, I pulled the CTS-V windage tray and put it on the bench next to the LQ9 tray. EXACTLY the same. Measured end to end, side to side, even placed them on top of each other and every single bolt hole, bend, fold, and crease is identical.
The LQ9 dipstick tube and stick both clear the CTS-V tray and pickup tube with no problems and it also seems to go right to the bottom of the pan where the pickup tube goes.
I sold the stock 317 heads so I took them off tonight and put on my Stage II's so I could continue mockup and the motor is super clean. Barely any carbon on the valves, no signs of head gasket wear, no rust on any of the cylinder walls (which got a bath with Marvell Mystery Oil tonight). I also swapped on the F-body water pump and loosened everything else up for removal soon.
My frame mount spacers should be done tomorrow and I'm excited to see if they solve the ATS plate problems I'm having. Hopefully, I'll only have to do it once!
At the same time, I pulled the CTS-V windage tray and put it on the bench next to the LQ9 tray. EXACTLY the same. Measured end to end, side to side, even placed them on top of each other and every single bolt hole, bend, fold, and crease is identical.
The LQ9 dipstick tube and stick both clear the CTS-V tray and pickup tube with no problems and it also seems to go right to the bottom of the pan where the pickup tube goes.
I sold the stock 317 heads so I took them off tonight and put on my Stage II's so I could continue mockup and the motor is super clean. Barely any carbon on the valves, no signs of head gasket wear, no rust on any of the cylinder walls (which got a bath with Marvell Mystery Oil tonight). I also swapped on the F-body water pump and loosened everything else up for removal soon.
My frame mount spacers should be done tomorrow and I'm excited to see if they solve the ATS plate problems I'm having. Hopefully, I'll only have to do it once!
09-21-2007, 05:49 AM
#69
i have been reading all this stuff, getting ready to start on my 69 chevelle swap-for what its worth, chevelle used a diff frame mount on 307 v8's, and 350-454 used the same-so you might be able to swap that around to try something diff.-i will prob make up my own stuff, but i'll see how it goes
does the cts-v have a diff pan from all the others, that fits better?
i have a 4l80e i was going to go thru, wonder if a 4l65e would be a better choice, they seem to be getting stronger, i know JC at ati has been beating on one in his camero and its holding up-i plan on running a supercharger, but limit boost
i have been looking at using the L92 heads, L76 intake, but the 317 heads on my LQ4 are supposed to be pretty good, i might just keep them, a lot depends on condition of the engine-if i need to rebuil, i will swap in forged pistons
as i get into it, i will post up what i run into-thanks for all the info. keep it coming
does the cts-v have a diff pan from all the others, that fits better?
i have a 4l80e i was going to go thru, wonder if a 4l65e would be a better choice, they seem to be getting stronger, i know JC at ati has been beating on one in his camero and its holding up-i plan on running a supercharger, but limit boost
i have been looking at using the L92 heads, L76 intake, but the 317 heads on my LQ4 are supposed to be pretty good, i might just keep them, a lot depends on condition of the engine-if i need to rebuil, i will swap in forged pistons
as i get into it, i will post up what i run into-thanks for all the info. keep it coming
09-21-2007, 06:01 AM
#70
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The 307 frame mounts won't work with the Energy Suspension motor mounts. I don't think there is a poly mount for that frame mount.
Yes, the CTS-V pan is shallower than the truck pan in the sump, so its a bit more even with the bottom of the front crossmember and it's sump is shorter than the F-body pan, so there is more clearance for the front crossmember.
I think the 4L80E is pretty much a waste of HP unless you're building a race car... But there may be some out there who feel otherwise.
I would stick with the 317's if I were using a forced induction set up. You've already got most of the parts there, and unless you're building a max effort combination, you'll make good power with what you have.
I decided to go with a "standard" LS6/FAST setup because I want to run the 04+ GTO engine covers. Just a little something extra to **** off the "traditional" GTO guys...
Yes, the CTS-V pan is shallower than the truck pan in the sump, so its a bit more even with the bottom of the front crossmember and it's sump is shorter than the F-body pan, so there is more clearance for the front crossmember.
I think the 4L80E is pretty much a waste of HP unless you're building a race car... But there may be some out there who feel otherwise.
I would stick with the 317's if I were using a forced induction set up. You've already got most of the parts there, and unless you're building a max effort combination, you'll make good power with what you have.
I decided to go with a "standard" LS6/FAST setup because I want to run the 04+ GTO engine covers. Just a little something extra to **** off the "traditional" GTO guys...
09-21-2007, 06:02 AM
#71
We need to get a comprehensive A-body thread going that can be made into a sticky, would save people a ton of time searching and others answering questions
While I'm at it maybe I'll have to start offering you guys some A-body swap parts in addition to my G-body stuff!
09-21-2007, 09:50 AM
#73
The CTS-V pan does hang a bit lower that the F-Body, about 1" pass the X-member. I currently have on in my 71' Chevelle. As long as your not dropping it to the ground, you will be ok. I have no incidents of the pan hitting anything.
If you use a 4L80e, you most likely will have to do some Trans Tunnel cutting.
JohnB. I think it is a great sticky to get going. There are enough A and G body swap done that can add info. (but your web site already does a great job in documenting the swap and what can be involved)
If you use a 4L80e, you most likely will have to do some Trans Tunnel cutting.
JohnB. I think it is a great sticky to get going. There are enough A and G body swap done that can add info. (but your web site already does a great job in documenting the swap and what can be involved)
09-21-2007, 03:50 PM
#74
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I was thinking today that we really could use a sticky.... If we could cut out all the questions...
Perhaps it should be segmented into the three different "types" of motor mount kits that one can use. All the ones out there seem to start from either ATS, BRP, or whatever the third one is... That way, whatever kit someone buys, they can go to the appropriate section and it will be faster for them..
Perhaps it should be segmented into the three different "types" of motor mount kits that one can use. All the ones out there seem to start from either ATS, BRP, or whatever the third one is... That way, whatever kit someone buys, they can go to the appropriate section and it will be faster for them..
03-16-2008, 06:21 PM
#76
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some progress on the swap: new engine L92 6.2L well after getting ready to put in the LQ4, I will be going with a 6.2L L92.
I plan on using the drive accessories off the LQ4 (LS1 gen III) with a power bond 25% under drive, speartech tensioner, L92 intake, LS1 water pump pulley, CTS-V oil pan and ???.
I will eventually be removing the VVT stuff, right now hoping to get the car suspension done and roll cage installed by April/May...
I saw Andrew's L92 swap, mine is no where near ready to be done before his.
The front and rear VFN pieces still need to have work done to them.
The brake stuff, pedal ect also need to be purchased...
I plan on using the drive accessories off the LQ4 (LS1 gen III) with a power bond 25% under drive, speartech tensioner, L92 intake, LS1 water pump pulley, CTS-V oil pan and ???.
I will eventually be removing the VVT stuff, right now hoping to get the car suspension done and roll cage installed by April/May...
I saw Andrew's L92 swap, mine is no where near ready to be done before his.
The front and rear VFN pieces still need to have work done to them.
The brake stuff, pedal ect also need to be purchased...
Last edited by josht; 03-18-2008 at 03:35 PM.
03-18-2008, 03:51 AM
#77
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Engine Build up: is this a decent plan?? Well since I have not sold the LQ4:
Use the Gen III accessories, purchase a starter..
change the LS1 F-body water pump pulley to the truck water pump
purchase a speartech tensioner
New water pump gasket for the truck water pump
use the LS1 power bond 25% under drive pulley
purchase the L92 intake, reuse the bolts, gaskets, truck fuel rails, injectors, TB for now.
purchase the Edelbrock headers #65073, $608.87 list ?? from Jeggs ??
purchase MLS exhaust gaskets and bolts
replace the balancer with ???
use the 05-06 GTO master cylinder and power brake booster
purchase the GTO brake pedal assembly
purchase the rest of the CTS-V oil pan stuff: oil pan gasket, pickup tube o-ring, dipstick and tube and windage tray.
purchase a dbw setup from speartech
purchase a 100mm+ TB and maf from Texas speed?
Purchase a LS1 corvette TPS, maf sensor and TB motor
engine stuff:
LS2 Valley Cover part # ???
LS2 Lifter Retainer Trays 12595365
LS2/LS7 lifters or the caddy lifters
LS2 Timing cover w/4x cam sensor from SDparts {for a 58x aka LS3 ???}
LS2 4x cam sprocket from SDparts {for a 58x aka LS3 ???}
new camshaft from LG or Patrick G ???
new/rebuild/port the L92 heads ??
ARP head bolts
LS6 or LS3 ported oil pump
ARP bolts for the water pump, oil pan, rod bolts...
let me know if I am missing anything
TIA
I forgot the billet Fuel Rails
I need the part # for the cam sensor that goes with the Timing cover
I will be using a VVT to non-VVT kit from LPE that includes a sprocket
I want to use a 2 piece Timing cover, - Edelbrock # 4255 2-Piece Timing Cover LS1, LS2, LS6, have to remove the vvt stuff (duh)
Use the Gen III accessories, purchase a starter..
change the LS1 F-body water pump pulley to the truck water pump
purchase a speartech tensioner
New water pump gasket for the truck water pump
use the LS1 power bond 25% under drive pulley
purchase the L92 intake, reuse the bolts, gaskets, truck fuel rails, injectors, TB for now.
purchase the Edelbrock headers #65073, $608.87 list ?? from Jeggs ??
purchase MLS exhaust gaskets and bolts
replace the balancer with ???
use the 05-06 GTO master cylinder and power brake booster
purchase the GTO brake pedal assembly
purchase the rest of the CTS-V oil pan stuff: oil pan gasket, pickup tube o-ring, dipstick and tube and windage tray.
purchase a dbw setup from speartech
purchase a 100mm+ TB and maf from Texas speed?
Purchase a LS1 corvette TPS, maf sensor and TB motor
engine stuff:
LS2 Valley Cover part # ???
LS2 Lifter Retainer Trays 12595365
LS2/LS7 lifters or the caddy lifters
LS2 Timing cover w/4x cam sensor from SDparts {for a 58x aka LS3 ???}
LS2 4x cam sprocket from SDparts {for a 58x aka LS3 ???}
new camshaft from LG or Patrick G ???
new/rebuild/port the L92 heads ??
ARP head bolts
LS6 or LS3 ported oil pump
ARP bolts for the water pump, oil pan, rod bolts...
let me know if I am missing anything
TIA
I forgot the billet Fuel Rails
I need the part # for the cam sensor that goes with the Timing cover
I will be using a VVT to non-VVT kit from LPE that includes a sprocket
I want to use a 2 piece Timing cover, - Edelbrock # 4255 2-Piece Timing Cover LS1, LS2, LS6, have to remove the vvt stuff (duh)
Last edited by josht; 03-29-2008 at 06:00 AM.
04-05-2008, 07:59 PM
#78
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trying to track down part #'s If someone could help me out with part #'s for these items
water pump gasket for a 05 GMC LQ4 truck water pump # 12559271 replaced with 12588372
LS3 balancer and bolt part #'s 12601402
103MM Bolt: # 12557840
110.5MM Bolt: # 11570046
LS2 Valley Cover part # 12570471
LS2 Timing cover w/4x cam sensor {for a 58x aka LS3}
LS2 4x cam sprocket {for a 58x aka LS3}
LS1 corvette Throttle Position Sensor # 17113566
LS1 corvette Throttle Body motor # 17113669 {the motor is not available separately @#!#)
I don't know which balancer to use ::
- use a LS3 balancer with LS1 GEN III accessories?
- should I use the LS1 balancer from the LQ4 ??
- should I use the L92 balancer on the engine?
um ???
Well I am sure I will run into more stuff I need parts #'s for...
TTT
water pump gasket for a 05 GMC LQ4 truck water pump # 12559271 replaced with 12588372
LS3 balancer and bolt part #'s 12601402
103MM Bolt: # 12557840
110.5MM Bolt: # 11570046
LS2 Valley Cover part # 12570471
LS2 Timing cover w/4x cam sensor {for a 58x aka LS3}
LS2 4x cam sprocket {for a 58x aka LS3}
LS1 corvette Throttle Position Sensor # 17113566
LS1 corvette Throttle Body motor # 17113669 {the motor is not available separately @#!#)
I don't know which balancer to use ::
- use a LS3 balancer with LS1 GEN III accessories?
- should I use the LS1 balancer from the LQ4 ??
- should I use the L92 balancer on the engine?
um ???
Well I am sure I will run into more stuff I need parts #'s for...
TTT
Last edited by josht; 04-22-2008 at 06:22 AM.
04-08-2008, 05:50 PM
#79
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Still working on some part #'s Well I need these part #'s
LS2/LS3 Cam sensor for 58x reluxor
LS2/LS3 cam sprocket for 58x reluxor
well I sent a PM to Andrew and came up with the answer on the accessories and balancer:
The balancer you use is determined by the accessories that you want to run, and whether you want to keep the VVT. So...
Do you want the VVT? If so, than you must use the truck accessories and you can use the L92 balancer.
If you do not want to keep the VVT then you have to decide what accessories you want to run. F-body, Corvette, GTO, etc...You get the idea.
Andrew
--
I want to run Truck LS1 GEN III accessories from a LQ4 that I have with out the VVT.
I know you can not mix and match accessories even truck stuff, so I would reuse what I already have.
so use the ballancer from the LQ4 with a new LS1 bolt? or use a LS2 bolt since the crank is a LS2 style?
---
You can use your truck accessories on the L92 engine. Just use the L92 balancer, which has the same offset as the older truck balancers. All the balancer bolts are the same.
Andrew
---
So other than possibly buying a new balancer bolt, I don't have to do much with the Truck LS1 GEN III accessories from the LQ4. I still need a tensioner and have to change the water pump pulley but that is cheaper than buying a whole new set of drive accessories.
LS2/LS3 Cam sensor for 58x reluxor
LS2/LS3 cam sprocket for 58x reluxor
well I sent a PM to Andrew and came up with the answer on the accessories and balancer:
The balancer you use is determined by the accessories that you want to run, and whether you want to keep the VVT. So...
Do you want the VVT? If so, than you must use the truck accessories and you can use the L92 balancer.
If you do not want to keep the VVT then you have to decide what accessories you want to run. F-body, Corvette, GTO, etc...You get the idea.
Andrew
--
I want to run Truck LS1 GEN III accessories from a LQ4 that I have with out the VVT.
I know you can not mix and match accessories even truck stuff, so I would reuse what I already have.
so use the ballancer from the LQ4 with a new LS1 bolt? or use a LS2 bolt since the crank is a LS2 style?
---
You can use your truck accessories on the L92 engine. Just use the L92 balancer, which has the same offset as the older truck balancers. All the balancer bolts are the same.
Andrew
---
So other than possibly buying a new balancer bolt, I don't have to do much with the Truck LS1 GEN III accessories from the LQ4. I still need a tensioner and have to change the water pump pulley but that is cheaper than buying a whole new set of drive accessories.
04-15-2008, 06:43 PM
#80
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so are these the part #'s I need? Well I need these part #'s
LS2/LS3 Cam sensor for 58x reluxor
LS2/LS3 cam sprocket for 58x reluxor
so are these the part #'s I need?
Front cover including cam sensor = 12600325
(Cam sensor grey from a 4x will work with earlier 05 LS2 cam gear)
Cam sprocket part No = 12576407
Cam dampener = 12588670 (use the black one with 05 LS2 cam gear)
can I use the Cam sensor that came with the L92?
TIA
LS2/LS3 Cam sensor for 58x reluxor
LS2/LS3 cam sprocket for 58x reluxor
so are these the part #'s I need?
Front cover including cam sensor = 12600325
(Cam sensor grey from a 4x will work with earlier 05 LS2 cam gear)
Cam sprocket part No = 12576407
Cam dampener = 12588670 (use the black one with 05 LS2 cam gear)
can I use the Cam sensor that came with the L92?
TIA