LS1 into a Cadillac Catera (56K=death)
09-10-2007, 09:40 AM
#21
Hey Hans:
Looks like a cool build, and you already have a lot of stuff needed for the swap. You may be able to source some parts needed for your swap off of the Vauxhall VXR8, which appears to be the same platform as the Holden/Opel. I think that the VXR8 hasn't been out too long, but I bet there are already wrecks in the UK.
Looks like a cool build, and you already have a lot of stuff needed for the swap. You may be able to source some parts needed for your swap off of the Vauxhall VXR8, which appears to be the same platform as the Holden/Opel. I think that the VXR8 hasn't been out too long, but I bet there are already wrecks in the UK.
09-10-2007, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans Grüber
Agree with you that it this swap is not for everyone and would likely not be worth it economically when compared to a used CTS-V.
However I did already have the car and simply the sheer uniqueness of reproducing a cancelled model using real pre-production prototype parts is something in of itself. Also these cars have enormous depreciation and you can find a very low mileage model in excellent condition for as low a $5000-6000.
Also you can’t beat the sleeper aspect of this, particularly when most people think that these cars are FWD
(I'll also have a stronger diff. than the CTS-V
)
(the weight is not too bad, 3770 compared to 3850 for the V, this will likely increase though when I'm done)
However I did already have the car and simply the sheer uniqueness of reproducing a cancelled model using real pre-production prototype parts is something in of itself. Also these cars have enormous depreciation and you can find a very low mileage model in excellent condition for as low a $5000-6000.
Also you can’t beat the sleeper aspect of this, particularly when most people think that these cars are FWD
(I'll also have a stronger diff. than the CTS-V
)(the weight is not too bad, 3770 compared to 3850 for the V, this will likely increase though when I'm done)
3510 lbs curb for a stock cts so it is close to 300 lbs difference with a V6 catera. I was really wishing they weighed less but it is difficult to shave pounds in the fatter late model cars.
The diff is fine. It is not actually the weak spot, but what holds.it that is tuned for nvh.
Norm
09-12-2007, 01:37 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Chris442
Now you've got me curious, so I'll have to go out in the shed and measure.
Originally Posted by Chris442
Was the diff that you have sourced from Australia? It looks very close to the GTO part, but it looks a bit narrower. Looking at the cover, it looks like it could be swapped for the Holden part at least in terms of bolting together. The fill and drain look identical, but the tag says LSD on mine. That 3.07 gear will be pretty tall if you use a T56, too. With the auto that they show in the manual, I'd imagine that gear was necessary to give the top speed the Germans wanted. All GTOs regardless of transmission have 3.46s. The manual with that gear and the speed limiter removed can reach approximately 180 mph in 5th gear. The 3.07 with a T56 would put the top end in the stratosphere, although you'd get excellent highway fuel economy. You've probably already thought this out, but the transmission from a GTO, RPO M12, would, IMHO, be best for your car as it has lower gearing than its f-body equivalent.
These differentials are hybrids consisting of Dana and Borg Warner components. It is essentially a Dana M80.
http://www.autopages.com.au/gearbox_...ferentials.php
http://www.spiceraxle.com.au/products.htm
In the above link you can actually see this Omega V8 diff in the rotating gif image. I don’t thinks it’s narrower. The only difference on this specific differential from the GTO one is the cover and the mounting bushing on the front.
09-12-2007, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve VanS
Hey Hans:
Looks like a cool build, and you already have a lot of stuff needed for the swap. You may be able to source some parts needed for your swap off of the Vauxhall VXR8, which appears to be the same platform as the Holden/Opel. I think that the VXR8 hasn't been out too long, but I bet there are already wrecks in the UK.
Looks like a cool build, and you already have a lot of stuff needed for the swap. You may be able to source some parts needed for your swap off of the Vauxhall VXR8, which appears to be the same platform as the Holden/Opel. I think that the VXR8 hasn't been out too long, but I bet there are already wrecks in the UK.
http://ls2gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24348
The most helpful components from this car may be some electricals, since I beleive it uses the same Bosch 5.3 ABS/TC unit and I would like to retain traction control functionality. I cannot do this with a Camaro PCM since the Catera uses a CAN bus to communicate between the PCM and Bosch ABS/TC and the Camaro's used some other protocol.
09-12-2007, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Norm '88 GT
The diff is fine. It is not actually the weak spot, but what holds.it that is tuned for nvh.
Norm
09-12-2007, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans Grüber
The diffs. on the CTS-V are very weak and fail quite often, some owners having replaced several.
Last edited by Norm '88 GT; 09-12-2007 at 03:06 PM.
09-12-2007, 04:18 PM
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I have an 04 GTO and posted in your thread over at LS1gto abvout who to write to get the pcm info.
Those parts are cold beer and firm bewbies IMO. Factory swap stuff which was never done...very cool.
The rear you have there looks like the earlier Commodore piece than our Goats came with (M80 Dana).
This is a good thing in some ways, as the shortest gear we can swap to is 3.91, but the earlier Holdens could go up to 4.10, and IIRC, even a 4.5x is available.
Email Kurt at Difftechnics in Sydney for details. With a Kaaz LSd and 4.10s and a T 56 you are gonna fly!
Those parts are cold beer and firm bewbies IMO. Factory swap stuff which was never done...very cool.
The rear you have there looks like the earlier Commodore piece than our Goats came with (M80 Dana).
This is a good thing in some ways, as the shortest gear we can swap to is 3.91, but the earlier Holdens could go up to 4.10, and IIRC, even a 4.5x is available.
Email Kurt at Difftechnics in Sydney for details. With a Kaaz LSd and 4.10s and a T 56 you are gonna fly!
09-12-2007, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NemeSS
those are the ugliest ls manifolds i hav ever seen
but im sure they will do there job
but im sure they will do there job
The Australian version of the V-platform had its front strut towers moved apart by over 2-inches.
09-15-2007, 10:18 PM
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So Hans... any new info? Im dying to learn all I can about this swap before I proceed onto doing this. I dont have a shop of my own nor the tools, so unfortunately im going to have to pay a mechanic to install this for me. Therefor I would like to have this a almost completely bolt in application or its gets quite costly otherwise. However cost is something I have considered and it is not an option, I will have this project complete. lol, I bought the car for this reason. I had a look at the Sub-frame on my V6 Catera and it is not completely the same as the prototype sub-frame you have. Would you be able to confirm that the V6 sub-frame could be used? Id very much appreciate this. (no worries if you cant) thank you.
09-15-2007, 10:32 PM
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Quick thought... Im not sure if anybody has mentioned it in this forum, but Lingenfelter (LPE) did a 2001 (i think) Catera with a C5R vette engine. they had trouble with the headers. Id explain but the pictures do justice lol. LET US MAKE THIS SWAP HAPPEN. Im not sure how many people have done this swap. To the best of my knowledge i think we will be the first to do this, Hans. Beside LPE of course. (If im wrong let me know and PLEASE ASSIST US IN OUR PROJECTS!) lol. Anyway ive enclosed a bit of sugar to the winter long coffee i will be drinking involving this project. No rest for the wicked!
Last edited by Dani K; 09-17-2007 at 05:29 PM.
09-17-2007, 03:29 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Hans Grüber
But unfortunately in GM’s infinite wisdom, they cancelled the car at the very last minute for reasons that remain unknown..
09-17-2007, 04:28 PM
#33
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Dani:
I have no powertrain at the moment and I'm not planning to begin this swap for at least a few months (if anyone knows where to get a powertrain at a good price, plase PM me).
I think you'll have a very tough time finding any mechanic to do this. You'll have to go to a more specialized performance shop that has prior experience doing these types of things. Having someone do this will be very expensive.
That Catera done by LPE is currently the only Catera V8 conversion anywhere.
I have no powertrain at the moment and I'm not planning to begin this swap for at least a few months (if anyone knows where to get a powertrain at a good price, plase PM me).
I think you'll have a very tough time finding any mechanic to do this. You'll have to go to a more specialized performance shop that has prior experience doing these types of things. Having someone do this will be very expensive.
That Catera done by LPE is currently the only Catera V8 conversion anywhere.
09-17-2007, 04:35 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Jon @ Speed Inc
On an OEM quality level they could not keep the car running cool. The engine bay is very tight.
The engine bay is not all that tight. You only get that impression because there are a lot of components that intrude, such as the steering box.
I believe the cancellation of the V8 Catera had more to do with the introduction of the CTS and the slow North American sales of the Catera. The V8 model was going to be introduced in the 2001 model year which also was the final model year of this car in North America. GM likely did not see it as a good investment.
09-17-2007, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans Grüber
I believe the cancellation of the V8 Catera had more to do with the introduction of the CTS and the slow North American sales of the Catera. The V8 model was going to be introduced in the 2001 model year which also was the final model year of this car in North America. GM likely did not see it as a good investment.
09-18-2007, 07:21 AM
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Crap, I was wrong. Not as close to the arctic as I thought. For some reason I thought that this place was up in the Yukon
GM Cold Weather Development Centre
204 Government Road West
Kapuskasing, Ontario
Still tho, -22*F is damn cold! They say the average snow fall is 8+ feet a year.
Link
GM Cold Weather Development Centre
204 Government Road West
Kapuskasing, Ontario
Still tho, -22*F is damn cold! They say the average snow fall is 8+ feet a year.
Link
09-18-2007, 08:38 AM
#38
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Hans,
Very cool finding those parts
Where are you located? In Europe?
I have a 2001 Omega Caravan and I really wished that they had put that V8 in to production. I don't think that it was only meant for the US market. It would probably sold well in Europe too were the Omega is popular. The last year they made it was 2003 and after that there is no RWD cars produced by GM in Europe.
I believe the decision also had to do with the cancelation of the V and Z platforms. The Omega could have lived a while longer.
For us who have the Omega and like them there is no alternative from GM anymore. I've seen some rumours about something in 2009 but that has to be seen...
Jan
Very cool finding those parts
Where are you located? In Europe?
I have a 2001 Omega Caravan and I really wished that they had put that V8 in to production. I don't think that it was only meant for the US market. It would probably sold well in Europe too were the Omega is popular. The last year they made it was 2003 and after that there is no RWD cars produced by GM in Europe.
I believe the decision also had to do with the cancelation of the V and Z platforms. The Omega could have lived a while longer.
For us who have the Omega and like them there is no alternative from GM anymore. I've seen some rumours about something in 2009 but that has to be seen...
Jan
09-18-2007, 04:42 PM
#39
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I'm located in Toronto, Canada. You are not the first to ask this, I'm surprised no one recognizes the landmark in the first picture 
GM did not cancel the zeta platform. It will likely make its way into Europe as it is presently already available in the UK as the VXR.
GM did not cancel the zeta platform. It will likely make its way into Europe as it is presently already available in the UK as the VXR.
09-19-2007, 12:19 AM
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Your name sounds very German and I guessed that you did find the parts in Germany. You must have some good connections in Germany to find this stuff.
Well they did cancel the Z but the Australians probably didn't listen. GM had long going plans for a 2007 Camaro based on the Z but it got postponed when they closed the Z. We can be grateful that Holden kept it alive.
Jan
Well they did cancel the Z but the Australians probably didn't listen. GM had long going plans for a 2007 Camaro based on the Z but it got postponed when they closed the Z. We can be grateful that Holden kept it alive.
Jan