LS1 into a 944 discussion.
08-26-2008, 04:45 PM
#21
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I'd love to do a swap like this too. There has been a fairly clean 944 "project car" sitting in a driveway around the corner from me for 10 years. I just need to finish up all my other projects before I go and try to convince the owner to sell...
Ryph
Ryph
08-26-2008, 08:30 PM
#22
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Here is a forum dedicated to V8s in 944s. I've also wanted to do this for a long time.
http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/
http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/
08-27-2008, 11:59 AM
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However, I'll stop cluttering up this thread with unrelated stuff....Back to the original topic of LSX 944
'JustDreamin'
08-31-2008, 12:39 AM
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Some say doing the swap on a 928 is much easier since it's already a V8 and there's much more room under the hood. I'd do a blown LT1 in a 928 if i had the cash, i was trying to figure out the costs but it's waaaay out of my budget! Anyhow, good luck with your build.
08-31-2008, 11:26 AM
#26
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me too!! I'd love to do a 928 swap. But, those cars are hard to find and the early ones are ugly and usually pretty ragged out. To find a nice, clean 1990+ you are gonna spend more to buy it and convert it than you would to buy a nice C5 Z06
10-01-2008, 08:57 AM
#30
Renegade Hybrids conversion parts costs Introducing the new General Motors LS-1 all aluminum fuel injected V-8. With over 300 HP, and approaching 350 FPT stock, this abundant late model motor has become our new pick for the 944 conversions. The ideal motor of choice for this conversion is the '98 and later F body (Camaro-Firebird-TransAm) power plant because the serpentine accessory package fits perfectly in the 944 engine bay. It even fits under the stock hood! ( picture )
The best news is the weight savings. Compared to a Small Block Chevy with all the typical trimmings, the complete LS-1 package is over 140 lbs lighter. Even if the SBC had aluminum heads and an aluminum intake, the weight savings is still over 90 lbs.
Here is a better way to compare the weight. If you were to take a 944 turbo (951), and remove the Porsche engine and all the supporting systems like the intercooler and oil cooler, then install a stock LS-1 with AC, power steering, the works, your weight bias from front to rear would stay within 1% of stock! Yet, your HP and, especially your torque, would increase substantially. In addition no more costly timing belt repairs, clutch jobs, turbo fires, chronic exhaust issues, well, you get the point!
Finally, the cost! We have had many customers come to us after spending 10's of thousands of dollars for that 'Big Turbo Motor' I referred to previously. Sure, the initial investment into the engine and turbo upgrades to exceed 300+ HP was a moderate $9,000.00, but the maintenance costs quickly sped past that figure after only a few years. Then with the issue of reliability leaving you stranded with the wife, or dead at the track, our customers couldn't wait to drop-kick the four cylinder in favor of the Chevy V-8.
NOTE: For all the 924 owners (excluding '87-'88 924S) looking to do a conversion, I'm sorry to say, we discontinued our 924 kits years ago. We found that the 924 platform could not properly support the cumbersome "U" shaped motor mount that is required. If this was not enough, to safely complete the conversion, you would need to change, the brakes, the torque tube, transaxle, "CV" axles, and the whole clutch pedal assembly, which adds greatly to the difficulty of the kit. If you attempted to retain the 924 drive train, not only was it too weak for even a mild V-6, the gear ratios were also completely wrong. Finally, with countless free 924's popping up all over, the $8000 cost (plus your motor) to do the conversion correctly seems far and way too expensive.
Basic Parts List
Here are the LS-1 kit prices as well as the options list. For further clarification or additional question, you are welcome to call us toll free at (866) 498-2421 or e-mail us at info@renegadehybrids.com. Thank you for your interest in our newest line of Porsche 944 to Chevy conversion kits. --- Renegade custom adapter-bellhousing complete and pre assembled with hydraulic throw out bearing, custom hydraulic hose and fittings, and mounting hardware.
--- Custom 12 inch LS-1 clutch disc with Porsche center spline.
--- Renegade motor mount kit complete with uprights, billet block plates, rubber isolators, and hardware.
--- Renegade custom LS-1 road race oil pan and pick up.
--- LS-1 remote oil filter mount.
--- Renegade cross member and sway bar drop kit.
--- Custom 944 to LS-1 pilot bearing.
--- Renegade brake master cylinder mount and pushrod.
--- Custom ignition coil mount bracket.
$2,100 Complete LS-1 kit for 924S, 944, 951 and 968 Porsches, hardware and instructions. For design and application purposes, parts will not be sold separately.
Optional Parts
$899 RENEGADE 944 TO LS-1 COMPLETE COOLING SYSTEM: Including high efficiency custom radiator, HP puller fan and mounts, thermostatic control switch, 30 amp relay, and pre-wired harness, assembled and ready for installation in the stock 944 radiator location.
$849 RENEGADE CUSTOM BUILT LS-1 HIGH FLOW HEADERS: With 1 ¾-inch primaries and 3-inch collectors. ( picture )
$200 CERAMIC HEADER COATING: High temperature polished coating inside and out.
$145 CUSTOM REMOTE FILTER OIL LINES: One pair with all needed fittings.
$25 COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENDING UNIT: With correct VDO output. Please specify your gauge value when ordering.
$45 OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT: With correct VDO output. Please specify your gauge value when ordering.
$35 CUSTOM OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT ADAPTER
$355 KEVLAR HIGH PERFORMANCE CLUTCH DISC UPGRADE: $100 added to upgrade stock disc included with basic conversion kit.
$440 STOCK 12" GENUINE GM FLYWHEEL AND PRESSURE PLATE
$335 HIGH PERFORMANCE STAGE-TWO YELLOW PRESSURE PLATE
$245 LS-1 CUSTOM FUEL REGULATOR/FILTER/RETURN COMPLETE KIT: With correct fittings for your Porsche stock fuel lines.
$140 / pr. ENERGY SUSPENSION MOTOR MOUNT UPGRADE: Plus mount modification. $90 added to upgrade stock mounts included with basic conversion kit.
$145 SWIVEL 180-DEGREE THERMOSTAT AND HOUSING: For added frame rail clearance over stock LS-1 thermostat.
$130 / pr. CUSTOM BUILT POWER STEERING LINES: Cores required.
$240 STOCK GENUINE GM LS-1 CAMARO STARTER: New
From $390 LS-1 COMPUTER PROGRAMMING: Available with complete emissions all the way to full race.
From $450 LS-1 TO 944 COMPLETE CUSTOM MODIFIED FUEL INJECTION HARNESS: With emissions.
From $425 LS-1 TO 944 COMPLETE CUSTOM FUEL INJECTION HARNESS: Without emissions.
$285 LS-1/LT-1 CUSTOM CV/TRANSAXLE MOUNTED SPEED SENSOR KIT: With reluctor ring and GM plug.
$140 LS-1 COMPUTER: Programming required, core charge $250
$29 LS-1/LT-1 RIGHT ANGLE THROTTLE BODY INTAKE BOOT: 4 inch to 3.5 inch.
$29 LS-1/LT-1 RIGHT ANGLE INTAKE BOOT: 3.5 inch to 3.5 inch.
$20 ft. LS-1/LT-1 ALUMINUM 3.5" INTAKE TUBING
$85 LS-1 TO 944 CUSTOM THROTTLE CABLE
$29 HEATER CONTROL H VALVE: The LS-1 heater return loop must remain intact for the required bypass system designed into the motor. If you plan to run a heater, this type of H valve is required.
$125 LS-1/LT-1 OPTIMA BILLET BATTERY TRAY: For cell relocation.
$2,950 944 "BIG RED" BRAKE UPGRADE KIT: Complete with 993 twin turbo four piston calipers and new pads, caliper adapters, 993 turbo rotors, custom brake lines, used late model turbo struts and hubs, 928 proportioning valve, and hardware.
$180 LS-1 POWER STEERING DELETE KIT: For manual rack application.
Tech Article
The best news is the weight savings. Compared to a Small Block Chevy with all the typical trimmings, the complete LS-1 package is over 140 lbs lighter. Even if the SBC had aluminum heads and an aluminum intake, the weight savings is still over 90 lbs.
Here is a better way to compare the weight. If you were to take a 944 turbo (951), and remove the Porsche engine and all the supporting systems like the intercooler and oil cooler, then install a stock LS-1 with AC, power steering, the works, your weight bias from front to rear would stay within 1% of stock! Yet, your HP and, especially your torque, would increase substantially. In addition no more costly timing belt repairs, clutch jobs, turbo fires, chronic exhaust issues, well, you get the point!
Finally, the cost! We have had many customers come to us after spending 10's of thousands of dollars for that 'Big Turbo Motor' I referred to previously. Sure, the initial investment into the engine and turbo upgrades to exceed 300+ HP was a moderate $9,000.00, but the maintenance costs quickly sped past that figure after only a few years. Then with the issue of reliability leaving you stranded with the wife, or dead at the track, our customers couldn't wait to drop-kick the four cylinder in favor of the Chevy V-8.
NOTE: For all the 924 owners (excluding '87-'88 924S) looking to do a conversion, I'm sorry to say, we discontinued our 924 kits years ago. We found that the 924 platform could not properly support the cumbersome "U" shaped motor mount that is required. If this was not enough, to safely complete the conversion, you would need to change, the brakes, the torque tube, transaxle, "CV" axles, and the whole clutch pedal assembly, which adds greatly to the difficulty of the kit. If you attempted to retain the 924 drive train, not only was it too weak for even a mild V-6, the gear ratios were also completely wrong. Finally, with countless free 924's popping up all over, the $8000 cost (plus your motor) to do the conversion correctly seems far and way too expensive.
Basic Parts List
Here are the LS-1 kit prices as well as the options list. For further clarification or additional question, you are welcome to call us toll free at (866) 498-2421 or e-mail us at info@renegadehybrids.com. Thank you for your interest in our newest line of Porsche 944 to Chevy conversion kits. --- Renegade custom adapter-bellhousing complete and pre assembled with hydraulic throw out bearing, custom hydraulic hose and fittings, and mounting hardware.
--- Custom 12 inch LS-1 clutch disc with Porsche center spline.
--- Renegade motor mount kit complete with uprights, billet block plates, rubber isolators, and hardware.
--- Renegade custom LS-1 road race oil pan and pick up.
--- LS-1 remote oil filter mount.
--- Renegade cross member and sway bar drop kit.
--- Custom 944 to LS-1 pilot bearing.
--- Renegade brake master cylinder mount and pushrod.
--- Custom ignition coil mount bracket.
$2,100 Complete LS-1 kit for 924S, 944, 951 and 968 Porsches, hardware and instructions. For design and application purposes, parts will not be sold separately.
Optional Parts
$899 RENEGADE 944 TO LS-1 COMPLETE COOLING SYSTEM: Including high efficiency custom radiator, HP puller fan and mounts, thermostatic control switch, 30 amp relay, and pre-wired harness, assembled and ready for installation in the stock 944 radiator location.
$849 RENEGADE CUSTOM BUILT LS-1 HIGH FLOW HEADERS: With 1 ¾-inch primaries and 3-inch collectors. ( picture )
$200 CERAMIC HEADER COATING: High temperature polished coating inside and out.
$145 CUSTOM REMOTE FILTER OIL LINES: One pair with all needed fittings.
$25 COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENDING UNIT: With correct VDO output. Please specify your gauge value when ordering.
$45 OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT: With correct VDO output. Please specify your gauge value when ordering.
$35 CUSTOM OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT ADAPTER
$355 KEVLAR HIGH PERFORMANCE CLUTCH DISC UPGRADE: $100 added to upgrade stock disc included with basic conversion kit.
$440 STOCK 12" GENUINE GM FLYWHEEL AND PRESSURE PLATE
$335 HIGH PERFORMANCE STAGE-TWO YELLOW PRESSURE PLATE
$245 LS-1 CUSTOM FUEL REGULATOR/FILTER/RETURN COMPLETE KIT: With correct fittings for your Porsche stock fuel lines.
$140 / pr. ENERGY SUSPENSION MOTOR MOUNT UPGRADE: Plus mount modification. $90 added to upgrade stock mounts included with basic conversion kit.
$145 SWIVEL 180-DEGREE THERMOSTAT AND HOUSING: For added frame rail clearance over stock LS-1 thermostat.
$130 / pr. CUSTOM BUILT POWER STEERING LINES: Cores required.
$240 STOCK GENUINE GM LS-1 CAMARO STARTER: New
From $390 LS-1 COMPUTER PROGRAMMING: Available with complete emissions all the way to full race.
From $450 LS-1 TO 944 COMPLETE CUSTOM MODIFIED FUEL INJECTION HARNESS: With emissions.
From $425 LS-1 TO 944 COMPLETE CUSTOM FUEL INJECTION HARNESS: Without emissions.
$285 LS-1/LT-1 CUSTOM CV/TRANSAXLE MOUNTED SPEED SENSOR KIT: With reluctor ring and GM plug.
$140 LS-1 COMPUTER: Programming required, core charge $250
$29 LS-1/LT-1 RIGHT ANGLE THROTTLE BODY INTAKE BOOT: 4 inch to 3.5 inch.
$29 LS-1/LT-1 RIGHT ANGLE INTAKE BOOT: 3.5 inch to 3.5 inch.
$20 ft. LS-1/LT-1 ALUMINUM 3.5" INTAKE TUBING
$85 LS-1 TO 944 CUSTOM THROTTLE CABLE
$29 HEATER CONTROL H VALVE: The LS-1 heater return loop must remain intact for the required bypass system designed into the motor. If you plan to run a heater, this type of H valve is required.
$125 LS-1/LT-1 OPTIMA BILLET BATTERY TRAY: For cell relocation.
$2,950 944 "BIG RED" BRAKE UPGRADE KIT: Complete with 993 twin turbo four piston calipers and new pads, caliper adapters, 993 turbo rotors, custom brake lines, used late model turbo struts and hubs, 928 proportioning valve, and hardware.
$180 LS-1 POWER STEERING DELETE KIT: For manual rack application.
Tech Article
05-11-2010, 11:54 PM
#34
Teching In
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Wow. Talk about a blast from the past... I forgot I even made this thread years ago.
I am currently in the planning stages of an LS1 swap into an '86 951. I am most definitely looking forward to the swap, and the challenges it will present. Current plan is to sell off the stock long block, exhaust, intake, turbo, etc. Sell as much as I can to recoup some of the costs to fund the conversion. I don't really know why I mentioned swapping in a 'Vette transaxle. I do have the 951 now, so the transaxle is begging for more HP.
Even though the response is 2 years old, I am up for the task. Even though the original post may have sounded like I was a novice, I've stripped and rebuilt motorcycles by memory alone and am currently building a Low Center of Gravity (LCoG) Jeep Wrangler by stuffing 35 or 37" tires onto a mere 2.5" of lift.
I am currently in the planning stages of an LS1 swap into an '86 951. I am most definitely looking forward to the swap, and the challenges it will present. Current plan is to sell off the stock long block, exhaust, intake, turbo, etc. Sell as much as I can to recoup some of the costs to fund the conversion. I don't really know why I mentioned swapping in a 'Vette transaxle. I do have the 951 now, so the transaxle is begging for more HP.
Even though the response is 2 years old, I am up for the task. Even though the original post may have sounded like I was a novice, I've stripped and rebuilt motorcycles by memory alone and am currently building a Low Center of Gravity (LCoG) Jeep Wrangler by stuffing 35 or 37" tires onto a mere 2.5" of lift.
Last edited by ultimate157; 05-12-2010 at 12:04 AM.
05-13-2010, 02:46 AM
#35
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Do it!
I just today connected the starter wire to my LS1/928 swap and will be attempting to start it either tomorrow or the next day, it's been a fun father/son project; hope it works. There are a lot of differences between the 944 and the 928, but if I can be of any assistance, let me know.
I just today connected the starter wire to my LS1/928 swap and will be attempting to start it either tomorrow or the next day, it's been a fun father/son project; hope it works. There are a lot of differences between the 944 and the 928, but if I can be of any assistance, let me know.
05-28-2010, 01:25 PM
#37
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Nice to see the 944 hybrids getting some love here. I have a 1986 944 LS1/6 here in NH. It has been on the road in one form or another since July of last year. It really has been a joy to build and even better to drive. As much as some of the 'porsche engineering' features **** me off sometimes, I cannot think of a better car to convert, in my very humble opinion.
I'm still at dead nuts 50/50 weight distribution with a battery relocation, am 2800lb with fluids and a half tank of gas, and the car performs excellent.
As for the swap itself. It isn't as hard as one makes it out to be. I did it with the help of two good friends in my driveway, no garage, and a borrowed MIG welder. there is a company called 994 hybrids down in TX that will sell you motor mounts and a C5 bellhousing convertor. Those are really the only two major driveline components that are completely unique. Use a stock 951 trans axle, a '70s dodge clutch disc, and the wiring is pretty painless (porsche was pretty smart when they built the car- one set of wiring looms controls all engine functions, while a completely separate circuit controls auxilliary controls)...
I say go for it. It's certainly a learning process, and wrenching on any vehicle >20 years old sucks sometimes, but the end result has been more than worth it.
I'm still at dead nuts 50/50 weight distribution with a battery relocation, am 2800lb with fluids and a half tank of gas, and the car performs excellent.
As for the swap itself. It isn't as hard as one makes it out to be. I did it with the help of two good friends in my driveway, no garage, and a borrowed MIG welder. there is a company called 994 hybrids down in TX that will sell you motor mounts and a C5 bellhousing convertor. Those are really the only two major driveline components that are completely unique. Use a stock 951 trans axle, a '70s dodge clutch disc, and the wiring is pretty painless (porsche was pretty smart when they built the car- one set of wiring looms controls all engine functions, while a completely separate circuit controls auxilliary controls)...
I say go for it. It's certainly a learning process, and wrenching on any vehicle >20 years old sucks sometimes, but the end result has been more than worth it.
07-15-2010, 12:27 PM
#38
I'm in the process of building an LSX powered 944. Many on this site know that I have previously built the "Munster" (original completion date 2003) & have a lot of from scratch, in my garage, car building experience. Am seriously considering using the C5 transaxle. Am not convinced that a 951 can hold up to 550 crank HP & the associated torque 420 + Ft-#. Don't have a problem believing that a 951 is good for stock LSX HP & TQ, but, just can't see it doing any better. Further, the Porsche transaxles are WAY over priced.
Am aware of the floor hacking & torque tube mod's required when using the Vette transaxle. I really don't see an issue. When building from nothing, ya just figure stuff out 'till it works.
Am aware of the floor hacking & torque tube mod's required when using the Vette transaxle. I really don't see an issue. When building from nothing, ya just figure stuff out 'till it works.
