LS1 into a 944 discussion.
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Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
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LS1 into a 944 discussion. My favorite car of all time is the 1987 Porsche 944. (My father bought ours in 1987) I've always loved the body style, and the unbelievable handling. The only thing I think it lacks is in the power department. Cue the LS1.
I would really love to start a 944 LS1 project with a corvette rear end using a purchased chassis with either a high millage engine, or even better, no engine at all. I have a few concerns.
1. Physically mounting the engine, components and rear end. I have no experience in the fabrication of custom parts. I would probably look to an expert for this, especially since it is an aluminum chassis. I would do all work to the components as well as the install, just no fabrication.
1a. I have seen LS1's swapped into the 944 chassis, can it be strengthened enough to withstand 400hp over time? How about the weight?
2. Adapting the LS1 to the Porsche electronics. Obviously the ECM would come from the LS1, but how would I go about connecting all the gauges and such ? Are there any adapter / kits available?
3. Adapting a Corvette transaxle to the porsche gauges / shifter. A custom driveshaft could easily be made if needed.
4. My biggest concern of all is being able to retain (or improve) the handling of the car. I know the LS1 is a beast compared to the little slant 4 in the weight department. Will that weight difference throw off the balance of the car?
Thanks for any and all input,
Matt
I would really love to start a 944 LS1 project with a corvette rear end using a purchased chassis with either a high millage engine, or even better, no engine at all. I have a few concerns.
1. Physically mounting the engine, components and rear end. I have no experience in the fabrication of custom parts. I would probably look to an expert for this, especially since it is an aluminum chassis. I would do all work to the components as well as the install, just no fabrication.
1a. I have seen LS1's swapped into the 944 chassis, can it be strengthened enough to withstand 400hp over time? How about the weight?
2. Adapting the LS1 to the Porsche electronics. Obviously the ECM would come from the LS1, but how would I go about connecting all the gauges and such ? Are there any adapter / kits available?
3. Adapting a Corvette transaxle to the porsche gauges / shifter. A custom driveshaft could easily be made if needed.
4. My biggest concern of all is being able to retain (or improve) the handling of the car. I know the LS1 is a beast compared to the little slant 4 in the weight department. Will that weight difference throw off the balance of the car?
Thanks for any and all input,
Matt
I think one of your bigger hurdles will be the corvette transaxle in the fact that it is a torque tube configuration. There are ways to shorten the torque tube but even if you accomplish that packaging will be an issue with the 944's suspension. I dunno what the 944 swap guys are doing but I bet alot of them are using 996 transaxles or something similar.
there is a company that makes SBC conversions for 924/944s, but idk if they ever made on specifically for the LS1. think the ls1 weight was too light and upset the handling
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 186
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From: Hong Kong
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/indexx.html
They mate the LS1 to the existing torque tube/transaxle assembly. Similar to a C5/C6 Vette.
They mate the LS1 to the existing torque tube/transaxle assembly. Similar to a C5/C6 Vette.
The 944 guys are using 951 (944 turbo) transaxles to hold the power and it works fine. Renegade and a few other companies make adapters to do the swap. The car is amazingly balanced. If you can find a turbo model its even better because it has bigger brakes etc. and the turbo setup weighs more so you wont really need to change out very much to keep the car balanced and reliable.
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This may not be the ideal 1st swap Ultimate157,
No offense -- but you don't exactly sound like a "grease under your nails, scraped knuckles, been there -- done that " type of car guy.
But, heck everyone's got to start somewhere.
You should be cautioned that no matter what the conversion kit manufacturer(s) claims -- most of the time all their parts don't fit 100% perfectly, the instructions may be vague (or omit some things) and you will have to fabricate something from "scratch".
That is, some modification and automotive experience/ingenuity will be required to get the car and "kit" running. Even if you are able to spend "cubic money".
Do you have access to a garage and tools?
Not trying to talk you out of anything -- just pointing out how things work in the real world of engine swaps.
No offense -- but you don't exactly sound like a "grease under your nails, scraped knuckles, been there -- done that " type of car guy.
But, heck everyone's got to start somewhere.
You should be cautioned that no matter what the conversion kit manufacturer(s) claims -- most of the time all their parts don't fit 100% perfectly, the instructions may be vague (or omit some things) and you will have to fabricate something from "scratch".
That is, some modification and automotive experience/ingenuity will be required to get the car and "kit" running. Even if you are able to spend "cubic money".
Do you have access to a garage and tools?
Not trying to talk you out of anything -- just pointing out how things work in the real world of engine swaps.
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Ultimate157,
No offense -- but you don't exactly sound like a "grease under your nails, scraped knuckles, been there -- done that " type of car guy.
That is, some modification and automotive experience/ingenuity will be required to get the car and "kit" running. Even if you are able to spend "cubic money
Do you have access to a garage and tools?
Not trying to talk you out of anything -- just pointing out how things work in the real world of engine swaps.
No offense -- but you don't exactly sound like a "grease under your nails, scraped knuckles, been there -- done that " type of car guy.
That is, some modification and automotive experience/ingenuity will be required to get the car and "kit" running. Even if you are able to spend "cubic money
Do you have access to a garage and tools?
Not trying to talk you out of anything -- just pointing out how things work in the real world of engine swaps.
Ultimate157,
No offense -- but you don't exactly sound like a "grease under your nails, scraped knuckles, been there -- done that " type of car guy.
But, heck everyone's got to start somewhere.
You should be cautioned that no matter what the conversion kit manufacturer(s) claims -- most of the time all their parts don't fit 100% perfectly, the instructions may be vague (or omit some things) and you will have to fabricate something from "scratch".
That is, some modification and automotive experience/ingenuity will be required to get the car and "kit" running. Even if you are able to spend "cubic money".
Do you have access to a garage and tools?
Not trying to talk you out of anything -- just pointing out how things work in the real world of engine swaps.
No offense -- but you don't exactly sound like a "grease under your nails, scraped knuckles, been there -- done that " type of car guy.
But, heck everyone's got to start somewhere.
You should be cautioned that no matter what the conversion kit manufacturer(s) claims -- most of the time all their parts don't fit 100% perfectly, the instructions may be vague (or omit some things) and you will have to fabricate something from "scratch".
That is, some modification and automotive experience/ingenuity will be required to get the car and "kit" running. Even if you are able to spend "cubic money".
Do you have access to a garage and tools?
Not trying to talk you out of anything -- just pointing out how things work in the real world of engine swaps.
Although its not exactly the same thing I have a 911 with a smallblock in it .It would amaze you how nice a packedge this makes .The car handles as well as stock,not much weight change with aluminum heads and intake.My motor is about 430hp and you almost have to make it spin,it just plants you in the seat till you let up.If I were starting over today I would use an ls1 because it could only be better.Renegade is the one to deal with on a porsche swap,their kits are well engineered and work great.
yea, renegadehybrids is a good source. Also check out a site called Porschehybrids.com. It's all about LSx swaps into various Porsche's. I will be doing an Ls1 or L92 swap on my 83 944 once I finish the L92 swap on the Rx7.
I googled "944 ls1" and got some excellent hits. Why do you want the corvette transaxle? Seems like most guys retain the 944 rear.
http://www.tonygarcia.org/944V8/
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2571731
this place sells a kit
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/#
Last edited by Pop N Wood; Aug 25, 2008 at 08:45 AM.
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 841
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From: Baltimore, MD.
Ultimate157,
No offense -- but you don't exactly sound like a "grease under your nails, scraped knuckles, been there -- done that " type of car guy.
But, heck everyone's got to start somewhere.
You should be cautioned that no matter what the conversion kit manufacturer(s) claims -- most of the time all their parts don't fit 100% perfectly, the instructions may be vague (or omit some things) and you will have to fabricate something from "scratch".
That is, some modification and automotive experience/ingenuity will be required to get the car and "kit" running. Even if you are able to spend "cubic money".
Do you have access to a garage and tools?
Not trying to talk you out of anything -- just pointing out how things work in the real world of engine swaps.
No offense -- but you don't exactly sound like a "grease under your nails, scraped knuckles, been there -- done that " type of car guy.
But, heck everyone's got to start somewhere.
You should be cautioned that no matter what the conversion kit manufacturer(s) claims -- most of the time all their parts don't fit 100% perfectly, the instructions may be vague (or omit some things) and you will have to fabricate something from "scratch".
That is, some modification and automotive experience/ingenuity will be required to get the car and "kit" running. Even if you are able to spend "cubic money".
Do you have access to a garage and tools?
Not trying to talk you out of anything -- just pointing out how things work in the real world of engine swaps.
I think his questions and points are worth stating, and really quite necessary. Having done a LSx swap for a 4wd S10 (where there are some parts but not all of them) and still doing some sorting out, that you need to be sure that you're up for it before diving in. And just thinking that "I'll farm it out to an expert" is great until you realize that the only experts might be 2000+ miles away and the cost, effort, and time required to transport the vehicle is not insignificant. Alot of people seem to think that there's an LSx swap expert in their hometown, and in some cases there are. But in many cases, you're into uncharted territory, and you best know that BEFORE you rip the car apart and spend a bunch of money.
Now, back to our regular thread:
I Had a co-worker a couple years back with a 944 with a 406 SBC swapped into it. What a wild ride. He swapped to the turbo t-axle because of breakage. But what a wicked ride it was. Reason he put a SBC in (besides the fact that the LSx wasn't available when he built it) is that he broke the Porsche motor and it was cheaper to swap than to fix it.
Be advised, this kind of swap won't be cheap. I'd budget at least $8k to $10k for just the engine swap. That's not including expert help.
'JustDreamin'
I think his questions and points are worth stating, and really quite necessary. Having done a LSx swap for a 4wd S10 (where there are some parts but not all of them) and still doing some sorting out, that you need to be sure that you're up for it before diving in. And just thinking that "I'll farm it out to an expert" is great until you realize that the only experts might be 2000+ miles away and the cost, effort, and time required to transport the vehicle is not insignificant. Alot of people seem to think that there's an LSx swap expert in their hometown, and in some cases there are. But in many cases, you're into uncharted territory, and you best know that BEFORE you rip the car apart and spend a bunch of money.
Now, back to our regular thread:
I Had a co-worker a couple years back with a 944 with a 406 SBC swapped into it. What a wild ride. He swapped to the turbo t-axle because of breakage. But what a wicked ride it was. Reason he put a SBC in (besides the fact that the LSx wasn't available when he built it) is that he broke the Porsche motor and it was cheaper to swap than to fix it.
Be advised, this kind of swap won't be cheap. I'd budget at least $8k to $10k for just the engine swap. That's not including expert help.
'JustDreamin'
Now, back to our regular thread:
I Had a co-worker a couple years back with a 944 with a 406 SBC swapped into it. What a wild ride. He swapped to the turbo t-axle because of breakage. But what a wicked ride it was. Reason he put a SBC in (besides the fact that the LSx wasn't available when he built it) is that he broke the Porsche motor and it was cheaper to swap than to fix it.
Be advised, this kind of swap won't be cheap. I'd budget at least $8k to $10k for just the engine swap. That's not including expert help.
'JustDreamin'
Anyway back on track I think a MUCH Better starting point for an LSX swap is a front engine car with a transmission in the normal spot- you can get familiar on something that doesn't require an assload of special parts and fabrication and get your feet wet before jumping into something with high dollar conversion parts involved.
Very true Andy. The 944 transaxles are just too weak. I have read up a bit about the 968 trannys. they aren't as strong as the 951, and the for the cost of a 968 trans, one could buy an LSD 951 trans...