New product: Painless Perfect ECU
11-14-2007, 10:35 PM
#21
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ya, i dunno. I can get a standalone harness from Current performance made exactly how i want for $700 and run the stock PCM i already have in my garage. It may be good for someone with nothing to start out, but i cant justify it. I too will stick with my carb for a little while longer.
You could buy a used factory underhood+powertrain harness for $100-$200.
Spend a few hours cutting and soldering, you would end up with the same thing.
BUT...
This ecm has one large advantage over factory PCM's.....real-time tuning out of the box without an emulator.
11-15-2007, 12:24 AM
#24
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Alright - so, say I'm stuffing an LS1 into the back of a Fiero. I know I need to work on the harnesses. But - would a factory ECU and HP-tuners be a cheaper alternative (cash wise, not time-wise) and still offer RTT options for me? Considering, I'm planning on tearing the car down pretty much to the chassis and building it back up bit by bit, using some stock, and some aftermarket parts. (Not sure on the ratio of OEM to aftermarket yet though.)
11-15-2007, 05:56 AM
#26
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How much has GM invested in making the factory computer work on these vehicles? and how much has anyone else invested on making these MEFI units work in a daily driven all around vehicle?
I'll go with the OEM stuff anytime, plus, should anything ever go wrong, they are readily available and inexpensive. I see absolutely no advantage to this unit package, especially for the money. There are lots of better, cheaper, and longer tested alternatives.
I'll go with the OEM stuff anytime, plus, should anything ever go wrong, they are readily available and inexpensive. I see absolutely no advantage to this unit package, especially for the money. There are lots of better, cheaper, and longer tested alternatives.
11-15-2007, 09:54 AM
#27
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If this is truely the MEFI controller (like Mercruiser uses) then you can assume that it has alot of $$$ (GM and Mercruiser) invested in it making it bulletproof (and waterproof too).
Marine applications are significantly more demanding than automotive. Stuff in boats typically sees higher vibration (both from impact loads from the boat pounding the water and from the engine running at high rpm / throttle %), don't get much cooling airflow (its in a box), have to put up with the corrosive effects of saltwater, and are expected to work perfectly for hours on end with months of off time in between. Any controller that's hardened enough to put up with a marine environment can live under my hood anyday.
But the price Painless wants certainly isn't Painless.
'JustDreamin'
Marine applications are significantly more demanding than automotive. Stuff in boats typically sees higher vibration (both from impact loads from the boat pounding the water and from the engine running at high rpm / throttle %), don't get much cooling airflow (its in a box), have to put up with the corrosive effects of saltwater, and are expected to work perfectly for hours on end with months of off time in between. Any controller that's hardened enough to put up with a marine environment can live under my hood anyday.
But the price Painless wants certainly isn't Painless.
'JustDreamin'
11-15-2007, 10:33 AM
#28
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When I talked to the painless guys at the indy product show last winter I was informed that you will need to purchase their software to tune or modify the ecu's programing as it does not work with any of the oem software tools.
11-15-2007, 10:36 AM
#29
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This is indeed a MEFI unit, made by Delphi -- so the build quality, durability, etc. would be on par with a factory PCM. I think the biggest selling points are the size, ease of install, and ease of tuning. I'll post up some screen shots of the tuning software in a bit.
11-15-2007, 11:11 AM
#30
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I am talking about driveability and overall performance in an automobile. I understand it is a Delphi unit and there has been lots of time involved in making an engine run in a boat. But I am talking about all around adjusting for every elevation, humidity, temperature, daily, closed loop LSx engine driving.
It's like saying that a computer made for an LS1 is going to be better at running a Dodge Hemi or something else just because it works well on what it was originally designed for.
What advantages are there to this kind of system over and above a factory computer/harness?
Tuning? You can buy tuning software for a factory unit that probably has even more flexibility than their software.
New harness? You can get those too, and they can be made custom for any application, not one size fits all. Also, they usually come with COVERED WIRES!!! not bare wire running all over the place. If you can argue about the money spent on the computer by GM, can't some argument be made that they probably have a good reason for covering all the wiring in the engine compartment as well other than just asthetics?
Price? Nope, you can go totally budget and use the old harness from the engine and do it yourself, or even if you get a new harness and basic program, it's still cheaper than this system.
Trouble shooting? I can take my LS1 vehicle to any local repair shop that is worth their salt, or a GM dealership and get help with diagnoses and repairs. What happens when you are stranded in some far away place and this system has a problem? Call an 800 # and talk to someone with a flipchart?
Size? The New LS2 computers are pretty compact, and the E40 will run an older 24 tooth LS1 engine.
So someone tell me again, what exactly is the advantage here?
It's like saying that a computer made for an LS1 is going to be better at running a Dodge Hemi or something else just because it works well on what it was originally designed for.
What advantages are there to this kind of system over and above a factory computer/harness?
Tuning? You can buy tuning software for a factory unit that probably has even more flexibility than their software.
New harness? You can get those too, and they can be made custom for any application, not one size fits all. Also, they usually come with COVERED WIRES!!! not bare wire running all over the place. If you can argue about the money spent on the computer by GM, can't some argument be made that they probably have a good reason for covering all the wiring in the engine compartment as well other than just asthetics?
Price? Nope, you can go totally budget and use the old harness from the engine and do it yourself, or even if you get a new harness and basic program, it's still cheaper than this system.
Trouble shooting? I can take my LS1 vehicle to any local repair shop that is worth their salt, or a GM dealership and get help with diagnoses and repairs. What happens when you are stranded in some far away place and this system has a problem? Call an 800 # and talk to someone with a flipchart?
Size? The New LS2 computers are pretty compact, and the E40 will run an older 24 tooth LS1 engine.
So someone tell me again, what exactly is the advantage here?
Last edited by Jones'n; 11-15-2007 at 11:18 AM.
11-15-2007, 01:32 PM
#32
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The toughest application processing-wise is production street vehicles, mostly for emissions and NVH.
I find it pretty ironic that people keep touting the ease of tuning for the Painless speed-density, especially for swaps. The stock mass-air based PCM works perfectly for a stock engine without *ANY* tuning (flipping off some DTCs doesn't count as "tuning"), and runs quite well with a modified engine too with very little tuning.
Maybe the Painless box is great for people looking to elminate their MAF and run speed-density... most swap people are running a MAF though.
11-15-2007, 01:36 PM
#33
Looks like the kit without the caTool software runs about $1200.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
I'd also be real curious about the part throttle and tuning capabilities of the MEFI unit. My understanding was that since it was originally designed for Marine applications it doesn't contain the number of idle and part throttle capabilities of the GM PCM so tuning with a big cam may present issues. Let's wait and see!
11-15-2007, 04:37 PM
#34
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Hmmm Mercruiser is right down the street from my house, I am gonna see what else I can find out about the MEFI controller.
Edit: Just talked to a friend who works for mercruiser. Doing my best to describe what the computer looks like in words he said they use something different that requires 3 plugs into the computer for their fuel injected applications. He doesn't work for their racing program however so maybe they only use this computer for those engines?
Edit: Just talked to a friend who works for mercruiser. Doing my best to describe what the computer looks like in words he said they use something different that requires 3 plugs into the computer for their fuel injected applications. He doesn't work for their racing program however so maybe they only use this computer for those engines?
Last edited by pist0lpete; 11-15-2007 at 04:54 PM.
11-15-2007, 09:32 PM
#35
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Well so far all I've done is pop it on the car, drop in their included cam tune, hit the key, and it fired right up and idled. I was quite amazed, seeing as how I'm running a 238/240 112 LSA cam. Throttle response and part throttle was very crisp. I haven't spent any time doing much beyond that yet, but I was pretty impressed.
11-16-2007, 04:05 AM
#37
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How about accesories with the MEFI?
Like controlling an Autotrans and A/C. On boats do they run the speedo from the propshaft?
There must be several advantages with running a car ECM like the ones that we can easily get from our donor cars. With harnesses supplied from vendors such as Speartech the amount of problems would be minimal.
I can't really see any benefits with this Painless kit at all.
To answer Rockytopper,Yes you're on the right path as you are.
Jan
Like controlling an Autotrans and A/C. On boats do they run the speedo from the propshaft?
There must be several advantages with running a car ECM like the ones that we can easily get from our donor cars. With harnesses supplied from vendors such as Speartech the amount of problems would be minimal.
I can't really see any benefits with this Painless kit at all.
To answer Rockytopper,Yes you're on the right path as you are.
Jan