V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Quick question for the third-gen guys out there - is Hawk's the only place that you can buy the StainlessWorks headers?? There aren't any other headers available for this swap yet, are there?? (I kinda got away from everything for a year or so when I didn't have any cash to throw at the project, so I'm not sure of the latest info on the subject...) Thanks guys.

skiwrench

You can buy them from Spohn's website:

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...s-Y-Pipes.html

five7kid

Hedman offers 3rd gen LS swap headers now as well.

http://www.hedmanhusler.com/1982-92-...S-Swap-Headers

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

EXCELLENT!!! A quick price check on both Jegs & Summit shows that (even with 2" primaries & ceramic-coated!!) they're considerably less expensive than what Spohn & Hawk's are asking for the SSW headers! (Yes, I know that the SSW headers are stainless, & the Hedmans might not be, but my SLP headers STILL started to rust, DESPITE the fact that they were ceramic-coated stainless steel, so that doesn't mean a hell of a lot to me any more...)

Thanks for the tip!!!

85GPLEf41

iTrader: (4)

Damn V8Rumble went through your whole build and i must admit i wished i would have picked up a GTA Firebird a while back... too bad i'm stuck on GP'S Where in Denver do you reside in? and WHAT emissions standards do you have to work through??

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Welp, I ordered the headers & a Camaro5 belt tensioner (sure hope like hell that fits!) last night, was told that they'll probably take a week & a half to two weeks to get here. Pretty stoked about getting the headers...

That sounds like a good topic for discussion when we try out that alternator...

85GPLEf41

iTrader: (4)

Sounds Good! Look forward to checking out your ride and picking your brains..

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

OK, I'm working on the electrical lately, & even though I've done some searching, & looked at a bunch of threads on here, I guess it's time for a few questions...

Don't remember if I've mentioned it here yet, but I'm relocating the battery into the rear hatch area. I have an NHRA-approved sealed plastic box that it's going into, and 0/1-gauge marine welding cable (LOTS of rather-fine-gauge, individually-solder-coated copper threads) going from the battery to the starter, but after reading all of these other threads, I'm thinking that I'll want an equivalent negative battery cable going from the battery in the rear hatch area to the engine block. (I'd initially thought that I'd just run a heavy-gauge cable from the - battery terminal to the rear part of the (solid steel bar) SFC, & then another from the front part of the SFC to the block, but after reading some more, it seems like that might not be the smart way to do it...) I already have two fairly heavy-duty (1" wide?? maybe a bit more??) ground straps going from each cylinder head to the frame rails, but I don't yet have any ground straps connected to either the engine block or the subframe connectors... Are those a necessity, or just a "nice to have"??

The alternator charge wire - I have a 4-gauge (?) (probably overkill) cable that is long enough to run from the alternator to the battery. It's always seemed to me like there should be some kind of device in-line, something to regulate the current. Is the charge cable just something that runs (essentially) parallel to the battery cable, with the charge being regulated by the difference in potential?? (In other words, am I trying to over-think this??)

Fuse box - What gauge wire/cable should I run to that? I'm thinking that the 4-gauge cable should be just about right... I also have 3 or 4 "buss bars" that I've grabbed from GM trucks in the junkyard for convenient "hot" or ground attachment points, any suggestions for those??

Thanks in advance guys, I'm sure they're some fairly basic questions, I just wasn't able to find the answers when I was looking yesterday...

goodwrenchbutch

if you are running the positive battery cable inside of the car you can use something like this

http://www.delcity.net/store/Stud-Ty...ck/p_71704.a_1

it makes it alot easier than trying to bend the cable when you exit the firewall. you can also attach your alternator charge wire to it or the starter. you shouldnt have any problems attaching your ground cable to the body near the battery and then hooking one up in front to the engine. that is what GM is doing on most of the new cars that have a trunk mounted battery.

i am doing a 6.0 swap in a car identical to yours and just got it fired up last week i hope to have some pics up soon

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Hey, thanks for the reply goodwrenchbutch! Initially I figured that as long as I got a good solid/clean contact on each end of the subframe connector then it would work just fine (esp. since it's a solid steel bar!) but then posts like this one really make me start to think that I'd be best off just to run the negative cable straight to the block...

I'd really like to get some other thoughts on this... (As well as answers to the other questions I have...)

Cool, I'll be keeping an eye out for 'em

van454

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear things are on the move again. Got any new pics for us?

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Well, thanks van454, I appreciate it. Yeah, I do have a couple more pictures that I can put up, with any luck I'll be able to do that just a bit later tonight.

hicksport

iTrader: (1)

I know Im late in posting in on your thread but Ive done the LY6 swap in my 92 camaro using the L99 intake on a Truck motor using one home built bracket and all the truck acc. Hope it helps. Look on Thirdgen for my thread. It made 431 to the wheels. Has been a blast to drive.
Have fun and dont stop till its done!!!

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Hey Hicksport, that's awesome. I'll definitely have to check that out, maybe this evening.

Yeah, I know - I'm "back from the dead" again. I got really freakin' tired/fed up with EVERY LITTLE THING with this project fighting me, stepped away from it for a bit, & just never really regained my enthusiasm for it (actually, there have been more than a couple times that I've wanted to drop it onto the car dollies I have, kick it out into the middle of the street, & set it on fire...) - until this week, when one of my local F-body buds posted a link to the set of Hawk's swap headers that John at Speartech had offered up for sale - and for only $500, buddy, you better believe I jumped on THAT like a Rottweiler on a ribeye steak!! I'm going to be test-fitting them today, happily I already have the Percy's 'Seal for Good' gaskets & a set of locking header bolts, so I could just bolt 'em on for good if I choose to - we'll see.

As an added bit of good news, my wife's really wanting me to be able to get this done, so she's told me that she's OK with spending some money on it. SOOO, at this moment, I'm thinking that I'm probably going to be selling some of the extraneous stuff that I've been holding on to, & buying a pre-made harness, etc.

In the mean-time, here's a picture of the headers (I originally wanted to send 'em to Jet-Hot for their 'Polished' finish coating, but I think for now I'm going to focus all of the expenditures on getting the car running/going again):


OK, I'm heading out to the garage now, to try to get these bad boys into place...

cam

iTrader: (9)

Dont get dismayed man. Head down, dig deep, and grind it out, end game is abiatch with these kind of builds BUT.... at least now you have the support of others who've done the REALLY painful stuff like sorting out the harness and getting the ECM to play nice with a six speed.... Seriously that was two months of screwing around stuck at 4000 RPM max. Ufffffff

But not to worry, when time comes these issues is sorted. not to say there wont be an oddity or two getting it all sorted there always is so come on dude,

Wifes on board, the boards are on board, less talk more work!!! Thats all she needs now

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Today's irritation/annoyance - the SFI-approved bellhousing that I've been so glad to have has a section that protrudes right into the same space that the header collector needs to occupy...


From what I can see, I have two options - The first option is to drop the transmission, pull the bellhousing & block protector plate, remove the offending portions of metal, have those holes in the bellhousing filled with equally-solid/thick pieces of metal, and then put the whole assembly back together. And hope that none of the tech inspections that I'd go through (the local dragstrip, local road-course, Bonneville salt, various open-road events) fail me because of that...

The second option is to drop the transmission, pull the bellhousing, block protector plate, clutch master cylinder, pedals, etc., sell all of those pieces - and switch it back to an automatic. To be honest, I'm really liking option two a lot better, and here's why.

First, GM has never offered a VVT engine with a manual transmission. I've contacted everyone I could think of to find out why, from people at GM itself to magazine writers & editors, but have never been able to find out why. That just BUGS me. I know that people have been able to make it work... But I've always had a nagging feeling that there's probably a VERY GOOD REASON why GM's never offered this combo.

Next, it makes the tuning more of a PITA than it needs to be. If I had an automatic behind the engine, I could find a tune ANYWHERE, and I could rely upon an already-LARGE base of existing users to get help from. Hell, I could even start with a stock truck tune if need be!

Finally - and this is just me - my left hip has started "bitching" at me a bit, apparently I get to pay for some of the Taekwondo high kicks that I did a number of years ago. (Not to mention the fact that any more, it seems like I only drive a manual tranny about every 10 years or so, & I'd constantly be forgetting to use my left leg...)

EDIT: When I originally wrote this out, I forgot to mention that I'm also having a bit of hassle with aligning the clutch master cylinder with the pedals I have. Swapping in an auto would allow me to bypass that hassle completely.

So... I don't know at this point. I've always felt that "real performance cars" always have three pedals - but honestly, I think that engineering & technology have eliminated the gap that used to exist. And with six-speed automatics & paddle shifters, you could probably make a solid argument that I might even gain a tiny bit!

I'd like to hear what you guys think. I don't even know what a 550-hp-capable six-speed automatic would cost, so I don't know if that's even an option - but I'd guess that I could sell my existing T56 stuff and get a built 4L60E for roughly the same amount...

Thoughts, suggestions??

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

What SFI bellhousing is that? McLeod? Is it for an LT1 or universal? My Quicktime SFI was a dream install.

VVT and AFM were only offered in Automagics because the TQ converter could be used to soften any transitions in the motor which may otherwise result in a Warranty visit to the dealer for the General Population.

The E38 ECM has been worked out for your combo and there should be no reason it won't work, mine's working great.

Nothing wrong and no shame with going to an automagic, 90% of the swaps (especially with GenIV swaps) because of the difficulty with the BCM delete.

I would probably look for something better than the 700r4/4l60e though, at least a 4l65e at a minimum, though they can be built better if your wallet allows.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

First off, here's another picture of the interference from the bellhousing, this time from below the car:


I know that I could sell the SFI-approved bellhousing & just use a normal LS-type F-body bellhousing, but honestly, if I did that, I feel like I might as well just switch to an automatic. (Don't ask me why I feel that way, I probably can't even explain it to myself...)

Also - here's a shot of the passenger-side header from below the car.


You can see that I'm going to have to trim part of the transmission crossmember, which is OK, because I was expecting to have to do that. You can also see the beginning of the Mufflex cat-back that I need to tie into. I already have a real short Y-pipe to tie the two sides together, I'm thinking that -once I get past the bellhousing interference issue- finishing up the exhaust shouldn't be too bad at all. {crossing my fingers}

And finally, to end on a GOOD note... Here's proof that at least the passenger-side header fits just fine!!


(I haven't done the "final" install of that piece yet, haven't installed the gasket, etc. since this was basically just a 'test fit' to see whether there were any issues on that side. Once I get past the bellhousing issue, get the wiring harness & the starter installed, I'll install the headers permanently.)

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Hey V8rumble, I was psyched to read you were back at work on this!

I must admit it would bum me out if you did the swap w an auto...

I realize most swaps use and auto, and it is easier. But I completely disagree with the auto idea. Especially if you intend to hit the road course. Autos make sense for drag racing and daily driving. You are fooling yourself if you think it is more fun or better on a road course. No matter how well tune, the ECM cannot read your mind and prepare for the next shift. And paddle shifters on american cars are not like the PDKs in Porsches or other high $ exotics.

As far as the VVT goes, plenty of aftermarket harness makers offer harnesses to keep the VVT and offer correct tuning for the T-56.

I can see where AFM may require an auto (which we both know you do not have), but the VVT will not have the same draw backs.

Food for thought: the new LT1 in the C7 Vette offers VVT w a manual trans. It is not something that cannot be overcome. I get your point and all. I was especially disappointed to see the New Camaro has VVT w auto and not VVT w the manual.

I really intended to keep VVT in my L92 w a manual. Sadly the extra 1/2 of room was not available in my new project, so a traditional cam went in.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for the reply Mike, I'm guessing you entered it while I was typing my most-recent post out, because I didn't see it when I started. Anyway, regarding the bellhousing, it is a McLeod, the part number is 8710-10. I believe that it's an LS-specific unit, but I'd have to confirm that.

And thanks especially for the tip about the VVT + TQ converter, etc. I figured that it had to be something like that, something that was related to the potential for multiple service calls... Do you happen to have a source for that?? (Just asking because I could NOT get any kind of answer, & I'm curious where that came from...)

Good to know re: the E38 ECM, that makes me feel a bit better. Do you know if anyone's running a larger-than-stock camshaft also??

Don't know yet what I'm going to do re: T56 vs. auto, guess I'll do some pricing on Monday, & see what that suggests. And I'd forgotten about the 4L65E, thanks for the reminder.