V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

HEY five7, good to see you over here! (And thanks for the added picture.)

Just as an aside, the picture below shows something that I think is really cool/fortunate about my swap - take a look at how the clutch master cylinder fits neatly into the little "dent" in the fenderwell:


That isn't something that I did, it just happens to be there, in the right place to make it work. (One other thing about this picture - it's one of the few in this thread that shows the actual color of the underhood paint, rather than the overly bright "fruit-punch-red" that most of the other pictures are showing...)

Catching up to the present, here is how I started the day this last Saturday... (Ignore the bare walls, I've been putting up drywall, & the engine swap has been more important to me than getting pictures up!)


I was fortunate enough to have three guys from my local F-body group come over & lend a hand for a little bit. With their help I was able to see that my hopes of keeping the K-member notch pretty small weren't exactly realistic. So we lifted the engine out again & I fired up the grinder again. After another test-fitting, I decided that it would probably be a good idea to extend the notch on one side, so we went through the routine one more time. Finally thinking that we'd be able to weld up the notch & drop it in, we went to set it in for the final test fit - and found that it wouldn't line up with the motor mounts! (WTH??!?!?) Fortunately the K-member was still open at the bottom & we were easily able to loosen the bolts holding the mounts & get the bit of additional distance that we needed.

In addition to that, we found that there was still just a little bit of contact where the oil pan curves from the vertical to the horizontal right as it begins to go over the K-frame, so we decided to hammer the top/rear portion of the open K for a bit of added clearance in that spot. With that taken care of, my buddy Mark fired up the welder & started to close up the back of the K-member.


We formed a 2" tall piece of 1/8" thick steel to close most of it, but because of the odd shape of the K-member, it was necessary to cut some other small pieces & fit them in as well. Forming the largest piece, & then cutting & welding all of the other pieces into place & grinding the welds down smooth took up a good bit of the rest of the afternoon,


but eventually we got it to where it should be fine even with the occasional dragstrip launch, so I slapped on some more Chassis Saver paint & started to lower the engine in - at which point I remembered that I still needed to finish closing the hole that I made in the firewall for the clutch line, AND that I hadn't yet torqued down the oil pan bolts!

I hadn't torqued down the oil pan because I wanted to make sure that I had the placement totally correct, & I couldn't do that until I had the engine off of the engine stand. So, I found my straightedge square that I use for home repairs, we bolted the "faceplate" for the McLeod bellhousing into place, & tightened it down to the designated 18 ft/lbs. And found that the pan had moved a bit as we were tightening it down. Loosened all of the bolts & did it one more time, this time ensuring that we checked the alignment every 3rd or 4th bolt. This time it stayed put.

The other part - closing up the firewall hole for the clutch line - was basically to fix a mistake that I made when using the hole punch that I described above. In a nutshell, when I was creating the hole, it was late, I was tired, but still trying to push myself to get more done - so I used a larger punch than necessary, & didn't realize it until I was already done. To recover from that dumb little "oops", I bought a metal plug, created the correct-sized hole in the center & filled the difference with a grommet that I had:


And here it is installed:


All in all, I guess it doesn't look too horrible, but it irritates the hell outta me that I did it in the first place... By this time it was starting to get a little bit late, & we were wanting to call it a day - but we stayed at it just long enough to get to this point:


And there she is - finally in the car where she belongs!! I've kept it attached to the hoist just in case there's something else that we need to do, but I'm fairly sure that I won't need to mess with it again. Feels kind of good to have that part done, now I can start doing things like test-fitting the headers, routing the wiring harness, etc. But I'll probably get the transmission & driveshaft completed first, that way I'll avoid surprises when building & routing the exhaust.

And, as of today, just over 50 days to my self-appointed deadline...

letsrunem

iTrader: (15)

Deadlines for fun-based project cars are pointless. They start to be less fun when you rush them. Take your time and it will come together. Looks good!

five7kid

The pic you posted of your notch looks like my first cut, except I went to the edge of that hole in the middle. I ended up angling the sides as well, seems to have worked alright.

Looks like those Trans Dapt mount plates worked. Did you put poly inserts in the chassis side?

And the big question - have you scratched the engine bay paint yet???

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Well, regarding the "deadlines are pointless" note, I certainly agree with you up to a point - much of the "value" (because I can't think of a better word at the moment) of doing a project like this is indeed "in the journey itself", as clichéd as that sounds. But at the same time, I was able to drive the car very little during the summer of '07 because of engine mods that I did that year, and not at all in '08 because I'd pulled & sold the engine & transmission for this swap. So at this point, I'm REALLY ready to get back behind the wheel of a responsive car again. (And of course as I'm typing this, my system's playing Joe Satriani's "Summer Song", which is only making it worse...)

With the suspension mods I've done in previous years, there are some twisty mountain roads around here that are a lot of fun - and I would like to have a full summer's worth of wringing all I can out of 'em, especially with more power & a 6-speed trans! (And thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it.)

Yeah, the plates seem to have worked well - and yes, I am using poly motor-mount inserts, which are absolutely FIGHTING me as far as getting the passenger-side "through-bolt" in...

Yeah, when I was under there yesterday, it looks as though there's a good 3/8" horizontal clearance, & maybe just a bit less than that vertically. Should work fine, I think. (Will double-check once I finally have the 2nd motor mount bolt in...)

OHHH yeah! The front pulley just barely caught the top radiator support one of the times that we were putting it in, the wiper motor (which I had painted at the same time) caught a scratch from one of the L-brackets, & the pass-side shock tower's been a bit of a casualty with everything I've done to try to get the last 1/2" or so for the motor-mount bolt... I've always said "screw it, it's a car, it's not the Mona freakin' Lisa!" - & now I guess I'm getting tested on that...

I ALSO re-learned yesterday that an installed spark plug is not even remotely close to being a match for a swinging 4-lb mini-sledge...

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Haven't had much time to work on the project lately, but there have been a couple times that I've been out there for 20-30 minutes at a time, trying to make some progress... All I can say is

Motor mount bolts SUCK!!!!

My wife actually came out to help a couple times & tonight I had one of my local F-body buds come over to help (Mike, you ROCK!) & tonight I'm actually behind where I was the last time I posted.

Last time, I had one bolt in all the way, & just needed to get the 2nd one all the way through the poly insert - tonight, I lifted the block out of the car, used the "engine tilter" to angle the front of the block up so I could fill it with antifreeze, then tried to set it down again so that I could insert the bolts through the motor mounts. It just ain't happenin'...

Looks like I need about another 1/2" or so, & I really don't know where I can get it from. The motor mounts themselves are up as high as we can get them, & the only two possibilities I can see are 1) enlarging the holes in the poly inserts (NOT gonna happen!) or 2) enlarging the holes in the metal "clamshells" that go over the inserts (really don't want to do that either!).

Going to sleep on it, & hope that something brilliant comes to me...

EDIT: OK, here's a dumb question - the bolts that go horizontally through the motor mounts need to be at least a grade 5 or thereabouts, don't they?

topher455

iTrader: (6)

Not terribly pshched about answering your ? after reading your sig but... Most kits come with grade 5 bolts but 8 would be good insurance. Your choice.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Topher, thanks for the response, especially given your annoyance at the line in my sig - I genuinely appreciate it.

The line in my sig isn't intended to slam anyone (or anyone's project) in the least - it's just that here you have this AMAZING engine, something that very probably has more engineering built into it than the first rockets that went to the moon, an engine that is like God's gift to hot-rodders in that we can have fuel efficiency with STUPID, previously-undreamed-of power levels, and then it's being fed by something that (in most cases) is largely unchanged from 1964...? It just kinda seems like a grotesque mis-match, & that a lot of the precision & engineering of the Gen-III/IV engines is being given up... (But, that's just my opinion, & it's probably worth what ya paid for it!)

Thanks again.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (23)

i'd put my carb tuning skills on a ls1 up again EFI any day of the week Did I mention lower air intake temps from the cold low pressure fuel instead of higher EFI pressures adding heat to the fuel and no intake temp drop. No reason you can't drop 2 jet sizes in the primaries to lean out a mixture for great economy then 5 minutes later blast down the track with bigger jets while making more power than a stock intake and throttle body.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

That's excellent man, big props to ya! (Seriously.)

But here's a challenge for ya - Let's say that you've got a wideband O2 that's logging the data for each pass you make, & you discover that you've got the mixture dead-on, EXCEPT that it's going lean or rich from (say) 3700 to 5100 RPM. How are you going to correct for that without messing up the correct A/F ratio at the rest of the powerband?

I'd think that heat transfer through the cast-metal intake would negate any pressure-related fuel temp differential (which would likely be fairly small in any event). But I'm not an engineer, so this would be one of those highly-theoretical discussions along the lines of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"...

OK, first off, you're comparing an aftermarket carb intake to a stock EFI intake & TB?

Granted, the carb intake manifold is also the beneficiary of a lot of R&D, but if you look at things like 'even mixture distribution to each cylinder' or 'ability to automatically adjust to weather/altitude changes', I certainly wouldn't think that the carb intake has any kind of advantage... (Yes, I know that much of the country doesn't have to consider the effects of altitude changes, but here you really see a pronounced difference in how a vehicle behaves when it has a carburetor.)

Anyway, I really didn't intend to go off on a tangent like this, & if I've offended anyone, I apologize, since that wasn't the intent. I know that a carb is the right choice for some people/situations, it just seems that putting one on a highly-advanced 21st-century engine is like "wearing high-top basketball shoes with a tuxedo" to me. Maybe we can agree to disagree??

xpndbl3

iTrader: (23)

well if the a/f ratio changes dependent on rpm then that would mean I'd have to change my high speed air bleeds to even that out along the rpm curve. There also shouldn't be a lean #7&8 cylinder like is an issue with the EFI intakes. Also I'm just tossing out that it outflows the stock efi intake and tb just to slightly make a point about the superiority of a carb Either way it's apples to oranges, my "tune" for each mod costs me a $40 box of jets and 15 minutes of my time instead of a HP tuner or a dyno day at a shop. Plus when you get into the wild cams, a carb doesn't have any issue with it compared to a more challenging efi tune.

At the end of the day it's up to the wrencher or check book signer. Your car certainly looks great though and you should be proud of it.

a10beav

Looks like it's coming together pretty well!

topher455

iTrader: (6)

LOL Im not gonna get bent out of shape here. To each his own. I have had newer injected hot rods and they were fun but I really wanted something that felt a bit retro. I bought my 86 regal with a carb on it and I wanted it to stay that way. I was actually gonna put a built Buick 455 in. At the same time after building a few ls motors for friends I was amazed at the architecture of the motors and power production. Then I found a carbed intake and that was it. The only complaint I have is that since it was gonna be turbo I used the zo6 cam and since I chose to run n/a later tuning has been a pita. Carbs do not like 117.5 lsa! LOL

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Now THAT would be cool as hell. One of my uncles had a '72 GS for a while... I really liked that car...

Whoa! No kidding! You've got like NO overlap, & very little vacuum signal!

Cool. That's one of the main reasons that I enjoy discussions/debates like this - I always wind up learning something cool.

Heh, thanks. Yours looks cool as hell, I really like that blue...


Thanks man, as of yesterday it really IS now!


NOW I can start working on so many other things - routing wiring, doing the headers, installing the rest of the driveline... MAN it's a relief to have it finally in place!

topher455

iTrader: (6)

Looking goood. I always liked that body style. I had an 86 t/a years ago. The 455 would have been cool but I couldnt see dropping that kind of money to get 12mpg for 550hp esp when you can do it with a ls for half the money and with way better reliability. BBB oiling systems suck. As far as the cam nooooo overlap but too much signal 22-23" of vac at idle and more when cruising the carb is like WTF!!! My emulsion bleeds are hemmoraging!

van454

iTrader: (1)

coming along very nicely mate

oberth1

iTrader: (6)

post already!!! im dying over here!

V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Sorry for the delay Oberth (& anyone else who might be following this build) - I've had a fair bit of stuff happening with "real life", & not a whole heck of a lot of time lately to work on the car. (Even though I'm just under a week away from the deadline I set myself... ) On a personal level, I've found a consulting gig that at least gets me out of the house, & looks as though it could go full-time within a couple of months (and, as a bonus, sometimes allows me to play with some cool technology as well). I've also had to fix a problem with my daily driver, but fortunately that wasn't as bad as it first appeared. "Honey-do's", normal home stuff, & a certification class have been taking up the rest of my time.

The time that I have had to work on the GTA has been devoted to "unexciting" stuff like wiring. I've been TRYING to determine what some of these extra connectors are, & most of that effort has been devoted to me searching this site & a couple of others so that (hopefully!) I can answer my own questions. (I figure that if I'm going to occasionally gripe at someone else for asking a really-common question, then I'd better flippin' well practice what I preach, right??) The biggest PITA with that approach is that it can be slow (& often frustrating)... So, even though I broke down once, & took the pictures that I'd need to do this, I'm TRYING not to post another "What connectors are these??" thread.

The latest is that I'm concerned that I may have a similar wiring harness, but possibly not the correct one - and if that's the case, I'll probably end up breaking my "no credit cards" rule & just ordering a pre-made harness. Nothing like spending over $300 on something you can't use, so that then you can turn around & spend almost three times that much!

Anyway, one of my local friends came by & helped to route & hook up most of the connections on the engine harness, he had a great idea - since documentation for this engine is a bit tough to come by, why not just run to a dealership, find an Escalade/Tahoe/etc, & take all of the digital pics that you can?? So we did that, & it definitely helped some, but a lot of the connectors weren't NEARLY as accessible as you'd expect in a vehicle that size... (And it didn't help that a bunch of the pics came out blurry...)

Meanwhile, here's a slightly-updated picture to tide ya over - I'm seriously HOPING that I'll be able to get back to it (& make some major progress!) real soon...


OH, two more things! If you're following this project, look for an interesting announcement within the next week (hopefully not two weeks). And it LOOKS LIKE there's a pretty good chance that I might have a somewhat more... enthusiastic announcement in early June... (crossing my fingers!)

iansane

If you need to know what connectors are what I can try to help. PM/Email/link me to a picture of the connector/#pins/where on the harness it's at and I can take a look in the GM EPC to see If I can spot it (bonus points if you can read a part number off the connector body)

Deadlines are no fun because you always break them. I'm excited to see this thing prowling the streets.

alloymotorvation

Hey, looking good, glad to hear you got a job, I am still looking. I hope you can get it going under its own power before to long. Good luck with everything I will continue to follow your progress.

sinisterC4

What did you figure out on the front drive acc??