99C5JA

Just a reality check here. The C5 Z06 is not a low production model. Its going to be a very, very long time before you see these become collectible. Yes the resale is better, but considering the initial buy in cost the depreciation on both models seems much the same. Your friend with the coupe will be slower mod for mod until you actually start changing the big items like heads and cam. Then it becomes a drivers race. Though the Z06 will still maintain a slight advantage due to gearing and the ~100lb weight difference. Also as soon as you swap the heads and cam in that car you have negated a fair amount of what you paid extra for from a practical standpoint. I also disagree with the statement that you should not buy a Vette on a budget. I am on a budget and love mine. I would rather see someone who wants a C5 buy a nice used model in their price range rather than settle on something else.

CarsRFun

as I said before the 01+ engines have a ton of updates over the prev years I have a 99 so its not like I am biased, I just know the facts, so I would say again 01+

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

They don't have a ton. The upgrades they have are not justifyable to spend the extra money if you didn't want to. LS6 intake, LS6 clutch, LS6 oil pump, and larger MAF. That's it.

LS6 Intake - You can get one for $300 used, or upgrade to a FAST. I'd go with the FAST.
LS6 Clutch - As I mentioned before, you're going to need to replace the clutch anyway no matter what.
LS6 Pump - If the LS6 unit is so great, then why does everyone run a ported unit when they upgrade their cam? Again, another peice that will need to be replaced.
Larger MAF - You wouldn't need to upgrade that for some time, and when you do, they are cheap enough that it doesn't matter much.

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

Why not buy a cheaper C5 and mod it? You seem to only care about impressing people with your status-symbol Z06, so of course the Z06 fits your needs better. I have a better self esteem than that, so I can "settle" with "just" a base C5 because I buy the car for myself, not to be "exclusive".

Again, has anyone even seemed to care about resale? It's a freakin' Corvette. It's going to hold value no matter what. The fact is though, when you modify a car, you're throwing resale out the window because you never get the money back for the mods. So, with this understanding, I haven't EVER been hung up on resale. If you like the vehicle, buy the vehicle. If you only purchase vehicles on what you will get out of them at trade or private sale, then you're probably buying them for the wrong reasons.

CySevans

Don't forget LS6 heads, LS6 valley-pan cover... 360 rwhp stock. Go look at what ported LS6 heads cost. Heck, go look at what non-ported LS6 heads cost.

And, BTW, are you sure about the Z06 calipers? It was my understanding that they have larger pistons. The Z06 also has larger brake rotors and beefed-up brake lines. They are NOT the same as a standard C5 coupe at least in that respect. My Z06 stops a hell of a lot quicker than my mother-in-law's coupe.

To make a stock C5 into a Z06, you would need:

Heads
Cam and springs
Intake
MAF
Brake Calipers (maybe) and performance pads
Brake Lines
Clutch and flywheel
Larger Wheels
Larger Tires
Swaybars
Springs
Shocks
Brake cooling ducts
Exhaust Manifolds
Titanium exhaust system
Catalytic converters

Now add those up and let me know where you are.

CarsRFun

Missing somethings the block was changed in mid 99 anyone that knows about them, will advise to not use pre mid 99 for high horse power apps, the pre 99 block had 2 holes in the back of the block for the pressurized oil coming from the filter making them more susceptible to starving the pasenger-side lifter galley of oil... also the 01 or LS6 blocks have cast in windows for bay to bay crankcase breathing... this and the fact that they have the LS6 intake, better clutch, and several other items. 2cent deposited.

99C5JA

Heads - To make big power you would be upgrading to ported castings or aftermarkets. Any reputable aftermarket LSx head will easily outflow the LS6 casting. For an estimate we'll say $2000

Cam and Springs - The LS6 cam and springs are good for factory pieces. But again they aren't going to put out or hold up to any serious power. Cam and springs we'll say $1000.

Intake - depends on year (add on $400 for an LS6)

MAF - not really worthwhile unless you are trying to get that extra little bit (and the 01+'s have this MAF)

Brake calipers and lines - Same on all C5's

Clutch and Flywheel - All '01+ C5's use this setup. If you want more than 400rwhp you will be upgrading. I paid $1100 for my RAM setup, so I will use that.

Larger Wheels - $1100 and I do think these would be necessary on a base C5.

Larger Tires - $1200

Sway bars - $500 will get you the Hotchkiss set which are beefier than the Z06.

Springs - $300 used or takeoff

Shocks - $300 for Bilstein sports, which are stiffer than Z06 shocks

Brake cooling ducts - no idea here

Exhaust manifolds - uhhh yeah. Like anyone would spend money for Z06 manifolds instead of headers. Headers will cost $1500 for a set.

Titanium exhaust - $450 used on most any forum.

Catalytic converters - included in the header price.

So these parts would cost a person about $9450. Subtract the exhaust and suspension goodies and you are down to $7950. If the C5 is a Z51 car then the owner would not have to replace the springs. The titanium exhaust is a take it or leave it. Its to tame for my tastes. BUT this combo could make 460-480rwhp compared to the Z06's stock 365rwhp.

So say you want that kind of power on a Z06. You would be adding heads, cam + valvetrain, clutch, and headers. So you would be adding $5700.

Look at the difference in price of the vehicle and you can see why a non Z06 C5 is attractive to a modder.

BIGBOS

Go with the Z06

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

BINGO. This is where I am coming from and exactly the point I'm trying to make. The Z06 is PERFECT for the person who isn't into modifying any further than some basic bolt ons. When I get a car, I'm going all out. I'm done with the little bolt on cars (been there, done that on my 01 Z and 00 SS). The Z06 also seems to be the answer (according to some people) for making a better impression or prestige and might seemingly have more importance in some circles of ignorance. This exclusivity club might be the ticket for some people, but that's not the kind of person I am - nor was it any part of reasoning for the original question asked in the thread. As I said in my very first reply, this is like a Z28 vs SS question.

CySevans - I wasn't talking about LS1 vs LS6 when refering to engine differences, I was simply refering to 97-00 LS1 vs 01-04 LS1. As for the brakes, I've seen both the base C5 and Z06 calipers side by side, and the only thing I could visually see between the two was the red powdercoat. When you buy pads for them, it's the same for both the coupe and Z06. If there truely is a difference, then it's not in the calipers or the pads.

CarsRFun - The LS1 block is actually better to use on high hp applications. I cannot recall the exact reasoning behind it, but I'm sure it would be easy to find on here with a search. When I'm talking about stuff, I'm usually only refering to 99+ anyway since you've got several differences with the 97/98 engines.

BIGBOS - You're car is I love the wheels.

falconskaterjohn

UGH soo many good points on both sides.....I think I am gonna go with big power aka mod-central....so idk...still always loved the z06 but I am looking deeper in the C5 FRC. Thanks alot for your help guys!!! You guys sure can argue a side well lol

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

This was a great thread. I'm just glad we all kept it clean and hopefully we all learned some stuff.

Now let's get some more replies

falconskaterjohn

[QUOTE=DMNSPD]This was a great thread. I'm just glad we all kept it clean and hopefully we all learned some stuff.[QUOTE]

amen to that!!

CySevans

white89_350

I'm sorry but if your on a budget the vette isn't the right car for you. I have seen some pretty high prices for replacement parts like the clutch although I am a little ignorant here. You guys love the cheaper C5 and I don't. When I drve by a regular C5 I think to myself "that ain't a Z06". Sorry, but I like the fact that mine is more rare and sought after. That along with the better performance from the get go make it way better for a mere $3-5k.

Tranzor

Well, the same could be said for any LSx powered car... it would be much cheaper to just get some old SBC and mod that. Fact is, lots of people enjoy modding different cars, and the C5 is no different. If I were picking a new car, I would be really tempted to get a Z06... but only if I was planning on keeping the mods to a minimum.

If I were planning on doing lots of modding... I wouldn't spend the extra for the Z06, I'd just buy a C5 for those purposes. The whole exclusivity thing isn't a concern for me... which is why I bought a Z28 instead of an SS. Not the same thing when it comes to performance difference like there is between a C5 and Z06, but the exclusivity factor is still there. Personally, I think modding an A4 C5 to be a stealthy kick *** car would be great. Nice converter, gearing, stealth cam, bolt-ons, maybe even a power adder. Thing is... everyone knows a Z06 is fast and will hand people their asses. Most people wouldn't consider a regular A4 C5 a threat until they're getting waxed by stealthily modded one.

Bottom line, they're all Corvettes, and they're all great cars. Z06 is great for the enthusiast who wants the performance right out of the box with OEM reliability, C5 is great for the enthusiast that wants to mod their own car the way they want it, while starting from a more affordable platform but still maintaining the "It's a Corvette" feel.

demonspeed

iTrader: (7)

The clutch is the same for any LS1. The reason you see high prices is because they are for the people who have no clue and don't research and buy it because it is "for a Corvette", when it actuallity, it'll work with any LS1. Obviously there are several things that are Vette specific, but for engine stuff, there is no difference.

When you drive by a regular C5 and think it's "just a C5 and not a Z06" it's because you're ignorant. Everyone that isn't paying attention to where this thread has gone keeps saying "more performance to start with". You're missing the point - if you can get over the fact that you need to impress people by having a Z06, then you realize that if you want to mod, the base coupe is the better way to go. I hate to be the one starting to throw mud, but you're the type of person that is the stereotypical Corvette owner. You don't need to try and defend your position about purchasing your Z06 (because that's all it seems you're doing) as this thread is beyond the status symbol - I believe it's turned to strictly performance.

It's obvious that no one is saying the Z06 has less than stellar performance, nor are we saying it's not a great performance bargain when looking for a vehicle to not mess with much. What is the truth that when you want to throw big money into a Corvette, the coupe *might* just be your ticket.

For everyone else (Cy, 99C5JA) you guys are the Vette guys that aren't blinded by the "fluff" of owning a Corvette and are actually plesant to converse with

c5golfguy

iTrader: (1)

I'll throw another debate into the fire of the c5 coupe to z06 equation. INSURANCE! Huge difference, especially for those of us that are still single and no kids.

For my 2000 frc, I pay less then 100 a month in full coverage 500 deduc. Got a quote on 01-02 z06, goes to 160 a month. I also have a perfect driving record! No blemishes in over 8 years and I'm single, not married and no kids.

Goes right along the argument of buying a non z06 car, putting 8k in mods. 460rwhp, cheaper payments, cheaper insurance. Who are you kidding?

CySevans

Now that's strange. My Z06 is actually costing me less a month to insure than my Trans Am did. Who is your insurance company? I use State Farm.

The most expensive car on my policy is my wife's gutless 4 banger Eclipse Spyder (convertible).

Thanks!

Honestly, there's a reason behind my decision to go with the Z06. And that's because the wife unit is down on expensive modifications. She watched me dump thousands into the Trans Am to the point that it simply was not drivable (for her, anyway) anymore. It was too loud, it shook wildly (big cam), and it shifted like a truck (so she says - stiff clutch). My mother-in-law's stock 2001 Corvette coupe handled better than my Trans Am even after spending thousands on chassis and suspension, but the coupe didn't quite have the power I wanted (it was an A4 - my Trans Am was an M6). As soon as I drove the Z06, I was hooked, and it had plenty of power and excellent handling to keep me satisfied with it knowing that I wouldn't be doing any kind of modifications to it anytime soon. So, it's not like I don't want to modify it, truth is I can't. The only way I am going to get more performance in a Corvette now is to convince her to let me get a 2007 C6 Z06, which I already have. She says if I can afford the payments, go for it. We'll see. I'm still working on that scenario. Meantime, I am stuck with what I have, and I'm actually quite happy with it all things considered.

So, in summary of this thread, after playing Devil's Advocate , if you're going to mod it anyway, you are financially better off going with a conventional coupe or a base FRC (a better platform for a racer, IMO, due to its more rigid body construction). If you're not planning on doing any modifications anytime soon, then a Z06 has plenty of power and performance to keep you happy.

white89_350

How am I unpleasant. I am mearly trying to put in my two cents and you are only telling me how wrong I am. I just want the guy asking the question to know what others think and you are trying to make me sound stupid. I know enough and I am 100% satisfied that i steped up to get the Z06. I always try and buy without spending a lot of dough, but sometimes after a car purchase I look back and think I should have spent the extra money that is all. Are you trying to tell me I am not wanted on this board and if so point out where I have been bashing anyone or trying to be a little helpful? I almost think you want the people to get a coupe to make you feel better. Thanks for being rude to me.

jaredwayt

buy a frc and mod the hell out it, and then you have the best of both worlds!!!