9.98@138.80mph--stock bottom end 346 n/a
11-02-2008, 12:34 PM
#201
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i have no idea why the laws of physics came into this.
Like I just told Rob in PM. people are doubting this based on two facts:
1--MPH does not add up based on claimed weight and HP level
2--HUGE gain in MPH in last 1/8th is very akin to a power adder or high revving big cube car.
The folks saying this are saying it because we have been around a million setups over the years of racing along with the timeslips attached to those setups, and nobody has ever seen a setup like this do what it is.
He accused me of "pumping him for knowledge" about his setup in PM because I asked about the weight, and ONLY the weight. I honestly laughed out loud. That kind of bullshit attitude only adds to the problem. I have a blown camaro with a th400 in it, what in the **** do I care about his motor for?
Like I just told Rob in PM. people are doubting this based on two facts:
1--MPH does not add up based on claimed weight and HP level
2--HUGE gain in MPH in last 1/8th is very akin to a power adder or high revving big cube car.
The folks saying this are saying it because we have been around a million setups over the years of racing along with the timeslips attached to those setups, and nobody has ever seen a setup like this do what it is.
He accused me of "pumping him for knowledge" about his setup in PM because I asked about the weight, and ONLY the weight. I honestly laughed out loud. That kind of bullshit attitude only adds to the problem. I have a blown camaro with a th400 in it, what in the **** do I care about his motor for?
I'm sorry...but the laws of physics do matter here...if it's not physically possible (very simple formula for this...F=m x a, where F= force, m= mass, and a= acceleration) then he's lying. The data is there...use it and prove he's lying.
As for being around "millions of set-ups" over the years, I presume that's an exaggeration of some sort. If you'd recognize that technology moves forward and the Rob has employed the latest of technology in his car to come up with an unseen combination (not one of the "millions" you've seen before) and it's worked then this whole argument becomes moot. But some like to hold on to their "old" ideas of what can and can't be accomplished based on "drag math." Wow...tell Tony Schumacher (who has absolutely dominated TF Dragster over the past 2 years) about drag math and I'm certain he'd have a good laugh.
11-02-2008, 02:01 PM
#202
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I talked to Rob via PM and I can understand if he is just a small shop/ group of friends why there is secrecy. That being said props on what is a pretty amazing achievement. The one thing I question however is how does this car run more mph and pick up more in the last 1/8 then cars (C5's) with more power?
11-02-2008, 02:29 PM
#203
Reminds me of that 70s song, MONEY MONEY MONEY, MOOOONEY.
What you ran, excellent. Great time, great MPH, great launch. I was in awe watching the vid. I was extremely impressed with how you handled your vette, I was wishing I could get my C5 do that.
How you say you accomplished that, BS.
You expect us to believe that you and AMR have secrets that no one else knows or can do? Or that all of the sudden the laws of drag racing do not apply to you?
The only reason for the secrecy is to make money, period. Prove everyone here wrong, and open things up. Prove to the veterens that have been here and do this for a living. You've lost your integrity.
I would respect it more if you and AMR came on and said, this is what we did, heres how we did it and the video to back it up. Sure others could try to catch up and replicate your set up, but you and AMR would already be in the lead. You would be the Iphone of the industry, setting new standards while everyone else in playing catch up. If you have as much research and time involved in the set up like you say you do, your miles ahead of the other shops/tuners. By the time others might catch up to what your doing, you could already be well established with loyal customers beating down your doors.
Unless I missed it somewhere, is AMR a sponsor here or on CF? Looks like an advertising ploy to me.
What you ran, excellent. Great time, great MPH, great launch. I was in awe watching the vid. I was extremely impressed with how you handled your vette, I was wishing I could get my C5 do that.
How you say you accomplished that, BS.
You expect us to believe that you and AMR have secrets that no one else knows or can do? Or that all of the sudden the laws of drag racing do not apply to you?
The only reason for the secrecy is to make money, period. Prove everyone here wrong, and open things up. Prove to the veterens that have been here and do this for a living. You've lost your integrity.
I would respect it more if you and AMR came on and said, this is what we did, heres how we did it and the video to back it up. Sure others could try to catch up and replicate your set up, but you and AMR would already be in the lead. You would be the Iphone of the industry, setting new standards while everyone else in playing catch up. If you have as much research and time involved in the set up like you say you do, your miles ahead of the other shops/tuners. By the time others might catch up to what your doing, you could already be well established with loyal customers beating down your doors.
Unless I missed it somewhere, is AMR a sponsor here or on CF? Looks like an advertising ploy to me.
11-02-2008, 03:06 PM
#204
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Reminds me of that 70s song, MONEY MONEY MONEY, MOOOONEY.
What you ran, excellent. Great time, great MPH, great launch. I was in awe watching the vid. I was extremely impressed with how you handled your vette, I was wishing I could get my C5 do that.
How you say you accomplished that, BS.
You expect us to believe that you and AMR have secrets that no one else knows or can do? Or that all of the sudden the laws of drag racing do not apply to you?
The only reason for the secrecy is to make money, period. Prove everyone here wrong, and open things up. Prove to the veterens that have been here and do this for a living. You've lost your integrity.
I would respect it more if you and AMR came on and said, this is what we did, heres how we did it and the video to back it up. Sure others could try to catch up and replicate your set up, but you and AMR would already be in the lead. You would be the Iphone of the industry, setting new standards while everyone else in playing catch up. If you have as much research and time involved in the set up like you say you do, your miles ahead of the other shops/tuners. By the time others might catch up to what your doing, you could already be well established with loyal customers beating down your doors.
Unless I missed it somewhere, is AMR a sponsor here or on CF? Looks like an advertising ploy to me.
What you ran, excellent. Great time, great MPH, great launch. I was in awe watching the vid. I was extremely impressed with how you handled your vette, I was wishing I could get my C5 do that.
How you say you accomplished that, BS.
You expect us to believe that you and AMR have secrets that no one else knows or can do? Or that all of the sudden the laws of drag racing do not apply to you?
The only reason for the secrecy is to make money, period. Prove everyone here wrong, and open things up. Prove to the veterens that have been here and do this for a living. You've lost your integrity.
I would respect it more if you and AMR came on and said, this is what we did, heres how we did it and the video to back it up. Sure others could try to catch up and replicate your set up, but you and AMR would already be in the lead. You would be the Iphone of the industry, setting new standards while everyone else in playing catch up. If you have as much research and time involved in the set up like you say you do, your miles ahead of the other shops/tuners. By the time others might catch up to what your doing, you could already be well established with loyal customers beating down your doors.
Unless I missed it somewhere, is AMR a sponsor here or on CF? Looks like an advertising ploy to me.
i did what u said what u said should've been done.
Ran the time, posted the vid and slip,and all the mods like anyone else does and stated 346 n/a. What else do you want? Cam specs?
Maybe u didn't read the thread.
11-02-2008, 03:09 PM
#205
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there is no reason for the secercy unless
A. you plan on racing in an organization and making money.
B. want to market and sell your secrets
you have said you don't want to do either...so why all the secrecy? wouldn't you want other vets running these times and competing back and forth and thus lowering them even further?
Chad
A. you plan on racing in an organization and making money.
B. want to market and sell your secrets
you have said you don't want to do either...so why all the secrecy? wouldn't you want other vets running these times and competing back and forth and thus lowering them even further?
Chad
11-02-2008, 03:27 PM
#206
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there is no reason for the secercy unless
A. you plan on racing in an organization and making money.
B. want to market and sell your secrets
you have said you don't want to do either...so why all the secrecy? wouldn't you want other vets running these times and competing back and forth and thus lowering them even further?
Chad
A. you plan on racing in an organization and making money.
B. want to market and sell your secrets
you have said you don't want to do either...so why all the secrecy? wouldn't you want other vets running these times and competing back and forth and thus lowering them even further?
Chad
I certainly don't have all the answers as to why this car performs well.
Its not my place,however, to give away things like cam specs or logs.
I have consistently helped hundreds of vette owners over the years with drag racing, including articles, emails, pms, etc..
Ask around corvette forums and I guarantee you most people will agree.
i don't make any money racing or on events that I administrate so everyone can race and have fun.
Corvettes vs The World which will be held in March 2009 comes to mind.
Last edited by robz*; 11-02-2008 at 03:54 PM.
11-02-2008, 07:45 PM
#208
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What am I shady about?
You even said I shouldn't have to divulge all of our info that we worked long and hard on.
My car has been running strong all of 2008 since we did the new setup.
I ran 134.40 on my first full pass in average air.
I also ran the the local 10.0 index all year and ran 10.2x's in heads up competition. I ran 10.2's in the summer also. Then 10.1x's.
Do some research before you past judgement. I have many threads out there with tons of info. I think I gave away enough info out over the years to help people out.
You even said I shouldn't have to divulge all of our info that we worked long and hard on.
My car has been running strong all of 2008 since we did the new setup.
I ran 134.40 on my first full pass in average air.
I also ran the the local 10.0 index all year and ran 10.2x's in heads up competition. I ran 10.2's in the summer also. Then 10.1x's.
Do some research before you past judgement. I have many threads out there with tons of info. I think I gave away enough info out over the years to help people out.
Your car did not go 134-138 on your full weight z06 with anywhere between 464-500 rwhp.
One of our customers extensively races his Z06 very regularly with a VERY well sorted out setup. Full weight nothing removed with a legal 5-pt in it It makes 511 rwhp (ties the highest rwhp results on multiple dynos ive ever seen/heard of or around in person or on the internet) on a 346" with the on CCW bigs/littles on a healthy amount of tire, 3.90 rear gear, hooking in the 1.4x 60 fts, driving the wheels off of it in negative DA and the car has a best mph of 126-128 depending on conditions.... You are not making measurably more power than this car.
Glad to hear the spray is working well on your car or your big cube motor is sorted out. From the timeslip, your sprayed it in high gear.
Nitrous setups are soooooo easy to hide where you could leave the hood open all day and no one could find it. Hidden dry kits, kits plumbed into the rear of the intake manifold etcetc are very easy to hide. Even small 5lb nitrous bottles in the under body of the car is very easy to hide. If you put any effort in it no one will have a chance of spotting it no matter how much looking they do.
[/B]
Last edited by SoCalSpd; 11-02-2008 at 08:05 PM.
11-02-2008, 08:13 PM
#209
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I could run 9.98 if I added a little bit of spray to my car to.. I went 10.99 @122mph with a 3600lb car. N/A and stock bottom end. I made similar hp #'s through a stalled A4 as the OP. 447rwhp and 403rwtq. So I say a true statement but only on spray.. Most likey a 150-200 pill. Thats the only way he could get that much mph between the 1/8 and the 1/4mile times..
11-02-2008, 08:37 PM
#210
Your car did not go 134-138 on your full weight z06 with anywhere between 464-500 rwhp.
One of our customers extensively races his Z06 very regularly with a VERY well sorted out setup. Full weight nothing removed with a legal 5-pt in it It makes 511 rwhp (ties the highest rwhp results on multiple dynos ive ever seen/heard of or around in person or on the internet) on a 346" with the on CCW bigs/littles on a healthy amount of tire, 3.90 rear gear, hooking in the 1.4x 60 fts, driving the wheels off of it in negative DA and the car has a best mph of 126-128 depending on conditions.... You are not making measurably more power than this car.
Glad to hear the spray is working well on your car or your big cube motor is sorted out. From the timeslip, your sprayed it in high gear.
Nitrous setups are soooooo easy to hide where you could leave the hood open all day and no one could find it. Hidden dry kits, kits plumbed into the rear of the intake manifold etcetc are very easy to hide. Even small 5lb nitrous bottles in the under body of the car is very easy to hide. If you put any effort in it no one will have a chance of spotting it no matter how much looking they do.
[/b]
One of our customers extensively races his Z06 very regularly with a VERY well sorted out setup. Full weight nothing removed with a legal 5-pt in it It makes 511 rwhp (ties the highest rwhp results on multiple dynos ive ever seen/heard of or around in person or on the internet) on a 346" with the on CCW bigs/littles on a healthy amount of tire, 3.90 rear gear, hooking in the 1.4x 60 fts, driving the wheels off of it in negative DA and the car has a best mph of 126-128 depending on conditions.... You are not making measurably more power than this car.
Glad to hear the spray is working well on your car or your big cube motor is sorted out. From the timeslip, your sprayed it in high gear.
Nitrous setups are soooooo easy to hide where you could leave the hood open all day and no one could find it. Hidden dry kits, kits plumbed into the rear of the intake manifold etcetc are very easy to hide. Even small 5lb nitrous bottles in the under body of the car is very easy to hide. If you put any effort in it no one will have a chance of spotting it no matter how much looking they do.
[/b]
11-02-2008, 09:04 PM
#211
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I can believe 132-133mph all day long, but 139mph I don't believe, not from stock cubes and just a bit lighter.
Where do you shift Robz, solid roller?
Maybe it's a 13:1 SR setup.
Where do you shift Robz, solid roller?
Maybe it's a 13:1 SR setup.
11-03-2008, 01:37 AM
#213
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What secrets ?
I certainly don't have all the answers as to why this car performs well.
Its not my place,however, to give away things like cam specs or logs.
I have consistently helped hundreds of vette owners over the years with drag racing, including articles, emails, pms, etc..
Ask around corvette forums and I guarantee you most people will agree.
i don't make any money racing or on events that I administrate so everyone can race and have fun.
Corvettes vs The World which will be held in March 2009 comes to mind.
I certainly don't have all the answers as to why this car performs well.
Its not my place,however, to give away things like cam specs or logs.
I have consistently helped hundreds of vette owners over the years with drag racing, including articles, emails, pms, etc..
Ask around corvette forums and I guarantee you most people will agree.
i don't make any money racing or on events that I administrate so everyone can race and have fun.
Corvettes vs The World which will be held in March 2009 comes to mind.
what heads? how much do they flow, CC size, etc. what CR are you running, how high are you spinning the motor.
just answer the question on why to hide those things.
Chad
11-03-2008, 06:37 AM
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why not cam specs? what's there to gain by hiding them? again I can understand if your selling the cams why, but your not.
what heads? how much do they flow, CC size, etc. what CR are you running, how high are you spinning the motor.
just answer the question on why to hide those things.
Chad
what heads? how much do they flow, CC size, etc. what CR are you running, how high are you spinning the motor.
just answer the question on why to hide those things.
Chad
Try and figure out a few simple things on your own, it's not hard even for me.
By glancing at a few of the recent posts, yet again people aren't reading the thread which is likely because of all the bs they would have to sift thru. Read before you speak.
Last edited by robz*; 11-03-2008 at 07:21 AM.
11-03-2008, 07:11 AM
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A few final thoughts.
I don't deny this is an interesting debate since it involves "territory" that most cars haven't been in with this particular setup. I don't mind skeptics.
If it wasn't my car, I would likely be involved in the debate.
The first thing I would do however before chosing a side is read everything and do the math to see if it is physically possible first. If so, I would be careful to accuse a person of lying for the sake of the individual(dispectful to personal attack others) and the fact that it could blow up in my face.
The same few jealous individuals who have been spreading rumors have a history of such and have been proven wrong in the past. It's easy and perhaps human nature for people to jump on the bandwagon and believe the lies if it's something they haven't figure out how to do. Perhaps not many capable people have even tried to or want to.
I'm no math/physics guy but I decided to do the math for the first time and it made sense that my car is capable of the mph; something that many refuse to do yet have no problem accusing me of lying and expect me to be gracious.
In my world this is no great achievement; finding ways to be a great father is.
I don't deny this is an interesting debate since it involves "territory" that most cars haven't been in with this particular setup. I don't mind skeptics.
If it wasn't my car, I would likely be involved in the debate.
The first thing I would do however before chosing a side is read everything and do the math to see if it is physically possible first. If so, I would be careful to accuse a person of lying for the sake of the individual(dispectful to personal attack others) and the fact that it could blow up in my face.
The same few jealous individuals who have been spreading rumors have a history of such and have been proven wrong in the past. It's easy and perhaps human nature for people to jump on the bandwagon and believe the lies if it's something they haven't figure out how to do. Perhaps not many capable people have even tried to or want to.
I'm no math/physics guy but I decided to do the math for the first time and it made sense that my car is capable of the mph; something that many refuse to do yet have no problem accusing me of lying and expect me to be gracious.
In my world this is no great achievement; finding ways to be a great father is.
Last edited by robz*; 11-03-2008 at 08:25 AM.
11-03-2008, 07:44 AM
#216
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Robert is Mother Teresa now...
First he chops down a cherry tree and can "tell no lie" now he is telling us "In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. "
Robert Zona for Sainthood!
He never lies, his only concern is his children, and clearly he has performed a miracle...
Clearly your car does not defy the laws of physics, it was simply a statement displaying the unlikely way that your car did what it did, the way that you said it did.
Don,
F=Ma has nothing to do with this. Once again you show your ignorance despite your claims of brilliance in the world of biochemistry.
First of all, F-Ma applies to bodies and forces in a vacuum… I doubt Atco Raceway is in a vacuum…
The formula F=Ma will only tell us the force needed to move an object, in this case, Rob’s car given the measured acceleration. Since no one is disputing the measured acceleration forces, we are using bad data to calculate a force. And since we do not know the true mass of the object, because Rob will not disclose it 11 pages later, our inability to calculate anything of value is only compounded by LACK OF DATA!
Thirdly, finding out the force on the car needed to cause that acceleration means nothing to begin with. WTF and I’m going to do with xxxx-Newtons? Maybe if we had the data for the coefficient of friction between the tires and the road, between the car and the air, if we may be able to calculate the torque needed, but the number we would get, would only be a constant torque needed to cause the acceleration, not the torque the car actually makes.
So what the **** would F=Ma tell us? It would only be an average since we do not even have a consistent record of his acceleration, we only have data from 5 points. This would cause a HUGE calculation errors. And going back to the fact that we still do not know the mass of the car, we can not even start computing. We only know 1 of the variables, maybe since you are so freaking brilliant you can tell us how to solve a single equations with 3 variables, only knowing the rough/crude value for one.
You truly are lost sir….
Go back to evaluating my spelling, you seem to have more of a leg to stand on in the grammatical world then in the scientific.
11-03-2008, 07:46 AM
#217
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Your car did not go 134-138 on your full weight z06 with anywhere between 464-500 rwhp.
One of our customers extensively races his Z06 very regularly with a VERY well sorted out setup. Full weight nothing removed with a legal 5-pt in it It makes 511 rwhp (ties the highest rwhp results on multiple dynos ive ever seen/heard of or around in person or on the internet) on a 346" with the on CCW bigs/littles on a healthy amount of tire, 3.90 rear gear, hooking in the 1.4x 60 fts, driving the wheels off of it in negative DA and the car has a best mph of 126-128 depending on conditions.... You are not making measurably more power than this car.
Glad to hear the spray is working well on your car or your big cube motor is sorted out. From the timeslip, your sprayed it in high gear.
Nitrous setups are soooooo easy to hide where you could leave the hood open all day and no one could find it. Hidden dry kits, kits plumbed into the rear of the intake manifold etcetc are very easy to hide. Even small 5lb nitrous bottles in the under body of the car is very easy to hide. If you put any effort in it no one will have a chance of spotting it no matter how much looking they do.
[/B]
One of our customers extensively races his Z06 very regularly with a VERY well sorted out setup. Full weight nothing removed with a legal 5-pt in it It makes 511 rwhp (ties the highest rwhp results on multiple dynos ive ever seen/heard of or around in person or on the internet) on a 346" with the on CCW bigs/littles on a healthy amount of tire, 3.90 rear gear, hooking in the 1.4x 60 fts, driving the wheels off of it in negative DA and the car has a best mph of 126-128 depending on conditions.... You are not making measurably more power than this car.
Glad to hear the spray is working well on your car or your big cube motor is sorted out. From the timeslip, your sprayed it in high gear.
Nitrous setups are soooooo easy to hide where you could leave the hood open all day and no one could find it. Hidden dry kits, kits plumbed into the rear of the intake manifold etcetc are very easy to hide. Even small 5lb nitrous bottles in the under body of the car is very easy to hide. If you put any effort in it no one will have a chance of spotting it no matter how much looking they do.
[/B]
Give my car another 100rwhp and -1500 DA and Im sure mid 130's would be possible easily.
11-07-2008, 08:44 AM
#218
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And you are clueless, Alex. While you are correct about bringing up frictional forces (we all know that Atco is not in a vacuum...just your brain is) the fricitonal losses are relatively inconsequential but one can make certain approximations in this case to account for them.
I would argue that there are sufficient data points to calculate whether the fact he was able to accelerate ~+33 mph over the last 1/8 mile is possible or not given his estimated HP and mass/weight. Since one would need to account for the inherent acceleration already in place at the first 1/8 mile juncture, you would need to integrate Newton's 2nd law (you have heard about 2nd order differential equations, haven't you) in order to get the speed:
Since D(t) is the 660' he traveled in time(t), then D''(t) = k. Remember, the second derivative of D(t) is acceleration, and it's constant, so k is an unknown constant which is an acceleration. And thus you integrate that in order to get the speed fucntion.
⌠ k dt = kt + C
Makes me wonder whether the accreditation of NJIT should be called into question...at least for what they teach in their math classes.
I would argue that there are sufficient data points to calculate whether the fact he was able to accelerate ~+33 mph over the last 1/8 mile is possible or not given his estimated HP and mass/weight. Since one would need to account for the inherent acceleration already in place at the first 1/8 mile juncture, you would need to integrate Newton's 2nd law (you have heard about 2nd order differential equations, haven't you) in order to get the speed:
Since D(t) is the 660' he traveled in time(t), then D''(t) = k. Remember, the second derivative of D(t) is acceleration, and it's constant, so k is an unknown constant which is an acceleration. And thus you integrate that in order to get the speed fucntion.
⌠ k dt = kt + C
Makes me wonder whether the accreditation of NJIT should be called into question...at least for what they teach in their math classes.
11-07-2008, 10:03 AM
#219
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I hope you weren't researching that all week, haha.
Whatever formula you come up with doesn't change the fact that most every manual H/C car gains about 28 mph on the back half when they maximize their cars potential. Looking at the video I think it is safe to say not much is left on the table here. Yet the back half MPH is way off. Its been proven time and again on the track which is why everybody here is skeptical. The people here know better than the people on the CF.
Whatever formula you come up with doesn't change the fact that most every manual H/C car gains about 28 mph on the back half when they maximize their cars potential. Looking at the video I think it is safe to say not much is left on the table here. Yet the back half MPH is way off. Its been proven time and again on the track which is why everybody here is skeptical. The people here know better than the people on the CF.
11-07-2008, 10:19 AM
#220
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They certainly understand the laws of motion far better than a bunch of tread heads...no disrespect intended.