Drag Racing Tech
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Opinions: Powerglide vs 4L60E/Leaded Fuel vs Alcohol

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-14-2009, 07:58 AM
  #21  
Internet Mechanic
iTrader: (17)
 
BlackScreaminMachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallingford CT
Posts: 9,831
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by tomcowle
At his weight and power your average "bracket glide" will be fine, no need for anything exotic.

Why is everyone so hungup on losing 60-times? We race in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile, not 60 feet. If I gained in the 60 and was 2 tenths quicker in overall ET I'd be pretty happy.
Considering it is a 1/8th mile car mainly and be it a stock cube LS1 which I do know what is done to it and there is not much left in it. So her loosing 1 tenth with more gear threw off the 1/8th enough for it not to be competitve.

She is trying to get the "Strength" but not having anymore Parasitic loss of power and hopefully be leaving with the same 60 foot, if not better.
Old 05-14-2009, 08:55 AM
  #22  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
gator's 99TA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 9,971
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

while i dont have an A2 (TH400 here) for your purposes i think the Powerglide is perfect. so many braket racers love powerglides. also, i bet with the right converter, your 60' consistently gets better. if you have a hot or marginal track (note you live in TX) the glide is king.

as for Alky, i have no experience. i have friends that braket race alky cars and love it.
Old 05-14-2009, 10:15 AM
  #23  
Launching!
iTrader: (5)
 
tomcowle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Geneva, Ohio
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by BlackScreaminMachine
Considering it is a 1/8th mile car mainly and be it a stock cube LS1 which I do know what is done to it and there is not much left in it. So her loosing 1 tenth with more gear threw off the 1/8th enough for it not to be competitve.

She is trying to get the "Strength" but not having anymore Parasitic loss of power and hopefully be leaving with the same 60 foot, if not better.
What???

Doesn't the OP state 10.50's in the 1/4mile and 6.60's in the 1/8mile? What does the 60' have to do with the desired ET?

Originally Posted by GIZMO
What if you could have your cake and eat it too?

There is a lot of ET to be gained in converter/transmission choice.

A few years back a friend of mine with a TH-350 behind a pretty stout LS1 blew his transmission. I leant him one of my TH-350's with a low gear set and some light weight parts and he picked up a tenth in the 1/8th! That wasn't even my best TH-350.
Thats great, have him buy my proflite and he'll pick up more!! or try my Rossler metric 200.

We've ran/run SuperStock, Stock and currently Comp, I understand the importance of gearing/ratios and convertor selection I'm just not seeing why someone wouldn't select a faster option even at the cost of the 60' especially with the smaller tire.

Last edited by tomcowle; 05-14-2009 at 10:21 AM.
Old 05-14-2009, 10:18 AM
  #24  
Internet Mechanic
iTrader: (17)
 
BlackScreaminMachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallingford CT
Posts: 9,831
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by tomcowle
What???

Doesn't the OP state 10.50's in the 1/4mile? What does the 60' have to do with the desired ET?



Thats great, have him buy my proflite and he'll pick up more!! or try my Rossler metric 200.
Michelle has gone to a 1/4 track but she does class racing which is 1/8th mile stuff.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...k-results.html

I swapped my 4.56 gears for 5.18s thinking it would pick up and it killed my ET's and MPH and 60"! I'm re-installing the 4.56s this weekend. Take it from me and don't try too high of a gear. My goal is to run 6.60s and 10.50s in hot weather and it's almost there. I run an all-motor car with a 4L trans.

4/16/09
0.052, 1.44, 6.631, 101.17, 71*, 150 trans, 18/18 tires
0.043, 1.42, 6.624, 101.37, 180 trans, 17/18.5 tires
0.037, 1.43, 6.625, 100.91, 165 trans, 16.5/17 tires
0.108, 1.42, 6.617, 100.82, 165 trans, 17.5 tires
0.023, 1.46, 6.665, 101.08, 45% humid, 180 trans, 68*, 18/18 tires
0.003, 1.43, 6.620, 101.35, 170 trans

5/6/09
-0.007, 1.48, 6.77, 98.72, New Gears, 5.18s, 80*, 80-90% humidity
0.065, 1.50, 6.812, 98.37, 17.5/17 tires, 170 trans
0.078, 1.49, 6.808, 98.53, 17/17, 170
0.034, 1.48, 6.765, 98.77, 180 trans
0.059, 1.49, 6.789, 98.46, 14.5/14.5 tires
0.048, 1.46, 6.741, 98.85, 14/14, 180 trans, 90% humidity

*I went back out the next night since the humidity was so bad but it ran the same high numbers. The tuning also needs a little work but I lost 2/10ths from raising gears!
At the time of this post, quite possibly the trans was on the way out but going from a 3.xx 1st gear to something much longer will make that car go backwards.
Old 05-14-2009, 11:04 AM
  #25  
Launching!
iTrader: (5)
 
tomcowle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Geneva, Ohio
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'd be willing to bet that your "example" didn't change convertor to better utilize that rear gear, that and the "example" has way too much overall first gear ratio, hence the 60's all over the place.
Old 05-14-2009, 11:25 AM
  #26  
10 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
fasttagurl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arlington, Texas (Dallas Area)
Posts: 805
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

The 4L trans could not hold up to the 5.13 gears - that's when the issues all started. Plus, that's too much gear for the set-up I have. It may have benefited with some 30" tires but I'd rather keep costs down and stay with 28's for now. With all my figures added up a PG conversion would cost me around $2800 right now. And, coming from some very reliable sources, I would be disappointed with the results.
Old 05-14-2009, 11:38 AM
  #27  
7 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
 
Villain281H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Gainesville, Florida # of drag strips runs: ?!?!?
Posts: 8,834
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Originally Posted by tomcowle
At his weight and power your average "bracket glide" will be fine, no need for anything exotic.
If your definition of "nothing exotic" is a factory GM glide gearset, I'd strongly disagree. I've seen plenty of them not last a full season in cars at or below 3100 pounds that are 10-11 second cars. Granted they were using a transbrake, but if you're going to do the swap, why not do it right the first time? Hey, just my opinion.

Derek
Old 05-14-2009, 12:00 PM
  #28  
TECH Addict
iTrader: (8)
 
GIZMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Shelby, NC
Posts: 2,780
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by tomcowle
What does the 60' have to do with the desired ET?
I would suggest that all increments are important.


Thats great, have him buy my proflite and he'll pick up more!! or try my Rossler metric 200.
I have zero Proflite experience, but I do have a Rossler 200. Probably the worst 200 that I have owned. It was pretty fast for about 15 passes!


We've ran/run SuperStock, Stock and currently Comp, I understand the importance of gearing/ratios and convertor selection I'm just not seeing why someone wouldn't select a faster option even at the cost of the 60' especially with the smaller tire.

Racing the classes that you have you should already know how expensive any "fast" transmission is.
Old 05-14-2009, 12:04 PM
  #29  
Launching!
iTrader: (5)
 
tomcowle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Geneva, Ohio
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

They need a new glide builder, if they cannot make a glide last in a 10-11 second car a few years they have a problem.
Old 05-14-2009, 12:50 PM
  #30  
Internet Mechanic
iTrader: (17)
 
BlackScreaminMachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallingford CT
Posts: 9,831
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by tomcowle
I'd be willing to bet that your "example" didn't change convertor to better utilize that rear gear, that and the "example" has way too much overall first gear ratio, hence the 60's all over the place.
Regardless... how you see it i.e. "Example" The car needs to leave hard, maybe the 1st gear over all ratio is too stout, there was some other things that could be done. I have seen the list and Michelle and I discussed a few things but again.

Keeping the car running the same range (ET wise) but keeping it reliable and w/o having an major investment was all the major sticking points.

Actually having more gears is better. The PG benefits from having less moving parts and being smaller and lighter, there is no doubt but there is not power adder behind this or bigger then stock cubes so there is no need to calm the launch down, she isnt going on the bumper and to be competitive she needs to be 1.40's and if she can 1.3x Ultimately more gears allow for the engine to stay with in it's power band and the rpm drop wont be as severe. Especially since the race is half the distance.

I am no expert but I have experience and I see a PG as going backwards, or basically more money to get a similar result of a Th350.
Old 05-14-2009, 05:45 PM
  #31  
7 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
 
Villain281H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Gainesville, Florida # of drag strips runs: ?!?!?
Posts: 8,834
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Originally Posted by tomcowle
They need a new glide builder, if they cannot make a glide last in a 10-11 second car a few years they have a problem.
I guess we'll agree to disagree, but think about this: what were these transmissions originally designed to hold for power? 350-400 horsepower. Now think about how old some of those factory gearsets/planetaries/etc are. I'm not saying you MUST do this to avoid problems, but a 6.60 1/8-mile car should be making 500 hp without a problem IMHO. Add in the brutality of a brake and there could be a problem.

Derek
Old 05-14-2009, 06:23 PM
  #32  
Internet Mechanic
iTrader: (17)
 
BlackScreaminMachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallingford CT
Posts: 9,831
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Villain281H
I guess we'll agree to disagree, but think about this: what were these transmissions originally designed to hold for power? 350-400 horsepower.
Derek
Agreed on the power, I have at home an original 68 Camaro RS, 327 backed by a 2 speed PG. This car is a turd as far as power getting to the floor. 2nd gear let go not to long ago.....
Old 05-14-2009, 11:59 PM
  #33  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
 
silverz28camaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: st.louis
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I went to the track with my 4l60e, 3600 converter 3.73 gear 3250 race weight 403 rwhp and accidentally launched in second, went 11.22 @ 122 1.64 60', next pass was in first gear and went 10.93 @ 123.3 1.517 60'. But with a glide you lose less hp and its lighter, so if i had one i bet my times would be close to the 10.93 run, but maybe with a little more mph.
Old 05-15-2009, 08:18 AM
  #34  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
gator's 99TA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 9,971
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by silverz28camaro
I went to the track with my 4l60e, 3600 converter 3.73 gear 3250 race weight 403 rwhp and accidentally launched in second, went 11.22 @ 122 1.64 60', next pass was in first gear and went 10.93 @ 123.3 1.517 60'. But with a glide you lose less hp and its lighter, so if i had one i bet my times would be close to the 10.93 run, but maybe with a little more mph.
again its been preached over and over, with the RIGHT converter and a decent amount of power, overall gearing is overrated (to a degree).
Old 05-16-2009, 12:09 PM
  #35  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
 
silverz28camaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: st.louis
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

if i had a glide i would keep my 3.73 gears but go 4,000 or maybe even 4,400 on the stall if the car was at 3100 lbs.

Gearing 4.30 and deeper if for 3600+ cars or trucks
Old 05-16-2009, 12:43 PM
  #36  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (23)
 
dlove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 1,449
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Originally Posted by silverz28camaro
if i had a glide i would keep my 3.73 gears but go 4,000 or maybe even 4,400 on the stall if the car was at 3100 lbs.

Gearing 4.30 and deeper if for 3600+ cars or trucks
going to want bigger than that. I wonder if my 5000 is to small sometimes.
Old 05-17-2009, 03:38 PM
  #37  
Race your car!
iTrader: (50)
 
JL ws-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 15,420
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes on 18 Posts

Default

Glide, and leave the 4.56 in to start, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the car like a 4.88 or like a 5.08 gear, somewhere in that area.


The alcohol deal, you're gonna be changing the oil a TON more, but for a bracket car that's raced at a competitive level if you can run it I would absolutely go alky.

fuel injection and alky is a pita, talk to kurt urban about it. You'll need probably 16 injectors even with a stock ci motor, ron's flying terlet, if you can run that and it's o.k. that's a very nice setup and works very well. A simple carb conversion, with a good alky carb, get a distributor front cover and go to a digital 7 box would be a great way too go as well. I considered that route myself before I found out one series I want to be able to run requires EFI. I haven't checked on the ron's flying terlet yet with them, but I'm sure they won't like it.



Quick Reply: Opinions: Powerglide vs 4L60E/Leaded Fuel vs Alcohol



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.