Suspension Unloading At Launch..? (Vids)
09-18-2009, 03:04 PM
#42
I guess I'll find out tonight if the t/a adjustments do any good or not. Going to try lowering the tire pressure in increments also.
Mike
09-18-2009, 04:56 PM
#45
Ride height dont mean **** as far as making a car hook, you need no more than 1/2 to 3/4 of rake front to rear. And LCA brackets on the car, with the LCA running uphill from the rear to the car.
My car is on the ground and pulls low 1.40's on the motor. Footbraking with a converter thats too tight.
You need some shocks on the car, some double adjustables on the rear and at least some single adjustables on the front.
When my car does that I tighten up the fronts to slow the rise down and it works the tire harder.
Set the rears full stiff on compression, mid way on extension.
Put the fronts mid way to start.
My car is on the ground and pulls low 1.40's on the motor. Footbraking with a converter thats too tight.
You need some shocks on the car, some double adjustables on the rear and at least some single adjustables on the front.
When my car does that I tighten up the fronts to slow the rise down and it works the tire harder.
Set the rears full stiff on compression, mid way on extension.
Put the fronts mid way to start.
09-19-2009, 01:09 PM
#47
Well I went to the track last night and learned a ton. I had my friend Cody (long time racer) go with me and gave me some good pointers for doing the burnout and also helped line me up in some good spots on the starting line.
Anyway, made some improvements, but not huge improvements. I think the biggest improvement I could see from the video is that the tires aren'te being hit nearly as violently as they were before, so changing the IC definitely helped in some regard. I'll try posting up the vids in a day or two.
Got a new best 60' time of 1.68 which was an aborted run after missing 3rd gear, and then the car ran a best of 11.25 with a 1.71 60'. Again, not huge gains but please remember there is NO TRACK PREP. No VHT is being put down at all. To add insult to injury, they scraped the track earlier in the week so there were bald spots all over.
After all this, I'm now 100% sure that a front drag shock is the answer to getting the car to hook any better than it is now. Even with good track preparation, I don't think the car would hook a whole lot better without the front drag shocks.
Thanks for all the suggestions and help, I appreciate it.
Mike
Anyway, made some improvements, but not huge improvements. I think the biggest improvement I could see from the video is that the tires aren'te being hit nearly as violently as they were before, so changing the IC definitely helped in some regard. I'll try posting up the vids in a day or two.
Got a new best 60' time of 1.68 which was an aborted run after missing 3rd gear, and then the car ran a best of 11.25 with a 1.71 60'. Again, not huge gains but please remember there is NO TRACK PREP. No VHT is being put down at all. To add insult to injury, they scraped the track earlier in the week so there were bald spots all over.
After all this, I'm now 100% sure that a front drag shock is the answer to getting the car to hook any better than it is now. Even with good track preparation, I don't think the car would hook a whole lot better without the front drag shocks.
Thanks for all the suggestions and help, I appreciate it.
Mike
09-19-2009, 02:22 PM
#48
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Nice mike glad your figuring it out, and your right the drag shocks will make a world of difference...there is an article floating around about putting qa1's on a car and the difference it made was pretty nuts....
Chad
Chad
09-20-2009, 01:34 PM
#51
imo you're problem is weight transfer. you just aren't getting any. you aren't getting too much, if any squat in the rear, which is a good thing. but your rear is loading, then unloading, then loading again. I would def. opt for a better shock/spring in the front as a starting point. I'm a junkyard/budget man myself, and would first try out a set of v-6 springs/shocks in the front (preferably from a 3.4L, they have the lowest spring rate). That would help A LOT. You can get a set dirt cheap from a junkyard or a pull a part, seeing how they don't take too long to pull off.
If you want to shell out some change, get a set of qa1 12 way adjustables with whatever spring to your liking/application. I would highly suggest AGAINST getting the 24 way adjustables. 24 ways just have way too many combinations to get it dialed in, and if you aren't very suspension competant, you have a better chance of dialing it worse than you could with a set of 12 ways.
Tire pressure is fine. I wouldn't drop it. Your suspicions of wanting to lower your tire pressure because it's spinning is just because your rear end is becoming unloaded and isn't applying all the initial weight from when you first leave the line. Dropping your tire pressure will just make you bog off the line really bad and lower et a good bit and your lower your mph even more. A good rule of thumb that i've always used is that in bias plies, you want to run the most PSI possible, without spinning.
You definetly need to launch higher than 4000 rpms too imho. Launching higher will help "carry" your car through the 60'. You are dropping way too low below your powerband out of the hole, giving you less weight transfer. Especially with those 3.89's. I wouldn't even dream of trying to put a taller tire on your car with those gears. If traction becomes an issue, I would opt for a 26x11.5x15, before stepping up to a 27 or 28" tall tire. You need as much gear as you can get with a manual and 3.89's.
Your car seems to be launching fairly straight, so I wouldn't say a drag bar is NEEDED. It will most certainly help. the drag bar will help preload the suspension and take some of that initial hit off. Since launching straight isn't your problem, but preloading is, I wouldn't even bother trying to use the common practice of band-aid-ing it with a drag bag.
I would try replacing the shocks in the front, try a bit of a bigger burnout (didn't seem like you heated them enough in the videos), maintain the same psi in the tires, and launch @ around 5000 rpms.
If you want to shell out some change, get a set of qa1 12 way adjustables with whatever spring to your liking/application. I would highly suggest AGAINST getting the 24 way adjustables. 24 ways just have way too many combinations to get it dialed in, and if you aren't very suspension competant, you have a better chance of dialing it worse than you could with a set of 12 ways.
Tire pressure is fine. I wouldn't drop it. Your suspicions of wanting to lower your tire pressure because it's spinning is just because your rear end is becoming unloaded and isn't applying all the initial weight from when you first leave the line. Dropping your tire pressure will just make you bog off the line really bad and lower et a good bit and your lower your mph even more. A good rule of thumb that i've always used is that in bias plies, you want to run the most PSI possible, without spinning.
You definetly need to launch higher than 4000 rpms too imho. Launching higher will help "carry" your car through the 60'. You are dropping way too low below your powerband out of the hole, giving you less weight transfer. Especially with those 3.89's. I wouldn't even dream of trying to put a taller tire on your car with those gears. If traction becomes an issue, I would opt for a 26x11.5x15, before stepping up to a 27 or 28" tall tire. You need as much gear as you can get with a manual and 3.89's.
Your car seems to be launching fairly straight, so I wouldn't say a drag bar is NEEDED. It will most certainly help. the drag bar will help preload the suspension and take some of that initial hit off. Since launching straight isn't your problem, but preloading is, I wouldn't even bother trying to use the common practice of band-aid-ing it with a drag bag.
I would try replacing the shocks in the front, try a bit of a bigger burnout (didn't seem like you heated them enough in the videos), maintain the same psi in the tires, and launch @ around 5000 rpms.
09-20-2009, 01:45 PM
#52
slow cars can't lift tires 
seriously though... your front end is just waayy too heavy (you have a iron block don't you?). and 60' times and power have NOTHING to do with lifting tire(s). Look at my old setup against Tim's old setup. I had a 224 cam only and could cut something as bad as a 1.7 60' and still lift both tires. and tim with the trex'ed h/c car would cut 1.5's and he couldn't. Lifting tires is about getting your suspension to work, weight transfer, not having a fat *** car, etc.
Anyways.. the front of your car is too fat... because I'm assuming you have stock wheels on the front and because of the iron block. That's for starters. What's your pinion angle? The greater it is, the harder it pushes the rear end down. Also knowing whether or not you have a full length or short torque arm will help. lol.
and your rear shocks are plenty good enough. hell if you don't like them, I will straight up trade you my lakewood 50/50's for yours
, and I've pulled the wheels countless times on mine.
seriously though... your front end is just waayy too heavy (you have a iron block don't you?). and 60' times and power have NOTHING to do with lifting tire(s). Look at my old setup against Tim's old setup. I had a 224 cam only and could cut something as bad as a 1.7 60' and still lift both tires. and tim with the trex'ed h/c car would cut 1.5's and he couldn't. Lifting tires is about getting your suspension to work, weight transfer, not having a fat *** car, etc.
Anyways.. the front of your car is too fat... because I'm assuming you have stock wheels on the front and because of the iron block. That's for starters. What's your pinion angle? The greater it is, the harder it pushes the rear end down. Also knowing whether or not you have a full length or short torque arm will help. lol.
and your rear shocks are plenty good enough. hell if you don't like them, I will straight up trade you my lakewood 50/50's for yours
, and I've pulled the wheels countless times on mine.
09-20-2009, 04:38 PM
#53
slow cars can't lift tires
seriously though... your front end is just waayy too heavy (you have a iron block don't you?). and 60' times and power have NOTHING to do with lifting tire(s). Look at my old setup against Tim's old setup. I had a 224 cam only and could cut something as bad as a 1.7 60' and still lift both tires. and tim with the trex'ed h/c car would cut 1.5's and he couldn't. Lifting tires is about getting your suspension to work, weight transfer, not having a fat *** car, etc.
Anyways.. the front of your car is too fat... because I'm assuming you have stock wheels on the front and because of the iron block. That's for starters. What's your pinion angle? The greater it is, the harder it pushes the rear end down. Also knowing whether or not you have a full length or short torque arm will help. lol.
and your rear shocks are plenty good enough. hell if you don't like them, I will straight up trade you my lakewood 50/50's for yours, and I've pulled the wheels countless times on mine.
seriously though... your front end is just waayy too heavy (you have a iron block don't you?). and 60' times and power have NOTHING to do with lifting tire(s). Look at my old setup against Tim's old setup. I had a 224 cam only and could cut something as bad as a 1.7 60' and still lift both tires. and tim with the trex'ed h/c car would cut 1.5's and he couldn't. Lifting tires is about getting your suspension to work, weight transfer, not having a fat *** car, etc.
Anyways.. the front of your car is too fat... because I'm assuming you have stock wheels on the front and because of the iron block. That's for starters. What's your pinion angle? The greater it is, the harder it pushes the rear end down. Also knowing whether or not you have a full length or short torque arm will help. lol.
and your rear shocks are plenty good enough. hell if you don't like them, I will straight up trade you my lakewood 50/50's for yours
, and I've pulled the wheels countless times on mine.
Block is aluminum..
Last two times I went to the track I had stock 16s on the front.
Don't know what my pinion angle is.. Don't know ANYTHING about suspension.. I'm going to read up a little bit tonight on it though..
I think I will keep my rear shocks..
09-20-2009, 09:34 PM
#54
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if you car is lowered much at all look at the back of the trans tunnel where the TA bolts to the rear and make sure its not binding and hitting the tunnel and causing your car to act like it is...
09-20-2009, 09:59 PM
#55
if the car came with 17's and is lowered check the bumpstops.
I had to remove the extenders on mine to get the car to hook before I figured out i needed front shocks.
I used to run the rear really soft to compensate for the front but it would bounce off the bumpstop and blow the tires off
I had to remove the extenders on mine to get the car to hook before I figured out i needed front shocks.
I used to run the rear really soft to compensate for the front but it would bounce off the bumpstop and blow the tires off
09-22-2009, 01:44 PM
#56
If you want to shell out some change, get a set of qa1 12 way adjustables with whatever spring to your liking/application. I would highly suggest AGAINST getting the 24 way adjustables. 24 ways just have way too many combinations to get it dialed in, and if you aren't very suspension competant, you have a better chance of dialing it worse than you could with a set of 12 ways.
Tire pressure is fine. I wouldn't drop it. Your suspicions of wanting to lower your tire pressure because it's spinning is just because your rear end is becoming unloaded and isn't applying all the initial weight from when you first leave the line. Dropping your tire pressure will just make you bog off the line really bad and lower et a good bit and your lower your mph even more. A good rule of thumb that i've always used is that in bias plies, you want to run the most PSI possible, without spinning.
You definetly need to launch higher than 4000 rpms too imho. Launching higher will help "carry" your car through the 60'. You are dropping way too low below your powerband out of the hole, giving you less weight transfer. Especially with those 3.89's. I wouldn't even dream of trying to put a taller tire on your car with those gears. If traction becomes an issue, I would opt for a 26x11.5x15, before stepping up to a 27 or 28" tall tire. You need as much gear as you can get with a manual and 3.89's.
I wish I could go with higher gears, but the 3.89's are just about perfect as far as rpm's through the traps. I'm just about bumping the rev limiter through the traps with the 3.89's. Your car seems to be launching fairly straight, so I wouldn't say a drag bar is NEEDED. It will most certainly help. the drag bar will help preload the suspension and take some of that initial hit off. Since launching straight isn't your problem, but preloading is, I wouldn't even bother trying to use the common practice of band-aid-ing it with a drag bag.
I would try replacing the shocks in the front, try a bit of a bigger burnout (didn't seem like you heated them enough in the videos), maintain the same psi in the tires, and launch @ around 5000 rpms.
I would try replacing the shocks in the front, try a bit of a bigger burnout (didn't seem like you heated them enough in the videos), maintain the same psi in the tires, and launch @ around 5000 rpms.
Mike
09-22-2009, 01:47 PM
#57
if the car came with 17's and is lowered check the bumpstops.
I had to remove the extenders on mine to get the car to hook before I figured out i needed front shocks.
I used to run the rear really soft to compensate for the front but it would bounce off the bumpstop and blow the tires off
I had to remove the extenders on mine to get the car to hook before I figured out i needed front shocks.
I used to run the rear really soft to compensate for the front but it would bounce off the bumpstop and blow the tires off
Strange front single adjustables on the way.....
Mike
09-27-2009, 01:20 PM
#60
Update:
I got the Strange single adj front shocks installed and they are most definitely helping. I ran a new personal best et and mph last night. I'm not just knocking on the door of the 10's, I'm banging on the f*(ker.
60' - 1.66
1/8 et - 7.111
1/8 mph - 99.22
1/4 et 11.03
1/4 mph 125.55
Also backed it up with an 11.09 @ 124.98.
The car seemed to like setting 3 on the front shocks (1 being lightest, 10 being stiffest). I'm going to try resetting the front of the torque arm back down one hole the next time I head out and see if the rear suspension will stay loaded now with the new front shocks. Our video camera freaked out so I didn't get this run on video, but I should have the 11.09 run uploaded in a day or so.
Mike
I got the Strange single adj front shocks installed and they are most definitely helping. I ran a new personal best et and mph last night. I'm not just knocking on the door of the 10's, I'm banging on the f*(ker.
60' - 1.66
1/8 et - 7.111
1/8 mph - 99.22
1/4 et 11.03
1/4 mph 125.55
Also backed it up with an 11.09 @ 124.98.
The car seemed to like setting 3 on the front shocks (1 being lightest, 10 being stiffest). I'm going to try resetting the front of the torque arm back down one hole the next time I head out and see if the rear suspension will stay loaded now with the new front shocks. Our video camera freaked out so I didn't get this run on video, but I should have the 11.09 run uploaded in a day or so.
Mike