Should I switch to a TH400?
10-14-2009, 08:32 PM
#61
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2nd pass video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD8NfvA9TK0
no burnout vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SdknceJCSg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD8NfvA9TK0
no burnout vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SdknceJCSg
10-14-2009, 08:39 PM
#62
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just to show you how rich it got when it got cold, i backfired a few times off the line on my last run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNBOh7WJBPc
I know it's dumping fuel when it's on the 2 step, but that's the first backfire off the line
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNBOh7WJBPc
I know it's dumping fuel when it's on the 2 step, but that's the first backfire off the line
10-14-2009, 09:08 PM
#63
My combo peaks around 64-6500, I shift at 7200.
Always want to shift past peak for the most out of a combo, should you shift at 7200, probably not (i have rodbolts), but definately 6600-6800 easy. And launch HIGHER!!! Also, check out the tire prolem, its under geared.
10-14-2009, 09:25 PM
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the cam kept making power past 6500 rpms, but the tuner said there was no point in going much past 6700 because the valves start floating in there.
What gearing should I go with? Since I have the 28" tall tires (which someone recommended for a stick car) also, adding the nitrous would determine gear ratio also, correct?
What gearing should I go with? Since I have the 28" tall tires (which someone recommended for a stick car) also, adding the nitrous would determine gear ratio also, correct?
10-14-2009, 09:37 PM
#66
the cam kept making power past 6500 rpms, but the tuner said there was no point in going much past 6700 because the valves start floating in there.
What gearing should I go with? Since I have the 28" tall tires (which someone recommended for a stick car) also, adding the nitrous would determine gear ratio also, correct?
What gearing should I go with? Since I have the 28" tall tires (which someone recommended for a stick car) also, adding the nitrous would determine gear ratio also, correct?
probably 4.56's n/a or 4.11's sprayed.
10-14-2009, 09:40 PM
#67
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they are Patriot gold - double behive (something like that) - that I got with my MS3 from texas speed
he didn't see float, just was warning.
Maybe i'm thinking he said the lifters start floating - i should probably retract the valve statement
he didn't see float, just was warning.
Maybe i'm thinking he said the lifters start floating - i should probably retract the valve statement
10-14-2009, 09:49 PM
#68
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Well again, you are making power (MPH), just not teh ET you need for your MPH.
So, nothing wrong with motor, just need to get the car moving..
Customers car (taking back to track this Friday) but @ 3 weeks ago, he let me drive it...100% street car, full weight Formula, 3520 Lbs with me in it (I go 225), dynoed 39x. On STREET tires, not drag radialsjust regular old 17" street tires, I went 12.90 @ 112 (might have been 111, but think it was 112)
Car has got full UMI treatment (TG Arm, control arms, etc..). Best 60' was a 1.9x (again, can't remember exactly), but again, on street tires. With more practice, and getting used to THAT car, I could have got it into teh 1.80's, again, on street tires.
So, you trapping 112 or so @ 3600 Lbs is about right, jsut need to get teh ET to match.
Since the car is bogging, you have too much tire/not enough gear/not enough launch RPM. A gear is cheaper, AND I like tall tires (like your 28"), so I would swap out gear sets. But, if you ahve a friend that has a set of 26's ou can borrow or you have, throw em on, and see whats up.You should be able to get it into the 12.20's-12.30's or so for 112 MPH trap speed @ 3600lbs
So, nothing wrong with motor, just need to get the car moving..
Customers car (taking back to track this Friday) but @ 3 weeks ago, he let me drive it...100% street car, full weight Formula, 3520 Lbs with me in it (I go 225), dynoed 39x. On STREET tires, not drag radialsjust regular old 17" street tires, I went 12.90 @ 112 (might have been 111, but think it was 112)
Car has got full UMI treatment (TG Arm, control arms, etc..). Best 60' was a 1.9x (again, can't remember exactly), but again, on street tires. With more practice, and getting used to THAT car, I could have got it into teh 1.80's, again, on street tires.
So, you trapping 112 or so @ 3600 Lbs is about right, jsut need to get teh ET to match.
Since the car is bogging, you have too much tire/not enough gear/not enough launch RPM. A gear is cheaper, AND I like tall tires (like your 28"), so I would swap out gear sets. But, if you ahve a friend that has a set of 26's ou can borrow or you have, throw em on, and see whats up.You should be able to get it into the 12.20's-12.30's or so for 112 MPH trap speed @ 3600lbs
10-14-2009, 09:53 PM
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I'll have to call my speed shop, see what a set of gears would cost for my Currie 9" - detroit locker...
4.11's seem to be the good bet for future use as well? That should get me moving off the line fine?
i.e. - I don't want to get 4.11's and go "damn, i should have got 4.___ instead!"
4.11's seem to be the good bet for future use as well? That should get me moving off the line fine?
i.e. - I don't want to get 4.11's and go "damn, i should have got 4.___ instead!"
10-15-2009, 05:38 AM
#70
You put a TH400 in the car and leave off a transbrake at WOT, and have the nitrous come on at the release of the brake and you won't need to change the gears I bet... you'll have more gear then you NEED, but you'll be able to drive it on the street better how it is then how it would be with the optimal track gear.
And just add another 50 hp of jet, trust me it will like the gearing where it is.
And just add another 50 hp of jet, trust me it will like the gearing where it is.
10-15-2009, 07:48 AM
#71
My thoughts here are that switching to an automatic isn't going to solve the issues I'm seeing.
The first issue is that if you're not sure if the car is running right GET IT CHECKED!!! If your tune is that far off then not only would it be hurting your et's but maybe hurting the motor.
Shifting at 6000 rpm with a sloppy cam that makes all it's power over that point is absolutely killing you. You may be making 400rwhp on the dyno at 6500 rpm but I bet at 6000 rpm you're probably only making around 385. Shifting at 6000 is dropping you so low into the rpm band that you're probably only making 350 - 360 when you hit the next gear. An automatic won't solve this if you still only shift it at 6000. If they dyno didn't show symptoms of valve float or any other valvetrain issue then I wouldn't worry about spinning it to 6500 or so for the sake of the valvetrain, you'll have to make your own decision about your confidence in the rod bolts at that point. FWIW a properly setup valvetrain with stock lifters and rockers can be stable well over 7000 rpm.
There's a lot of et and mph right there in those 2 issues, should be an easy .4 -.6 and 4 to 6 mph.
Now we can knitpick a little bit. Your shifting isn't terrible from what I could hear in those 2 videos so I wouldn't give up on the 6 speed just yet. I agree that your tire/gear combination is wrong. You essentially have the tire/gear ratio of what you had stock with the stock tires and 3.42's. In order to figure out the proper combination you'll need to determine what your highest mph is going to be after you get things sorted out so if you're bent on nitrous you gotta take that into account. I'd worry about that after you get the other issues sorted out. Hell you can leave off idle right now just to see if the mph comes back then worry about the 60 ft. Assuming about a 1500 DA with the power and weight you say the car has I figure it should trap 116 - 118 with decent driving. Don't give up on the 6 speed yet and let us know how you make out.
The first issue is that if you're not sure if the car is running right GET IT CHECKED!!! If your tune is that far off then not only would it be hurting your et's but maybe hurting the motor.
Shifting at 6000 rpm with a sloppy cam that makes all it's power over that point is absolutely killing you. You may be making 400rwhp on the dyno at 6500 rpm but I bet at 6000 rpm you're probably only making around 385. Shifting at 6000 is dropping you so low into the rpm band that you're probably only making 350 - 360 when you hit the next gear. An automatic won't solve this if you still only shift it at 6000. If they dyno didn't show symptoms of valve float or any other valvetrain issue then I wouldn't worry about spinning it to 6500 or so for the sake of the valvetrain, you'll have to make your own decision about your confidence in the rod bolts at that point. FWIW a properly setup valvetrain with stock lifters and rockers can be stable well over 7000 rpm.
There's a lot of et and mph right there in those 2 issues, should be an easy .4 -.6 and 4 to 6 mph.
Now we can knitpick a little bit. Your shifting isn't terrible from what I could hear in those 2 videos so I wouldn't give up on the 6 speed just yet. I agree that your tire/gear combination is wrong. You essentially have the tire/gear ratio of what you had stock with the stock tires and 3.42's. In order to figure out the proper combination you'll need to determine what your highest mph is going to be after you get things sorted out so if you're bent on nitrous you gotta take that into account. I'd worry about that after you get the other issues sorted out. Hell you can leave off idle right now just to see if the mph comes back then worry about the 60 ft. Assuming about a 1500 DA with the power and weight you say the car has I figure it should trap 116 - 118 with decent driving. Don't give up on the 6 speed yet and let us know how you make out.
10-15-2009, 09:28 AM
#73
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First off you have to decide, T56 or TH400. It's a waste of time to discuss both.
If you go TH400, you have to set a goal. Is it high 10's on a 150 shot? That's pretty easy for your setup. I'd keep the 3.90 if you are shifting at 6000. Valve float is more a result of having the wrong valve spring setup. I shifted the white car at 7000, it was a 348 cid, 11:1, 240/244//112 cam, and it made 415rwhp thru a 8" converter on a dynojet. Best mph for me was 123, best mph with a better intake was 126 with the new owner. 150 shot mph was always 133-134. Shifted that at 7000 too.
In your vid #2 the car noses over. Not sure your suspension but I ran QA1 R's up front, and cheap CE's in the back on the 50/50 setting. Stock shocks are 50/50 in back fwiw. Sometimes it's nice to take the rears down to 4/4 if the track is junk.
If you go TH400, you have to set a goal. Is it high 10's on a 150 shot? That's pretty easy for your setup. I'd keep the 3.90 if you are shifting at 6000. Valve float is more a result of having the wrong valve spring setup. I shifted the white car at 7000, it was a 348 cid, 11:1, 240/244//112 cam, and it made 415rwhp thru a 8" converter on a dynojet. Best mph for me was 123, best mph with a better intake was 126 with the new owner. 150 shot mph was always 133-134. Shifted that at 7000 too.
In your vid #2 the car noses over. Not sure your suspension but I ran QA1 R's up front, and cheap CE's in the back on the 50/50 setting. Stock shocks are 50/50 in back fwiw. Sometimes it's nice to take the rears down to 4/4 if the track is junk.
10-15-2009, 11:31 AM
#74
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My thoughts here are that switching to an automatic isn't going to solve the issues I'm seeing.
The first issue is that if you're not sure if the car is running right GET IT CHECKED!!! If your tune is that far off then not only would it be hurting your et's but maybe hurting the motor.
Shifting at 6000 rpm with a sloppy cam that makes all it's power over that point is absolutely killing you. You may be making 400rwhp on the dyno at 6500 rpm but I bet at 6000 rpm you're probably only making around 385. Shifting at 6000 is dropping you so low into the rpm band that you're probably only making 350 - 360 when you hit the next gear. An automatic won't solve this if you still only shift it at 6000. If they dyno didn't show symptoms of valve float or any other valvetrain issue then I wouldn't worry about spinning it to 6500 or so for the sake of the valvetrain, you'll have to make your own decision about your confidence in the rod bolts at that point. FWIW a properly setup valvetrain with stock lifters and rockers can be stable well over 7000 rpm.
There's a lot of et and mph right there in those 2 issues, should be an easy .4 -.6 and 4 to 6 mph.
Now we can knitpick a little bit. Your shifting isn't terrible from what I could hear in those 2 videos so I wouldn't give up on the 6 speed just yet. I agree that your tire/gear combination is wrong. You essentially have the tire/gear ratio of what you had stock with the stock tires and 3.42's. In order to figure out the proper combination you'll need to determine what your highest mph is going to be after you get things sorted out so if you're bent on nitrous you gotta take that into account. I'd worry about that after you get the other issues sorted out. Hell you can leave off idle right now just to see if the mph comes back then worry about the 60 ft. Assuming about a 1500 DA with the power and weight you say the car has I figure it should trap 116 - 118 with decent driving. Don't give up on the 6 speed yet and let us know how you make out.
The first issue is that if you're not sure if the car is running right GET IT CHECKED!!! If your tune is that far off then not only would it be hurting your et's but maybe hurting the motor.
Shifting at 6000 rpm with a sloppy cam that makes all it's power over that point is absolutely killing you. You may be making 400rwhp on the dyno at 6500 rpm but I bet at 6000 rpm you're probably only making around 385. Shifting at 6000 is dropping you so low into the rpm band that you're probably only making 350 - 360 when you hit the next gear. An automatic won't solve this if you still only shift it at 6000. If they dyno didn't show symptoms of valve float or any other valvetrain issue then I wouldn't worry about spinning it to 6500 or so for the sake of the valvetrain, you'll have to make your own decision about your confidence in the rod bolts at that point. FWIW a properly setup valvetrain with stock lifters and rockers can be stable well over 7000 rpm.
There's a lot of et and mph right there in those 2 issues, should be an easy .4 -.6 and 4 to 6 mph.
Now we can knitpick a little bit. Your shifting isn't terrible from what I could hear in those 2 videos so I wouldn't give up on the 6 speed just yet. I agree that your tire/gear combination is wrong. You essentially have the tire/gear ratio of what you had stock with the stock tires and 3.42's. In order to figure out the proper combination you'll need to determine what your highest mph is going to be after you get things sorted out so if you're bent on nitrous you gotta take that into account. I'd worry about that after you get the other issues sorted out. Hell you can leave off idle right now just to see if the mph comes back then worry about the 60 ft. Assuming about a 1500 DA with the power and weight you say the car has I figure it should trap 116 - 118 with decent driving. Don't give up on the 6 speed yet and let us know how you make out.
At what point do I need to start worrying about the rod bolts? esp. with the spray.
Thanks for the advice and comments. Unfortunately the car is put away for winter (chance of snow tomorrow, already!)
10-15-2009, 11:33 AM
#75
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First off you have to decide, T56 or TH400. It's a waste of time to discuss both.
If you go TH400, you have to set a goal. Is it high 10's on a 150 shot? That's pretty easy for your setup. I'd keep the 3.90 if you are shifting at 6000. Valve float is more a result of having the wrong valve spring setup. I shifted the white car at 7000, it was a 348 cid, 11:1, 240/244//112 cam, and it made 415rwhp thru a 8" converter on a dynojet. Best mph for me was 123, best mph with a better intake was 126 with the new owner. 150 shot mph was always 133-134. Shifted that at 7000 too.
In your vid #2 the car noses over. Not sure your suspension but I ran QA1 R's up front, and cheap CE's in the back on the 50/50 setting. Stock shocks are 50/50 in back fwiw. Sometimes it's nice to take the rears down to 4/4 if the track is junk.
If you go TH400, you have to set a goal. Is it high 10's on a 150 shot? That's pretty easy for your setup. I'd keep the 3.90 if you are shifting at 6000. Valve float is more a result of having the wrong valve spring setup. I shifted the white car at 7000, it was a 348 cid, 11:1, 240/244//112 cam, and it made 415rwhp thru a 8" converter on a dynojet. Best mph for me was 123, best mph with a better intake was 126 with the new owner. 150 shot mph was always 133-134. Shifted that at 7000 too.
In your vid #2 the car noses over. Not sure your suspension but I ran QA1 R's up front, and cheap CE's in the back on the 50/50 setting. Stock shocks are 50/50 in back fwiw. Sometimes it's nice to take the rears down to 4/4 if the track is junk.
I've got QA1 shocks all around - 12 way.
2/3 up front
5/5 in the back
10-15-2009, 11:37 AM
#76
Here's another thought:
Spend the $ on a Th400 swap, sell the T56 and the related parts for probably 2/3 of what a Th400 swap will cost you in total, by the time you are done.... or spend X amount of $ fixing the T56 when it does finally break, then end up spending the $ on a TH400 swap later.....
Spend the $ on a Th400 swap, sell the T56 and the related parts for probably 2/3 of what a Th400 swap will cost you in total, by the time you are done.... or spend X amount of $ fixing the T56 when it does finally break, then end up spending the $ on a TH400 swap later.....
10-15-2009, 11:55 AM
#77
I believe the car is running fine, just was really rich because of the weather. She'll be getting a retune in the spring with the nitrous.
At what point do I need to start worrying about the rod bolts? esp. with the spray.
Thanks for the advice and comments. Unfortunately the car is put away for winter (chance of snow tomorrow, already!)
At what point do I need to start worrying about the rod bolts? esp. with the spray.
Thanks for the advice and comments. Unfortunately the car is put away for winter (chance of snow tomorrow, already!)
You have an 02 so you have the upgraded rod bolts over the pre 01 cars so you shouldn't have any issues shifting at 6500-6600 but there's always the "anything's possible" scenario, however I wouldn't worry a whole lot.
I'd say get your car running right on motor before you worry about the spray.
As for the 6 speed vs. auto question you really have to decide what you want the car to be. If you like cruising the car and shifting and you're only gonna go to the track a few times a year then keep the 6 speed. If you want to run your car a lot at the track, get everything out of it that you can, and be real consistent with it then I'd consider the auto swap.
10-15-2009, 02:07 PM
#78
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I believe the tune to be okay, and it was back into 'learn mode' since the battery puked out on me. I just charged it up for me to go to the track.
This car will be strip only - except for the 2 mile straight shot to the track.
I bought my C6 and that's a ton of fun rowing the gears in.
This car will be strip only - except for the 2 mile straight shot to the track.
I bought my C6 and that's a ton of fun rowing the gears in.
10-15-2009, 02:11 PM
#79
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Here's another thought:
Spend the $ on a Th400 swap, sell the T56 and the related parts for probably 2/3 of what a Th400 swap will cost you in total, by the time you are done.... or spend X amount of $ fixing the T56 when it does finally break, then end up spending the $ on a TH400 swap later.....
Spend the $ on a Th400 swap, sell the T56 and the related parts for probably 2/3 of what a Th400 swap will cost you in total, by the time you are done.... or spend X amount of $ fixing the T56 when it does finally break, then end up spending the $ on a TH400 swap later.....
I just need to get my auto guy to call me back