double adjustable shock question.
double adjustable shock question. ok i just purchased some strange 12 way adjustable shocks with 315lb springs for the front of my car (in sig). i have a pretty good understanding on single adjust shocks but haven't found out much about the double's. i looked through some stickies but didn't find mush on adjusting shocks. can someone explain to me how double adjust shocks work and what adjustments do what? also whats a good starting point with the adjustments. and when i was looking through some post's from madman and got confused about the springs. what differance in the launch is there between a 300lb and a 315lb spring? my car weighs about 3280lb with out me in it and i weigh 175lbs. thanks
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 29
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From: Foristell, Missouri
. We can split the shocks and springs into two different answers, and generalize a little bit. Springs first. Springs, obviously, hold up the car as a function of their rate and compressed height. The quick answer about the difference in rates and how it affects the launch is this: Consider your launch tries to lift the front end, as it will, we hope. With a 300lb/in spring, this "launch energy" has to remove 300lbs off of the front end to get 1" of front end rise, while with the 315lb spring, it takes more (15lbs at the coil centerline) "launch energy" to get that same 1" front end rise. That's why we put a lower spring rate spring in the front. It makes the front end "sprung weight"easier for our applied energy/force to lift.
Now, the speed of any front suspension movement in either dive or lift (bump or rebound in shock terms) is controlled by the shock, too, besides its basic duty as a damper for suspension harmonics. Your shocks have a great deal of resolution for controlling these speeds. want a faster rise in the front? Crank the shocks full loose on the rebound/extension. This somewhat isolates the weight of the moving suspension components (unsprung weight) from the rest of the front end "load" that your applied energy is trying to lift. Want the car to settle down more slowly at the 60' beam? Crank the shocks tighter on the bump/compression. It's all about control. As much control as you can afford is a good idea. Always. Good luck at the track!
Bob Ette
Now, the speed of any front suspension movement in either dive or lift (bump or rebound in shock terms) is controlled by the shock, too, besides its basic duty as a damper for suspension harmonics. Your shocks have a great deal of resolution for controlling these speeds. want a faster rise in the front? Crank the shocks full loose on the rebound/extension. This somewhat isolates the weight of the moving suspension components (unsprung weight) from the rest of the front end "load" that your applied energy is trying to lift. Want the car to settle down more slowly at the 60' beam? Crank the shocks tighter on the bump/compression. It's all about control. As much control as you can afford is a good idea. Always. Good luck at the track!
Bob Ette
Great answer but I have a question for your answer. Why not go to a 275/250 spring rate to use even less energy getting the car to rise? What would/could the negatives be to too low a spring rate?
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The spring couldn't support the weight of the front end causing your front shock/strut to work harder, wearing it out and possibly damaging it and the car when they bottom out from lack of support from a weak spring.
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Verdad Gallardo Too stiff of a spring (which I think yours is in this case unless you have an iron block) will not let you take advantage of the stored energy in a lighter spring. Post 3 explains it well.
Put simply you want to run as light of a spring as possible to reap the benefits of maximum weight transfer off of the starting line, but heavy enough to support the front end to keep it from crashing back down off of the initial take off.
Put simply you want to run as light of a spring as possible to reap the benefits of maximum weight transfer off of the starting line, but heavy enough to support the front end to keep it from crashing back down off of the initial take off.
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 29
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From: Foristell, Missouri
Down-track stability is another concern. You want your car to settle down and cut through the air well downtrack. You also want it to stay flat, and not "float" with crosswinds and track bumps. With too little spring and the resulting lower wheel rate, you're giving up stability in many aspects you want to control, and invite some dynamics you don't want. Remember those old big cars like Coupe de Villes, Electra 225s? They handled like crap due to ultra low spring rates and soft bump/rebound damping in the shocks, designed to give a pillowy ride.
Remember, too.. the more power you make, the less need for pitch rotation of the chassis. The power will load the tires, and reduce the need for "load transfer" by pitch rotation... now, if it's a ridiculously high wheelie you're wanting....
Balance.
Not a huge wheelstand but I would like to carry a little higher and farther out. Car comes up quick about gatorade bottle height and then immediately right back down and unloads the rear tires. I am in the middle of a lightweight front end setup and battery relocate (winter project) and plan on 120-150 lbs off the nose of the car and not sure if that is enough to try going from a 300# to a 275# spring. I plan on scaling the car ect and would hate to do it all again for a spring change if I would be at a recommended front weight to try a 275# spring.
Very good Info for everybody.
Your problem is a instant center/torque arm problem most likely
Not a huge wheelstand but I would like to carry a little higher and farther out. Car comes up quick about gatorade bottle height and then immediately right back down and unloads the rear tires. I am in the middle of a lightweight front end setup and battery relocate (winter project) and plan on 120-150 lbs off the nose of the car and not sure if that is enough to try going from a 300# to a 275# spring. I plan on scaling the car ect and would hate to do it all again for a spring change if I would be at a recommended front weight to try a 275# spring.
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 29
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From: Foristell, Missouri
It's typical to hit the tires too hard with your power level and a m6... lower the instant center (raise the rear of the LCA), tighten up the shocks, increase the tire pressure, put less gear in it, or REDUCE the amount of front end rise... can you launch with less RPM? One at a time is best. These are just tools, and any combination is possible.
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Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Mooresville, NC
From Madman in one of the stickies:
Zach
When the tq arm is in the lower position it comes up fast and then back down faster and unloads the tire. When it is in the highest position it does not get the front up at all and I lose .10 in 60'