Problems, Are You guys using a different batt. for rear relocation UPDATE!!
Broke EF, RRARON
i was chasing the problem as well, and what i did find was that due to the long length of the cable from front to rear of the vehicle my car would run/charge w/ a voltage of 14-14.3 volts w/ a small autozone cheapo watercraft battery. when i moved the battery to the rear of the vehicle using 0 gauge welding cable and a on/off kill switch it would only run/charge at a voltage of around 13-13.6 volts. I didnt like how it sounded or ran, i ended up sh#t canning the kill switch and cable and left my battery up front. I dont have an exact solution for your guys issues but i would say its either in the kill switch, or cables, or a combo of both. Hope this helps, please report back what you do find.
i was chasing the problem as well, and what i did find was that due to the long length of the cable from front to rear of the vehicle my car would run/charge w/ a voltage of 14-14.3 volts w/ a small autozone cheapo watercraft battery. when i moved the battery to the rear of the vehicle using 0 gauge welding cable and a on/off kill switch it would only run/charge at a voltage of around 13-13.6 volts. I didnt like how it sounded or ran, i ended up sh#t canning the kill switch and cable and left my battery up front. I dont have an exact solution for your guys issues but i would say its either in the kill switch, or cables, or a combo of both. Hope this helps, please report back what you do find.
I battled this same issue for some time and never found out what the problem was. Like mentioned above I even had some new cables made with thick welding cable with crimped and soldered terminals. Paint grounded down on any grounds. Motor grounded up front to the frame rail, battery grounded in the back of the car and even with it's own cable all the way up to the block and still clickity click click click.
At first I didn't mind but after a while it gets embarassing when you are trying to leave a meet and you go to turn your **** on click click click everyone looks your way lol. My boy kept telling me try a battery up front with stock cables and see what happens and I kept telling him no. I finally stopped being hard headed and gave it a try and bam turned right on the first try.
At first I didn't mind but after a while it gets embarassing when you are trying to leave a meet and you go to turn your **** on click click click everyone looks your way lol. My boy kept telling me try a battery up front with stock cables and see what happens and I kept telling him no. I finally stopped being hard headed and gave it a try and bam turned right on the first try.
yup exactly - my car will even start mid winter (20 deg) w/ that little *** battery up front kept on a battery tender. Does anyone know when a kill switch becomes necessary to pass tech, with a battery mounted up front in factory location?
Could you simply have a charging issue? As in the alternator isn't charging the battery once the car actually gets running. A lot of the battery relocation information I've read mentions of the increased strain from the cables on the charging system.
I have a kill switch and a yellow top in the very back with 0/1 welding cable. I have done the exact setup on several cars and none have starting or charging issues. My car charges the same as it did when it had stock cables on it and its a 99 with the original alternator as far as I know with 160+k miles on it. Its really a simple setup to be honest. For those having problems, get a good digital meter start doing some trouble shooting. There are not that many connections to check.
9 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 247
From: IL
9 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 247
From: IL
Broke EF, RRARON
i was chasing the problem as well, and what i did find was that due to the long length of the cable from front to rear of the vehicle my car would run/charge w/ a voltage of 14-14.3 volts w/ a small autozone cheapo watercraft battery. when i moved the battery to the rear of the vehicle using 0 gauge welding cable and a on/off kill switch it would only run/charge at a voltage of around 13-13.6 volts. I didnt like how it sounded or ran, i ended up sh#t canning the kill switch and cable and left my battery up front. I dont have an exact solution for your guys issues but i would say its either in the kill switch, or cables, or a combo of both. Hope this helps, please report back what you do find.
i was chasing the problem as well, and what i did find was that due to the long length of the cable from front to rear of the vehicle my car would run/charge w/ a voltage of 14-14.3 volts w/ a small autozone cheapo watercraft battery. when i moved the battery to the rear of the vehicle using 0 gauge welding cable and a on/off kill switch it would only run/charge at a voltage of around 13-13.6 volts. I didnt like how it sounded or ran, i ended up sh#t canning the kill switch and cable and left my battery up front. I dont have an exact solution for your guys issues but i would say its either in the kill switch, or cables, or a combo of both. Hope this helps, please report back what you do find.
Sean
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Verdad Gallardo broke- what type of battery are you using? the issues i spoke of was directly related to having the small "lightweight" style battery mounted out back, (small batterey, long cables dont mix well) a few years back when the car was still the 396 LT1 car, i had a yellow top out back w/ the same cables and no kill switch and it was perfectly normal. I would be upset as well, it sounds like you guys are covering all the bases checking this thing out.
a few things i would double check if not done so already - make sure the vehicle has a ground from motor mount/k member to frame rail and that its clean and a good connection. i also added a ground cable from my battery to the rear frame rail when it was in the rear.
what size/type cable are you guys running for the length of the vehicle?
a few things i would double check if not done so already - make sure the vehicle has a ground from motor mount/k member to frame rail and that its clean and a good connection. i also added a ground cable from my battery to the rear frame rail when it was in the rear.
what size/type cable are you guys running for the length of the vehicle?
0 ga welding cable on mine, and it never clicked once. A big bolt welded right to the rollbar plate for ground, 0 ga welding cable up to the front into a bulkhead fitting in the hvac delete plate, then a iece of 0ga down to the starter, and a piece of 2ga off to the fuse boxes. NO problems at all.
I also ran a 4 ga wire from the alt, back to the battery directly, that has a 200 amp fuse in it, in the event that it were to short out.
I didn't have any fuse on the welding cable that ran up to the front at all.... that was hard lines right off the battery. I ran the wire in some conv. tubing to protect it... just to be safe.
There's a ground problem man... that's all there is to it I hate to tell ya. I don't know what you did with the negative battery cables up in the front, but you need to ground those to the chassis up in the front somewhere when the battery is in the back, did you do that?
Also.. the problem with the little battery in the front... is that EVERY LITTLE BATTERY SUCKS. Try starting a 13.5 to 1 motor with one of those POS things. Good luck when it's under 60 degrees outside. You'll kill it just cranking it over a couple times... and once it's dead, it's done. they don't recover one bit.... buy another one. I fought with one of those POS things for a whole season.. I won't ever do that again.
I also ran a 4 ga wire from the alt, back to the battery directly, that has a 200 amp fuse in it, in the event that it were to short out.
I didn't have any fuse on the welding cable that ran up to the front at all.... that was hard lines right off the battery. I ran the wire in some conv. tubing to protect it... just to be safe.
There's a ground problem man... that's all there is to it I hate to tell ya. I don't know what you did with the negative battery cables up in the front, but you need to ground those to the chassis up in the front somewhere when the battery is in the back, did you do that?
Also.. the problem with the little battery in the front... is that EVERY LITTLE BATTERY SUCKS. Try starting a 13.5 to 1 motor with one of those POS things. Good luck when it's under 60 degrees outside. You'll kill it just cranking it over a couple times... and once it's dead, it's done. they don't recover one bit.... buy another one. I fought with one of those POS things for a whole season.. I won't ever do that again.
i agree with everything JL said, as the ground seems to be the issue, i'd look into that.
althought i've had great results with the little battery, could just be my luck but i live in chicago and we have some cold winters and it hasnt failed me yet *knock on wood* i think the key is to keep it on a battery tender.
althought i've had great results with the little battery, could just be my luck but i live in chicago and we have some cold winters and it hasnt failed me yet *knock on wood* i think the key is to keep it on a battery tender.
DC systems like common grounds - even though it's grounded to the frame/cage in the back and to the frame in the front, don't automatically assume that the ground is solid. These aren't full chassis cars and who knows how much **** is actually between the 2 points.
9 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: IL
We are using a large autozone battery. I want to say is 875 CCA, or something close. It is bigger than the battery in the truck, I know that. The reason we went to that battery was the Kinetic that we tried was doing the same thing and we assumed it was the battery. The kinetic came out of my cobalt (which had the battery in the back factory), and for a while was my only battery. That car had a decent sized system, and never had a problem. For grounds, lets see...
Battery to metal floor in back
Battery to the front bulkhead
one on each head to chassis
all factory points have been redone in larger wire and tie together to the shock tower
the shock tower ties to main bulkhead
We also have sub frame connectors, a full cage, solid mounts... The chassis is as conductive for a ground as it is ever going to get. So in short we have all of the factory grounds (and have made them all larger cable), additional grounds in the front, additional grounds in the rear, and the front and back grounds are tied together with wire.
We are using all 4ga, but we have two from the battery to the starter. One straight from the alternator to the battery, and then one from the bulkhead to the driver side post. The only possible weak point I can see is maybe the bulkheads, but I kind of doubt it.
Sean
Battery to metal floor in back
Battery to the front bulkhead
one on each head to chassis
all factory points have been redone in larger wire and tie together to the shock tower
the shock tower ties to main bulkhead
We also have sub frame connectors, a full cage, solid mounts... The chassis is as conductive for a ground as it is ever going to get. So in short we have all of the factory grounds (and have made them all larger cable), additional grounds in the front, additional grounds in the rear, and the front and back grounds are tied together with wire.
We are using all 4ga, but we have two from the battery to the starter. One straight from the alternator to the battery, and then one from the bulkhead to the driver side post. The only possible weak point I can see is maybe the bulkheads, but I kind of doubt it.
Sean
I had to run a power wire #8 to the fuse block power term. that comes over to the stock batt. location. I found that when you try and start some cars the voltage drop will cause the power to the computer to drop out. When this happens(click) I ran a seperate wire to feed this at all times. Then a 1/0 to a terminal that feeds the starter. Problem solved. Like Jl I also ran a larger wire #4 to the alt. feed from the 1/0 at my term. I also ran a #4 ground from the block to the frame and a #2 gnd from the batt to the roll bar.
When I push my kill sw in the car will not start but the computer still has power. If the car is already running and the kill switch is pushed it will stay running but the current draw will cause igniton problems above idel speeds. I kill the car by shutting off the fuel pump relay. These cars have a big appitite for power. (current) I don't by the gnd problems either.
I do agree on the small batts not starting big cube motors. I went away from them a few years ago.
When I push my kill sw in the car will not start but the computer still has power. If the car is already running and the kill switch is pushed it will stay running but the current draw will cause igniton problems above idel speeds. I kill the car by shutting off the fuel pump relay. These cars have a big appitite for power. (current) I don't by the gnd problems either.
I do agree on the small batts not starting big cube motors. I went away from them a few years ago.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: IL
If you are talking about the post by the fuse panels on the driver side, we already have a 4ga going over there straight from the main positive bulkhead. Last year we already had the bulkheads installed, but the battery was on the front side. Now the battery is in the back feeding the back side of the bulkheads. We have tried a single 4ga to the back, and then an additional single 4ga to the front side, and it had no effect. That is why I doubt the bulkheads are an issue.
Sean
Sean
Yes did you run a seperate feed to it from the battery directly to it. Not the same cable as the one going to the starter. Look when you try and spin the motor over it draws a large amount of current and at the same time voltage will drop due to the cable length. When you run a seperate cable to the fuse block (power term.) the voltage won't drop or spike? It will stay the same as the battery and thus the computer won't cut out. If this doesn't fix it you have other issues.
If the bulk heads are fed from the same wire as trying to start the car it will not work.
The 4 is too small even if parelled. Min. size in MOP is 2 or bigger.
If the bulk heads are fed from the same wire as trying to start the car it will not work.
The 4 is too small even if parelled. Min. size in MOP is 2 or bigger.
Last edited by 1lejohn; Apr 15, 2011 at 10:51 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Fort Worth Texas
Voltage drop test results OK here are my voltage drop results, From the batt + to the starter + post my meter showed .2 -.3 while clicking, then when the starter actually turned the engine, it reads .5 this is with the 1/ 0 cable. I can gaurantee the ground is good, when Ohming from the battery to the neg cable end and oil pan, shows 000 when doing a voltage drop test from the neg. post of the batt to the ground wire end terminal shows 000. Put my stock cable back on and voltage drop showed .08 -.11, I am now thinking it may be the starter, I am al out of Ideas, everyone keeps saying its a ground, BUT I HAD MY BATT GROUNDED with 4 grounds, TWO OF THEM the factory grounds, and when OHMING them out and them showing no resistance at all, means they are good.
It isn't going to be your starter. I tried 3 different starters and two different alternators and neither fixed the issue. As far as grounds go I had a cable the same gauge as my positive cable running from the battery negative all the way to my block which was iron. You can't get a better ground than that. That's not even including the battery being grounded to the rear body and the block also being grounded to the front frame rail.
I did all this with a red top optima and a huge sears platinum battery. Put your stock cables on and your battery up front and see what happens before you start buying starters.
I did all this with a red top optima and a huge sears platinum battery. Put your stock cables on and your battery up front and see what happens before you start buying starters.
Lose weight, don't gain weight with that big *** cable and battery.