LG Motorsports

Julio
You take it hard when people call you on your BS don't you.

You and I both know that J-rod was on weight.
Here is a copy of a post from a Corvette forum member who was not only there, he had first hand knowledge of the weight.

Quote: JW02:
For the record, I zeroed the scales weighed J-Rods car before the first run, (10.67) got out of the car and took the video. The car weighed between 3265 and 3280 ALL DAY LONG.
end quote:

So that means that you are just using this scale game as a crutch to make a claim that is not valid.
Your own scale operator told J-rod that he should go make another run then come back to re-check the scales, so J-rod did. and he weighed 3280 this time and he never stopped or added any weight.

So since you are unwilling to accept anything other then your "Official" claim that the results are not valid, I am now "Officially" proclaiming that "J-Rod is the winner of the clash of the titans in SC". Which has as much or more validity as your self serving bogus claim.


Have fun in the -2500 DA racing, and come on down to Texas sometime and then you will understand that we only get 5 days a year like your "mineshaft" weather in NJ. If it makes you feel better, you can proclaim anything that you want but you know in your heart that you LOST, even if by only .04, you lost, and to a car that was 30 pounds overweight!

God bless you Julio. Keep up the good work.

Thanks
Lou G
LG Motorsports

Tekhombre

Thanks, I think he did great, he won.

?

Were you there to witness what happened to make a statement like that?

If he was off 5-10 pounds I could see that happening, but if I was J-rod and I just ran my fastest and quickest ET "EVER" in an event that my rival shop is in with their flagship H/C car and the scale read that I was 50# under, I would have the guy running the scale radio the tower for an official or anyone that can verify what is going on. Instead he pulled off, and on his next run he was 3280 and over 1 tenth and over 1 mph slower, he never duplicated or came close to that original time. Brent ran his best ET and MPH at legal weight on his 5th or sixth run. All that was taken into account, J-rod was just driving the car, there were a few people working on that car and he may or may not know what was done between rounds.

Your right, just go back and look at who posted that J-rod won before the event was even completed.

I agree, but your not going to pick up 2 miles an hour from lowering J-rod's ride to were Brent ride height was, he's lucky to pick up 0.25 MPH. Why don't you comment on how much ET and MPH Brent would pick up open exhaust then.

So your saying that J-rod's car with open header, race gas, huge cam, running 1-2 tenths and 2-3 mph slower was similar to Brent running a full exhaust, pump gas and a VERY streetable cam? Hummm, that's logical!


Julio

CHRISPY

Wasn't there only .03 seconds difference in ET between the two best "legal" passes for both guys?

Tekhombre

Yes .033, and 2.87 mph, even though Brent was running a full exhaust, pump gas and a streetable cam.

Why don't you average out their 5 best runs and display the ET and MPH.


Julio

Tekhombre

Yes, God bless you too Lou.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I'd like to see this get resolved or at least discussed with structure.

So the rules were:

---------------
General rules:

1. All cars must be IHRA legal for their ET and MPH.
2. Any octane “gasoline” will be permitted.
3. All classes will be in a heads up fashion, reaction time does not matter.
4. Each class needs a minimum of 8 cars, if that quota is not met, automatic and manual cars will be combined into one single class for that class only.
5. C-5s will race C-5s and F-bodies will race F-bodies, with the exception of the Unlimited Class.
6. Because of availability, AFR heads and LSX intakes will not be allowed unless they are readily available 6 weeks prior to the event. This rule does not apply to the “Unlimited Class”.
7. There will be time permitting six time shots. The fastest of your six time shots will be used to determine the winner of their class. If for any reason you make less than six passes, the fastest of those passes will be used to determine the winner.
8. After each pass, all cars must be weighed in and inspected by event officials or that shot time will not be valid.



Pure Street N/A:

This is for “N/A Heads and Cam” Minimum race weight 3250 LBS.

1. Stock GM short block. Stock GM crank, rods and pistons.
No aftermarket pistons, stock bore. Valve relief’s and rod bolts will be allowed.

2. Any GM LS1 or LS6 heads, no C5R heads.1

3. LS1 and LS6 intakes only, modifications to intakes will be allowed.2

4. Hydraulic and solid roller cams, any timing chains will be allowed.

5. Factory production transmission only, IE M6, M12 or 4L60E.

6. Any gear ratio in the stock style rear.

7. Stock style suspension, mini tubs will be allowed for tire clearance only. All factory mounting locations must be retained. No wheelie bars.

8. Any exhaust system will be allowed. Exhaust systems must meet track decibel limitations.

9. Tires are to be DOT approved with a maximum section with of 11.5 inches.

10. Manual trans. VS Manual trans., Auto. VS Auto. Unless class limitations rule differently.

11. ** Tear down rule will be in effect! **
-----------------
JRod posted running:

1/4 10.936
mph 124.77

1/4 10.672
mph 126.17

1/4 10.735
mph 124.70

1/4 10.812
mph 123.97

1/4 10.995
mph 123.39

1/4 10.943
mph 125.74

1/4 10.891
mph 124.57
1/4 10.865
mph 123.14
--------------------
Brent's best legal run was: 10.730 @ 127.99 pass 3255#
--------------------
So it comes down to whether that the 10.67 pass by JRod was at weight then right, because JRod's next best ET is not as good as Brent's best ET? The winner was determined as the car with the best ET right, you were not taking an average or anything right? JRod says in another post that he did a weigh-in with Brent, and that the car did okay, what does Brent say? I'm not taking sides but I would have thought based on the intense rivalry that folks would have been very scrupulous about being present at the weigh-ins and would have visually checked the car for the same ballast every time.

1/4milecrazy

I was the one with the shaved head and the goatee operating the scales the day of the shootout, prior to the beginning of the event Dave and I went to the scales to check both accuracy and to be shown how to properly zero the scale. The scales were zeroed out on every single run, everyone who raced that day should remember me holding them before they drove onto the scale, and then I guided the cars onto the scale just because of the simple fact that the scale was very narrow and I did not want anyone to drive off the side of the scale, I wanted to be as positive and accurate with every single car. Brent’s car was not at the legal weight for his first run and that run was not counted even though he got the time slip for that pass. I was there for the drivers meeting and I never heard anyone say any of the things that everyone is saying being said. Lou where you there for the drivers meeting????

The scale was not as inaccurate as everyone was saying, I personally weighed myself on the scale 7 or 8 times throughout the day and it read properly every single time. The scale was on a 5 pound base, for those that do not know what that means is that the scale only read in 5 pound increments so it would average up or down to the nearest 5 pounds.

As it was said earlier I was a little frustrated towards the beginning of the day only because I did not want the line at the scale to be as long as it was at that point, because I was pretty sure that some people might have wanted to get back to the pits to make changes or whatever.

I am also trying to get in touch with the guy that was there to help me with the scale for a long portion of the day, all I really know is that his name was Rob and he lived in Georgia, he was at the track that day to race and did not know the track was closed for the rental, but Dave let him make a couple of passes because of his help at the scale.

With all of this bickering about the scale you would think that someone would have sent a guy or two over to either check the accuracy of the scale or the accuracy of my book keeping, with the exception of a few guys (from Texas Speed I think) nobody ever came to check on anything over at the scales. Dave even said at the drivers meeting that if anyone wanted to send one of there guys over to help us out the help would be greatly appreciated, and after that I even said that I would prefer to have someone else there with me from another shop.

Lou you seem to be getting a lot of second or third hand information, where did you hear that the scales were reading negative before anyone pulled onto it? There was nobody there to verify what the scales were reading so where did you get this info

GS WS6

I thought that RWhite from MMT had run a 10.63 @ 127?!?!?!?!?

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

A couple of observations, from someone who is always objective and rarely gets involved in threads like this ....

1. A tuner shootout that is sponsored/run by one of the tuners involved is a stupid idea, for the obvious reasons.

2. Whoever won, whoever lost, a few things have been shown to be true:

A. Julio/Brent/Cartek are coming off as sore loosers, who are grasping at straws, trying to find a scenario that ends up in a Cartek victory. Anything else is unacceptable to them.

B. Julio/Brent/Cartek are whiners who basically whined about every aspect of JRods car. [ALL WITHIN THE RULES, BTW]

C. Cartek's "record holding" C5 is an average H/C C5 in non-minus 2500 DAs, as has been thought all along, yet they continued to maintain that they were the "kings" of the track, refusing to allow any sentiment that DA played any role in their 10.5x runs, most often "forgetting" to post the DA in their weekly "NEW BEST!!!" posts until someone asks (despite their using a $$$$$ weather station, showing that they know the importance of DA).

D. If you are going to disqualify JRods 10.67 run, fine, use his 10.73 run. BUT if you are going to do this, ALL of Brents runs should be DQ'ed because he broke the following rule 20+ times Yet, nothing is being said of this.

E. IMO, the lack of response from Brent himself would indicate how rediculious the argument that Tek is trying to pass off as fact really is. If I was being told I lost something I really one, I'd be all over here trying to present my argument. That is, if I had a valid argument.

F. A poll was up at Corvetteforum.com that asked who people thought won the shootout, JRod or Brent. Last I checked (at least before it was removed) JRod had 80+ % of the vote.....

Food for thought, just my opinion, and we all know what they say about opinions....

Shawn

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

There is nothing in the rules that specifies that you are limited to 6 runs. Frankly if I was within the rules, I would have tried running 104 unleaded and more timing, or stuff like that to try to eke out the best time.

So the gist here is that JRod was deemed underweight after his fiirst run which was a 10.67? He was deemed 50 lbs underweight? How much weight did he add before? So he added more weight after that run and then was okay? Is that the right chronology?

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

PSJ,

From what J-rod has said, he ran the 10.67, got off the scale at 3200lbs, went straight to the starting line again, made another pass of which he does not have a timeslip on, but weighed 3280lbs, never adding one ounce to the car.

Z06Les

Hi John,

That is correct, based on what J-Rod said and what he said to me as I was leaving the event. Does all this remind you of an F-Body event you tried to organize a ew years back??

BTW for the guy in the bleachers saying CarTek are whiners, I have no skin in that game but that is pure BS. Cartek clearly said at the drivers meeting that we could make unlimited runs until 2PM, so quit bringing up something that is a non-issue, you clearly were not there. And CarTek said that ANY tuner was welcome to help with the tech/weigh process, and that any car that did not make weight wuld be DQ'd. There was some variation in the scales, I experienced that personally, but I also get a bit tired of the CarTek bashing from people who weren't there and don't know crap about what transpired.

For the record I have never purchased from LGM or CarTek, but this name calling has gone beyond ridiculous. J-Rod was there, he has been a gentleman and never claimed a conspiracy, so let it go at that. CarTek put on a great event, without their sponsorship there wouldn't have been a race for the bleacher crowd to complain about.

Congrat's to Brent and J-Rod for showing the manners and good sense to ignore this crap, maybe next time some of these bleacher racers will show up and put their bad *** ride on the line - huh??

Les

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Well the guy operating the scales tells a different story. Too many stories going on here.

1/4milecrazy

These are the time slips I have from J-Rod

Date: 02/22/2004
Time: 11:20:22

R.T…….....……+.848207
60’……......……1.449133
330’…….......…4.386693
1/8 E.T…….....6.813692
1/8 MPH…….....…101.88
1/4E.T……....10.672987
1/4MPH……….....126.17
Car weight: 3200#

Date:02/22/2004
Time: 11:42:52

R.T………....….+.672973
60’…………......1.454507
330’………....…4.413778
1/8E.T……...…6.867229
1/8MPH…….....…100.71
1/4E.T…...….10.763328
1/4MPH……….....125.12
Car weight: 3280#

After reviewing all of the info I have from both my personal records, and what I got from the track the day of the event I have absolutely nothing showing a 10.73 pass from J-Rod.

LG Motorsports

John,
J-rod was only underweight before the event when he checked his weight to get it right BEFORE his first run. He added weight and then Checked his weight again. It weighed 3265. He then went directly to the line, carrying a passenger, (who also attests to the fact that J-rod weighed over the minimum) and made his first run. Upon crossing the scales after the 10.67 run, his car now showed only 3200, even though it really weighed 3280. J-rod was told to go run again and stop at the scales after that because the scales were messed up.( there were boards missing on this old wood covered delapatated scale). When J-rod came back directly after his next run, which was immediate, his car now weighed 3280 without making any changes. But this time they lost his time slip???

He weighed 3280 to 3275 on his other few runs during the day BECAUSE they started to Zero the scales before each car. Even with that, there were many who still experienced varried weights after each run.


In summary, the scales were off, and that is not conjecture it is fact. J-Rod was deemed legal weight on the "approved" scales. He ran at that weight, then the scales read differently, but with no changes, the car then somehow read correctly and showed J-rod at 30 lb over weight for the remainder of the day.

If the approved scales, such as they were, varified J rods weight, then he ran with no changes, then he was legal.

The one thing that I would have done is to demand a re weigh right then when the light scale reading came up. J rod is too accomidating and took this scale operators advice and made another run and weighed correctly. It was not until 6 hrs later that J rod became aware that cartek was going to pull a fast one and declare Brent the winner.

Cartek would have then found some other way to negate J-rods run. I am sure that they would have tired.

So I am not sure what Cartek hopes to gain from this kind of behavior. It doesn't look good for them.

I am sure that Brent is a nice guy, but he and J-rod are caught in this "Hanging chad recount" in SC.


My appologies to all. I will bow out of this discussion and let Julio and cartek have their day.

In 100 years, no one will care anyway.

Lou G

DavidBusch

First I would like to thank all the sponsors, The Vette Doctors, Lingenfelter, Vararam, and last but not least, Neptune Bill. I would also like to thank all the competitors for putting on a good show.

We had a good time and met a lot of nice people. All the cars ran well except for mine, LOL.
The weather could not have been any better, especially coming from NJ.

Paul your car ran great and your last minute fix (torque tube) obviously paid off. Vette Doctors, you guys had a strong showing.
DJ Self I didn’t see any of your runs, but I had heard you where running real strong. Thank you for coming out and being one of the representatives for Lingenfelter.
Optic ZO6, I also had the chance to see your car run. It definitely runs great and it was a pleasure meeting you as well.
ChrisNJC5/ECS It was a shame your car had problems, I’m sure it would have ran strong, it always has before. Thank you for coming.
Steve Oyer it was a pleasure meeting you in person.
John/Vette00 it is always great to see you. That 427 is hard to beat.
Tom/APE congratulations on the win. It was fun racing you. Sorry my car wasn’t running up to par. We definitely have to do it again.
J Rod it was nice meeting you also. You are one heck of a driver and the car runs hard.

Sorry if I left anybody out, it was a very long and tiring, yet very fun weekend.

Let me now get into the days’ events. The day started off with being shown around the facilities, one of the things being the scales. They showed us how to use the scales, and the proper procedure according to them, which involved the zeroing of the scale after each weigh in.

Second important event of the day was the driver’s meeting. At the driver’s meeting I informed everyone that we had the track to ourselves and that we could all make as many runs as we wanted and that they would all count and that we where going to treat this as a regular track rental day. I also said that if you don’t go over the scale the run would not count, but I never said that if you weighed under the required minimum that you wouldn’t receive the time slip.
Spare people where invited to come down to the scales to help. I had said that we where short handed at the scale and that I also didn’t want any arguments later about weights, but only one person came down to help. Finally I said if there are any complaints to tell the guy at the scale “he has a two way radio” he’ll contact us and someone will be down to settle it out. With that I added to come directly to our trailer for any complaints that weren’t resolved.

Jrod I talked to you at the meeting and made sure I was very clear. You were standing rite in front of me. I told every one “If you had a problem, ask for us to be called to you”. I was very clear.

Your car runs great, you were told the weight, you left the scale, you had the opportunity to call for an official. And that is racing.

I’m sorry if any one does not like the results. No other classes have any issues. Every one I talked to had a good time.

LG Motorsports

Below is a post from the corvette forum from a guy who was there.
I just thought it would add some light to the subject.


Quote: from JW02 below
----------------------------------

Just finished the 20 hour drive back to San Antonio from the Shootout and wanted to say thanks to a couple of the Cartek guys. First to Dave from Cartek for succinctly explaining the fact that only weight legal runs would be given a time slip. (J-Rod got one- 10.67) Also thanks to Cartek for providing the man to read the scales. Another special thanks to Cartek for providing the public address announcer without whose help we wouldn't have heard about the reasonably priced Cartek X Packages all day long. Thanks to Brent for running 20 to 30 times trying to win. Very durable car! And last but not least a special thanks to Julio from Cartek who asked the all important question at 3:45 to 3-Gun and J-Rod, and I quote, "What makes you think you won the race?" Reply, "We have got the slip with the fasted time," says 3-Gun. Response from Julio, "We decide who wins this race."
For the record, I zeroed the scales and weighed the car before J-Rods first run, got out of the car and took the video. 10.67. The car weighed between 3265 and 3280 ALL DAY LONG.
_______

Says it all I think.

LG

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Years? Maybe 100 minutes for me. This drama isn't any different than how it was before this event. I still can't believe there was an "event" that was just timeslip racing instead of side by side action. I miss Joe Kizzire, if he were here he would be tearing you guys up for not racing eachother, and just timeslip racing.

Was there dynojet racing too? That would have been the icing

Anyways, this thread isn't going anywhere, and I think everyone has said their thoughts. Lets close this drama queen down.

Tony