Chris G

I usually put it in 5th and then use the brakes. In 5th gear the rpms are not up high at all, but hang around 3K rpms and help the brakes slow down the car.

Chris G

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: Chris G ]

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: Chris G ]</p>

Brownie

Uh oh!

This is very interesting. I engine brake all the time (not from extreme high revs to low revs) and use it along with braking. I engine brake on off ramps to slow my progress. I go down one gear at a time and usually only down to second gear.

Looks like its time to adjust my driving style, I didn't realize this would be hard on the engine <img src="images/icons/frown.gif" border="0"> as long as I didn't downshift to extremes.

Mike

MI_SS_IL

[quote]Originally posted by Brownie:
<strong>Uh oh!

This is very interesting. I engine brake all the time (not from extreme high revs to low revs) and use it along with braking. I engine brake on off ramps to slow my progress. I go down one gear at a time and usually only down to second gear.

Looks like its time to adjust my driving style, I didn't realize this would be hard on the engine <img src="images/icons/frown.gif" border="0"> as long as I didn't downshift to extremes.

Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>

Me too, I always go down through the gears when I'm slowing down. Like coming to a light or something. I let the engine brake me more than I use the brakes. Who's had problems with this type of thing?

Chris

Nightclaw

The problem isn't with downshifting off the highway (although your clutch might disagree <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> ), but when you're coming down off a high-RPM run. When you're accelerating (racing), the force of combustion is exerted downward against the length of the connecting rod. But when you're engine braking, now the pistons are acting as vacuum pumps and the cylinder forces are reversed. Instead of pushing down on the con rods, the pistons are (essentially) pulling against the caps. This can cause the con rod caps and bolts to stretch (thus causing spun bearings)and in extreme cases break.

But again, there's a difference of extremes downshifting off the highway and letting the engine brake the vehicle at 5000 RPM and 120 MPH. I almost always downshift through the gears coming off the highway or approaching stoplights. However I never engine brake after I cross the traps until I get the speed down to where I'm only looking at 2000-2500 RPM on the downshift.

MI_SS_IL

[quote]Originally posted by Nightclaw:
<strong>The problem isn't with downshifting off the highway (although your clutch might disagree <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> ), but when you're coming down off a high-RPM run. When you're accelerating (racing), the force of combustion is exerted downward against the length of the connecting rod. But when you're engine braking, now the pistons are acting as vacuum pumps and the cylinder forces are reversed. Instead of pushing down on the con rods, the pistons are (essentially) pulling against the caps. This can cause the con rod caps and bolts to stretch (thus causing spun bearings)and in extreme cases break.

But again, there's a difference of extremes downshifting off the highway and letting the engine brake the vehicle at 5000 RPM and 120 MPH. I almost always downshift through the gears coming off the highway or approaching stoplights. However I never engine brake after I cross the traps until I get the speed down to where I'm only looking at 2000-2500 RPM on the downshift.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So what do you do after the traps? Put it in neutral, 6th, 5th?

Chris

Nightclaw

I usually just leave it in gear with the clutch disengaged. When I get to the turn off, I just drop it into second and drive off the track. This has always worked well for me, but do bear in mind that I've never crossed the traps at any speed over 114 MPH. Higher trap speeds and/or shorter braking areas of course would change how I did it. I still wouldn't engine brake if I couldn't keep the engine below 3000 RPM though.

MI_SS_IL

Hmmm, I've tried that too, but I really have to hammer the brakes because at our track it's such a short distance to the turn. Maybe I'll try putting it in 5th and braking together. That should keep the rpms below 3000 or close to it.

Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to try it until spring. This is going to be the longest 5 months of my life (I've only had the car since June so it's new to me). I think about it all day everyday (as you can see by this post).

Chris

Brownie

[quote]Originally posted by Nightclaw:
<strong>The problem isn't with downshifting off the highway (although your clutch might disagree <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> ), but when you're coming down off a high-RPM run. When you're accelerating (racing), the force of combustion is exerted downward against the length of the connecting rod. But when you're engine braking, now the pistons are acting as vacuum pumps and the cylinder forces are reversed. Instead of pushing down on the con rods, the pistons are (essentially) pulling against the caps. This can cause the con rod caps and bolts to stretch (thus causing spun bearings)and in extreme cases break.

But again, there's a difference of extremes downshifting off the highway and letting the engine brake the vehicle at 5000 RPM and 120 MPH. I almost always downshift through the gears coming off the highway or approaching stoplights. However I never engine brake after I cross the traps until I get the speed down to where I'm only looking at 2000-2500 RPM on the downshift.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks, now I feel better <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0"> and understand why I wouldn't want high rpm downshifting. I can see the pulling on the caps not being too cool. My off ramp & stoplight techniques won't need to change and I don't use high rpm compression braking after the traps.

Mike

MI_SS_IL

[quote]Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>I have heard that engine breaking is hard on the engine and the bearings. I put my car into OD as soon as I go thru traps.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You don't manually upshift it do you? You have an A4 I'm assuming. Or do you mean you put it 6th (overdrive)?

Oh, I just saw the Yank ... A4, so you do upshift it down the track?

Chris

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: MI_SS_LE ]</p>

MI_SS_IL

[quote]Originally posted by McRat:
<strong>

After a 1/4mi pass, I push the clutch in and brake. I have a better feel for what the car is doing with the clutch in. Our turnout (1 only) is only a few hundred feet from the finish, you have to brake aggressively or do a Uturn on the track. My first few passes, I had to do a UTurn.

With big fronts, it's not so much of a issue, because these cars have SERIOUS braking power. With skinnies, it's a little fussier.

On the street, I usually go to 6th.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You put the clutch in and hold it in? I've done that too and wondered if it's ok. I guess it can't hurt right? But then you really have to get on the brakes because there's no engine braking with the clutch disengaged.

Chris

Nightclaw

Well think about it this way. Would you rather use up your brakes faster? Or would you rather stretch you rod caps/bolts, spin a bearing or two, and possibly throw a rod?

On the "other" LS1 board, there was more than one munched bottom end, the failure of which was at least partially attributed to using engine braking at high RPM.

That's a valid point about oil being drawn into the top end. I wonder if it would be possible to rig an oil reservoir, kinda like a pre-oiler, that would lubricate the top end without having to engine brake. Hmm...

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: Nightclaw ]</p>

MI_SS_IL

[quote]Originally posted by Nightclaw:
<strong>Well think about it this way. Would you rather go through brakes faster? Or would you rather stretch you rod cap bolds, spin a bearing or two, and possibly throw a rod?

On the "other" LS1 board, there was more than one munched bottom end, the failure of which was at least partially attributed to using engine braking at high RPM.

That's a valid point about oil being drawn into the top end. I wonder if it would be possible to rig an oil reservoir, kinda like a pre-oiler, that would lubricate the top end without having to engine brake. Hmm...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I don't know how you'd throw a rod. I mean you take it up into those rpms and the engine is doing a lot of work right there so I can't see how it would be much worse coming down from those high rpms. But then I'm not an expert and that's why I'm asking the question. I seem to be getting mixed reviews. So far, when I pass someone on the road I let the engine brake me down to cruising speed just because I'm speeding way too long if I put it in 6th (like if I pass 3 or 4 cars at once you're doing a good speed). I don't want to hurt the car prematurely. I beat on it enough already. Most importantly, I want to learn the best techniques.

Chris

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

Maybe I'm weird, but (on my A4 '94Z) I brake with my left foot and ease out of the throttle with my right foot. That way I'm not just slamming the throttle blades shut and engine braking.

Have only been to the track once with the '98 M6, so I haven't got it figured out yet. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

-Andrew

BBYZED

Chris (MI_SS_LE),

What are your trap speeds like? I usually hit in the 102 mph range (I suck, I've only made like 8 passes total so far though), but even on my damn-near 104 mph run I had no problem getting off on the first exit @ Luskville. I usually let off the gas and start braking, starting lightly and then starting to lean on them as I get closer to the exit. I haven't needed to use the ABS yet either so seems okay. Once I have bled off enough speed (down to around 70 mph) I will start downshifting to give the brakes some help from the engine. Hit 3rd around 70, then down to 2nd around 35-40, then pop to neutral. Doesn't rev the engine way up, but enough to assist the brakes so they don't get all heated up and ruined.

In regards to MR, the site was always too slow for me (like 3 minutes to post one reply, that was pretty much the average) and with all the ricer vs domestic stuff, I just don't want to waste my time waiting for it to load just to read yet another how imports are so superior to domestics and vice versa arguments. I have owned both types in the past and they both have their positive/negative aspects. I just couldn't stand reading/wading through the crap so I could get to something good. Perhaps later on I will go back and see how things are, but not right now. If you are looking for something else local, there is an ottawa fbody mailing list, just email to ottawafbody@yahoogroups.com. I'm on there, as is Paul M (Madelinot from MR).

Are you planning on heading over to Luskville next spring? I want to go one of the first weekends they are open for the cooler air, and hopefully test my new mods (assuming I get them for Christmas). Don't forget you will need a helmet there if you run 13s next year!

MI_SS_IL

[quote]Originally posted by BBYZED:
<strong>Chris (MI_SS_LE),

What are your trap speeds like? I usually hit in the 102 mph range (I suck, I've only made like 8 passes total so far though), but even on my damn-near 104 mph run I had no problem getting off on the first exit @ Luskville. I usually let off the gas and start braking, starting lightly and then starting to lean on them as I get closer to the exit. I haven't needed to use the ABS yet either so seems okay. Once I have bled off enough speed (down to around 70 mph) I will start downshifting to give the brakes some help from the engine. Hit 3rd around 70, then down to 2nd around 35-40, then pop to neutral. Doesn't rev the engine way up, but enough to assist the brakes so they don't get all heated up and ruined.

In regards to MR, the site was always too slow for me (like 3 minutes to post one reply, that was pretty much the average) and with all the ricer vs domestic stuff, I just don't want to waste my time waiting for it to load just to read yet another how imports are so superior to domestics and vice versa arguments. I have owned both types in the past and they both have their positive/negative aspects. I just couldn't stand reading/wading through the crap so I could get to something good. Perhaps later on I will go back and see how things are, but not right now. If you are looking for something else local, there is an ottawa fbody mailing list, just email to ottawafbody@yahoogroups.com. I'm on there, as is Paul M (Madelinot from MR).

Are you planning on heading over to Luskville next spring? I want to go one of the first weekends they are open for the cooler air, and hopefully test my new mods (assuming I get them for Christmas). Don't forget you will need a helmet there if you run 13s next year!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm on the Ottawa F-body mailing list. I don't use it that much though.

I'm definitely going to Luskville as soon as they open up. I think I'm going to take some trips to some other tracks too. I'll have my new clutch in by then so I should be low 13's. With bad clutch I run high 13's with about 104-105 trap speeds (although my best run was a 13.7@103mph). I have to shift early because the clutch won't grab 2nd if I top it out in 1st so my mph are good (which tells me the car has power).

My brother has a 98 SS M6 also, he runs 13.3 and it's bone stock so I figure my car should be in the same area (I have exhaust done so maybe a little better).

We'll all have to get together for the first or second weekend in spring to make a trip to the track.

Chris

BBYZED

Absolutely. If I could learn to launch better I'm sure the car could hit around 13.5 @ about 105 mph (nearly there now). I have no doubt the car can do it, I just need to launch it well. My best 60' is in the 2.2x range, which is pretty bad. Gotta feather the clutch more.

So are you out in the Almonte area then? That is the only black SS I can recall from that mailing list. You may want to consider joining the Toronto list as well, but there is a ton of mail generated from that list (about 80 messages a day on average).

I'm sure if you watch the ottawa list there will be a group going to Luskville as soon as it opens (or shortly thereafter). I would like another shot at the track before doing any more mods (such as the MAF and lid I am hoping to get for Christmas).

MI_SS_IL

I live right downtown (Bank & Somerset). I work in Nepean. There's only 1 other black SS I know of in Ottawa. That's Andy (don't know if you know him or not). He a 99 'vert. I know some of the guys on the mailing list. I'm sure you know Paul with the blue Z and maybe Rick with the 99 Formula WS6? I bought my shifter from that list from a guy named Travis.

I'm dying for spring already. It sucks that I come on here and ask questions and learn to drive my car better and can't even go out and test the things that I've learned.

If you get your 60' times down to 2.0 or so you'll be low 13's for sure. It's nice to see another M6 in Ottawa. You're the only other LS1 I know up here that has a manual. See ya in the spring <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

Chris

BBYZED

D'Oh! Forgot about Andy. Ha ha! Yep, know Paul, he's at 13.2 with lid, headers, hi-flow cats, Borla, but on stock tires. I think he is gonna go for a stall converter next summer and maybe nitrous, plus some 17s. He should be pretty quick then.

Yep, been out with Rick to the drags a couple times. Have you met John with the 97 silver SS? Nice car, he just needs to learn how to launch it (is only hitting high 14s, car can do much better than that).

I think most of the 4th gens in Ottawa are A4s. That's better if all you want is a track star. I'm going for the corner carver that can still run a nice ET (maybe somewhere in 12s, fast enough for a straight line and still be able to drive to get groceries!).

I can't remember if you have any mods. What do you have? So far I only have !CAGS, FRA, K&N and the wheels/tires. Should be getting a lid and 85mm MAF for spring. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

beaSSt

MI_SS_LE / BBYZED

I'm the black SS from Almonte. Its a 2000 hardtop.
You can see pics of my car on MR in my user profile.

I work in Kanata -- the high-tech park between Mitel and Alcatel.

Harry

MI_SS_IL

[quote]Originally posted by BBYZED:
<strong>D'Oh! Forgot about Andy. Ha ha! Yep, know Paul, he's at 13.2 with lid, headers, hi-flow cats, Borla, but on stock tires </strong><hr></blockquote>

Paul's got a lot done to his car. He has more suspension work than I can remember. He's also got BFG's. Last I heard he wanted a supercharger or nitrous. Personally, I would get a torque converter for an A4.

BeaSSt, I think I may have seen your car one day parked at a meter on Nepean St. downtown Ottawa. I parked in front of it. When I got back from what I was doing I went to the wrong car by mistake, tried to open the door and my key fob wouldn't work. I walked right by my car and went to the one behind me. I was right out of it I guess. So, do you run it or what? I've never seen you at the track before. Are you an A4 or M6?

Here're my mods

Chris