Question about slowing down after traps
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Farmingdale NJ
Re: Question about slowing down after traps [quote]
Originally posted by Patman:
It doesn't hurt the engine at all, in fact it may help it since it brings oil up into the upper cylinder area. I do know that when you're breaking in a new engine they recommend coasting like this. <hr></blockquote>
Um, are you forgetting that while breaking in an engine, the entire point of it is to put wear on the motor?
Originally posted by Patman:
It doesn't hurt the engine at all, in fact it may help it since it brings oil up into the upper cylinder area. I do know that when you're breaking in a new engine they recommend coasting like this. <hr></blockquote>
Um, are you forgetting that while breaking in an engine, the entire point of it is to put wear on the motor?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Question about slowing down after traps [quote]Originally posted by Cool28:
<strong>See now I heard it was bad to let the engine slow you down at high rpms.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I still don't know if we've come to a consensus on that. Have we? It's kind of retarded to pass someone on the street and then hit the brakes after you go by them to slow down. Putting it in 6th doesn't put enough drag on the car to slow down in a reasonable amount of time. I think from now on I'll throw it in 5th after a pass and same thing after the traps at the track.
It seems we have a 50/50 split as to whether or not engine braking is ok.
Chris
<strong>See now I heard it was bad to let the engine slow you down at high rpms.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I still don't know if we've come to a consensus on that. Have we? It's kind of retarded to pass someone on the street and then hit the brakes after you go by them to slow down. Putting it in 6th doesn't put enough drag on the car to slow down in a reasonable amount of time. I think from now on I'll throw it in 5th after a pass and same thing after the traps at the track.
It seems we have a 50/50 split as to whether or not engine braking is ok.
Chris
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From: Ottawa
Re: Question about slowing down after traps Harry! hey, I work right down the street from you. I'm at Mitel itself! Cool.
I can't see any problems with engine braking unless you are a real idiot about it. If you don't throw it into 3rd at 100mph right after the traps then you should be fine. With downshifting and braking you lighten the load on both of them as both are being helped by the other. Just using common sense should avoid any blunders.
Would any of you Ottawa types be interested in a dyno day at Tapp Auto? I doubt it happen until spring now, but I would like to get it done and they seem to be the only place in Ottawa that has a dyno! Maybe a dyno day Saturday followed by a drag day Sunday?
I can't see any problems with engine braking unless you are a real idiot about it. If you don't throw it into 3rd at 100mph right after the traps then you should be fine. With downshifting and braking you lighten the load on both of them as both are being helped by the other. Just using common sense should avoid any blunders.
Would any of you Ottawa types be interested in a dyno day at Tapp Auto? I doubt it happen until spring now, but I would like to get it done and they seem to be the only place in Ottawa that has a dyno! Maybe a dyno day Saturday followed by a drag day Sunday?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Question about slowing down after traps I definitely want to get mine dynoed next spring. I'm in for sure. Maybe we'll get a discount. I'm sure we could get a few others in on it as well.
Chris
Chris
Teching In
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From: tx
Re: Question about slowing down after traps its always easier on an engine not to let it do the braking...you'll toss the rods out of it..no load...they dont like that...save the motor, use the brakes..thats what they are for!!!!! try it!
TECH Apprentice
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From: Ottawa
Re: Question about slowing down after traps I will do some calling to Chris at Tapp then in the spring....I will notify here and on the mailing list in Ottawa........
I engine brake all the time on the street, no problems have developed yet, and as long as you aren't downshifting too soon, shouldn't be a problem. It's all about balance. I use more brake than engine braking, but I do use the engine a little bit after the traps.
I engine brake all the time on the street, no problems have developed yet, and as long as you aren't downshifting too soon, shouldn't be a problem. It's all about balance. I use more brake than engine braking, but I do use the engine a little bit after the traps.
TECH Senior Member
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From: Troy, AL
Re: Question about slowing down after traps GM wasn't too concerned with coasting down from high rpms. They don't instruct in the owners manual throwing an A4 into neutral to slow things down from high rpms. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Seriously, I really don't think it's that big of a deal. I've been doing this in every car I've ever owned and have never known of any harm due to it.
On some tracks I need every bit of braking I can get when stopping from 135 MPH. I let 'er coast down from 6850 many times a day. I do the same on the street.
Besides, it sounds much cooler that way! <img src="images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">
[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
Seriously, I really don't think it's that big of a deal. I've been doing this in every car I've ever owned and have never known of any harm due to it.
On some tracks I need every bit of braking I can get when stopping from 135 MPH. I let 'er coast down from 6850 many times a day. I do the same on the street.
Besides, it sounds much cooler that way! <img src="images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">
[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
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Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Question about slowing down after traps Well, I guess the guy who runs 9's can have the final say. Who's going to argue? <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0"> 9's! Damn!
Have any of you M6 guys actually ever thrown a rod or anything due to engine braking? I'd like to hear from someone who has actually had the problem. So far I've only heard that it "might" happen. I've heard valid excuses for and against engine braking. So far I'm leaning towards letting the engine slow me down (although I might put it in 5th now, rather than leave it in 4th). Obviously, I'll still need the brakes. But for overall driving, track and street, I think moderate engine braking should be okay?
Chris
Have any of you M6 guys actually ever thrown a rod or anything due to engine braking? I'd like to hear from someone who has actually had the problem. So far I've only heard that it "might" happen. I've heard valid excuses for and against engine braking. So far I'm leaning towards letting the engine slow me down (although I might put it in 5th now, rather than leave it in 4th). Obviously, I'll still need the brakes. But for overall driving, track and street, I think moderate engine braking should be okay?
Chris
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From: Troy, AL
Re: Question about slowing down after traps LOL! I'm not trying to get the final say. Just tossin' in my $.02. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0"> Ya'll do whatever you want. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Say, what about road course guys? Do they push the clutch in or toss it into neutral everytime they have to let out of it?
[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
Say, what about road course guys? Do they push the clutch in or toss it into neutral everytime they have to let out of it?
[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
TECH Apprentice
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From: Ottawa
Re: Question about slowing down after traps Chris, if I remember correctly, you are running about the same trap speed as me (around 104mph) and if so you are barely in 4th (I actually hit my 103.997 in third!) so you aren't at too high an rpm to coast (somewhere around 4000 rpm if memory serves me) without going to 5th. At Luskville, I hit the brakes before I get to the end of the guard rails....
TECH Apprentice
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From: Ottawa
Re: Question about slowing down after traps Easy to go through in third, just don't shift! <img src="images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0">
Seriously, that run I didn't shift into 4th, just left it in 3rd and hit the limiter just as I was at the traps, and voila, 103.997 in 3rd gear.
I guess all you really can do is test what works for you. If I shift into 4th during the run, I just leave it and coast a bit then hit the brakes and downshift. I don't think that being at 4000-4500 rpm in 4th is going to do much damage considering you just completed a 1/4 mile run at WOT....... <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
Seriously, that run I didn't shift into 4th, just left it in 3rd and hit the limiter just as I was at the traps, and voila, 103.997 in 3rd gear.
I guess all you really can do is test what works for you. If I shift into 4th during the run, I just leave it and coast a bit then hit the brakes and downshift. I don't think that being at 4000-4500 rpm in 4th is going to do much damage considering you just completed a 1/4 mile run at WOT....... <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 85
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Question about slowing down after traps Bounced it off the limiter? LMAO! 103mph is pretty good for not even shifting to 4th. I hope that wasn't intentional <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
Chris
Chris
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Question about slowing down after traps How do you go through the traps in 3rd? And yes on avg. I run through at 104-105 but my 13.7 was at 103 same as you. Again, how did you go through in 3rd? You must have let off the gas to do that no?
And yes I am at too high an rpm to coast in 5th. (I mean if I put it in 5th after the traps just to ease the engine braking). I'm in too high an rpm even in 4th because I still have to get on the brakes to make the turn at the end. I just figured I'd put it in 5th and use the brakes more rather than leave it in 4th and use the brakes less. I'll have to see how it works. It's hard to say right now.
Chris
[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: MI_SS_LE ]</p>
And yes I am at too high an rpm to coast in 5th. (I mean if I put it in 5th after the traps just to ease the engine braking). I'm in too high an rpm even in 4th because I still have to get on the brakes to make the turn at the end. I just figured I'd put it in 5th and use the brakes more rather than leave it in 4th and use the brakes less. I'll have to see how it works. It's hard to say right now.
Chris
[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: MI_SS_LE ]</p>
TECH Apprentice
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From: Ottawa
Re: Question about slowing down after traps Everyone always says that with a stock LS1 you should be able to cross the traps in 3rd gear. So I thought, what the hell, let's give it a shot. Went to redline each gear and as I was approaching redline in third I was just about at the billboards where the traps are and thought I could make it in third, and just as I was passing through the traps I bounced the limiter, then shifted to 4th. So it seems that 3rd maxes out at just under 104 mph! It was sort of intentional. It likely saved me a 1/2 of a tenth by not shifting right at the traps and netted my best ET and mph.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Question about slowing down after traps [quote]Originally posted by BBYZED:
<strong>Everyone always says that with a stock LS1 you should be able to cross the traps in 3rd gear.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who ever says that is wrong. Plain and simple. You have to shift to 4th. You'll get a better time if you do. It sucks that 3rd runs out right before the traps, but with our 3.42's that's what we have to do.
Chris
P.S. I went and saw my car on the weekend (it's stored in Toronto). I almost broke down and took it out, but with no plates or insurance I couldn't bring myself to do it. Winter sucks!
<strong>Everyone always says that with a stock LS1 you should be able to cross the traps in 3rd gear.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who ever says that is wrong. Plain and simple. You have to shift to 4th. You'll get a better time if you do. It sucks that 3rd runs out right before the traps, but with our 3.42's that's what we have to do.
Chris
P.S. I went and saw my car on the weekend (it's stored in Toronto). I almost broke down and took it out, but with no plates or insurance I couldn't bring myself to do it. Winter sucks!
TECH Apprentice
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From: Ottawa
Re: Question about slowing down after traps That's gotta suck alright! Why stored in Toronto? Cheaper? That's quite a distance to go.
Every time I have shifted to 4th I have lost time on the ETs. I actually don't think I am using all of 1st and 2nd either. If you have a perfect launch and use all the rpm in all the gears you would likely need 4th (to get up to 105 mph). That extra shift at the end is gonna cost 1/2 a 1/10 or so in ET.
Every time I have shifted to 4th I have lost time on the ETs. I actually don't think I am using all of 1st and 2nd either. If you have a perfect launch and use all the rpm in all the gears you would likely need 4th (to get up to 105 mph). That extra shift at the end is gonna cost 1/2 a 1/10 or so in ET.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Question about slowing down after traps I store it in T.O. because it's free. My parents place down there has a big garage. You should see the collection in there right now. My brother has a red 98 SS and a black 454 67 Chevelle. My dad has a 56 Ford Crown Victoria (that's going to be getting a 427 Cobra Jet engine in it if he ever puts it together) and my black SS. I know it's going to be looked after if I leave it there. Plus it's free.
I was downtown again yesterday and saw a black SS again on Nepean St.. Same one I posted about earlier in these posts. Lucky bastard is still driving it.
I think I'm going to Shannonville at the beginning of spring to the strip there. We should get a bunch of F-bod's together for the trip. They have a dragstrip and a road course. It's around Belleville (2 hours away).
Chris
I was downtown again yesterday and saw a black SS again on Nepean St.. Same one I posted about earlier in these posts. Lucky bastard is still driving it.
I think I'm going to Shannonville at the beginning of spring to the strip there. We should get a bunch of F-bod's together for the trip. They have a dragstrip and a road course. It's around Belleville (2 hours away).
Chris
TECH Apprentice
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From: Ottawa
Re: Question about slowing down after traps Well, that is worth the trip! Sounds like a nice collection alright.
If we went to Shannonville there might be some from the Toronto group that would want to go as well (since they are about the same distance away). I gotta learn to hook up at the track!
It has been surprisingly good weather, but I finally broke down and put the snow tires on the last week of November (when we last had snow, I figured it might stick around for a bit, until it hit 7 C on Dec 1). Oh well, I'm ready for anything!
If we went to Shannonville there might be some from the Toronto group that would want to go as well (since they are about the same distance away). I gotta learn to hook up at the track!
It has been surprisingly good weather, but I finally broke down and put the snow tires on the last week of November (when we last had snow, I figured it might stick around for a bit, until it hit 7 C on Dec 1). Oh well, I'm ready for anything!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 85
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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Question about slowing down after traps You're not driving the Z in the winter are you? Good luck if you are. I had trouble in the rain with mine. I guess with snow tires you should be okay.
Part of the reason I want to go to Shannonville is because I know a couple of guys from T.O. who want to go and that is half way for both of us. So we should get a bunch of guys from up here too and make a day of it.
Chris
Part of the reason I want to go to Shannonville is because I know a couple of guys from T.O. who want to go and that is half way for both of us. So we should get a bunch of guys from up here too and make a day of it.
Chris