Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight?
01-04-2002, 12:55 AM
#81
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? Why not just backtrack into the history of a similar racing class or association and start with a similar basis? Just modify a few specifics to fit our needs and be done with it. Not everyone will be happy with, but tough ****. Hell if NIRA can take off, I think we can make this work.
John <img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />
John <img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />
01-04-2002, 12:55 AM
#82
LS1Tech Co-Founder
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? And Joe, looks like you wrote another post while I was running mine.
I am looking at all-gens.
For you to think this is all about the Colonel is retarded... GET A LIFE.
I am in touch with all different gen owners...
Why do you even think that Colonel would win that Xtreme NA class?
I am looking at all-gens.
For you to think this is all about the Colonel is retarded... GET A LIFE.
I am in touch with all different gen owners...
Why do you even think that Colonel would win that Xtreme NA class?
01-04-2002, 09:09 AM
#83
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? Hey I have a little thumper on my 86 Camaro.
88mm turbo. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
Im glad to see more people are opening up their eyes to F-Body Racing Progression. A year ago it didnt seem like any of the LS1 guys were.
Make em fast!!
<img src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" border="0" alt="[guns]" /> Joe Kizziere <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
88mm turbo. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
Im glad to see more people are opening up their eyes to F-Body Racing Progression. A year ago it didnt seem like any of the LS1 guys were.
Make em fast!!
<img src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" border="0" alt="[guns]" /> Joe Kizziere <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
01-04-2002, 09:58 AM
#84
TECH Senior Member
Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? I NEVER pushed John or Chris for a 3000 lb class. Like I said before, it's makes hardly a difference to me if I bring home a trophy or not. I'm there for the good times. I told John that regardless of the rules I would be there but that I possibly might just do exhibition runs. No big deal. I'd have just as much fun.
Besides, DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE IN AN UNLIMITED CLASS WITH LT1s??? Heck no, I'd rather be up against only LS1s. As usual, you're just trying to stir the pot. <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Joe, you make it sound like my adding weight back to my car brought me all the way from 10.06 to 10.43 (actually, all things considered I was WELL pleased with being the second fastest NA LS1 there.) When in fact you know that I had...
A new TH-350 transmission with a NON-working transbrake.
A 2.52 1st gear (was 3.06 in the 4L60-E.)
Major knock retard caused by a mysteriously loosened crankshaft pully. Also had ten mysteriously loosed lugnuts on the rear wheels, not that those slowed me down.
A bad O2 sensor.
And a dropped valve seat.
...And YES I had to add alot of weight and I did jokingly bitch about it a little before and afterwards. ...But, I didn't whine, bitch, moan, cry (I'll leave those things to you) and petition for the rules to be changed to accomodate me no matter how much it pleases you to assume.
BTW, please answer my last post. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
Besides, DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE IN AN UNLIMITED CLASS WITH LT1s??? Heck no, I'd rather be up against only LS1s. As usual, you're just trying to stir the pot. <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Joe, you make it sound like my adding weight back to my car brought me all the way from 10.06 to 10.43 (actually, all things considered I was WELL pleased with being the second fastest NA LS1 there.) When in fact you know that I had...
A new TH-350 transmission with a NON-working transbrake.
A 2.52 1st gear (was 3.06 in the 4L60-E.)
Major knock retard caused by a mysteriously loosened crankshaft pully. Also had ten mysteriously loosed lugnuts on the rear wheels, not that those slowed me down.
A bad O2 sensor.
And a dropped valve seat.
...And YES I had to add alot of weight and I did jokingly bitch about it a little before and afterwards. ...But, I didn't whine, bitch, moan, cry (I'll leave those things to you) and petition for the rules to be changed to accomodate me no matter how much it pleases you to assume.
BTW, please answer my last post. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
01-04-2002, 10:36 AM
#85
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? This thread has taken more turns then a Nascar race.... <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Here is my .02 worth and I don't need change.
I have to say I agree that if the tire is stamped DOT its a a DOT tire class. If you want to exclude ET streets and QTP's you need to make it a drag radial class.
Stock block should be changed to production block this would make it more clear on including the iron blocks. But would exclude the C-5R blocks. It would include the LT1/L98 blocks but exclude rocket blocks which I think is a good thing.
The weight rule is all relative and I don't know a racer in the world who wouldn't want some rule changed in his favor. This is why I think eventually the NFRA is going to have to run some index classes. The only other thing is John would have to come up with many more class variations which in this stage of the NFRA is not really practical becuase of car count. I would rather watch 4-6 classes with 16 car fields then 8-12 with 8 car fields....
On the subject of the trannies. I know John Stated A4's and T56's..... BUT if you are going to alow early cars with EFI shouldn't they be allowed to run the trannies OEM to the chassis also? So in theory a 67 Camaro can run a glide, th350, M22, th400.... etc... A third gen could run a th350, 700, T-5 etc
Not trying to stir the pot like some just my observations. Happy motoring. <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
I have to say I agree that if the tire is stamped DOT its a a DOT tire class. If you want to exclude ET streets and QTP's you need to make it a drag radial class.
Stock block should be changed to production block this would make it more clear on including the iron blocks. But would exclude the C-5R blocks. It would include the LT1/L98 blocks but exclude rocket blocks which I think is a good thing.
The weight rule is all relative and I don't know a racer in the world who wouldn't want some rule changed in his favor. This is why I think eventually the NFRA is going to have to run some index classes. The only other thing is John would have to come up with many more class variations which in this stage of the NFRA is not really practical becuase of car count. I would rather watch 4-6 classes with 16 car fields then 8-12 with 8 car fields....
On the subject of the trannies. I know John Stated A4's and T56's..... BUT if you are going to alow early cars with EFI shouldn't they be allowed to run the trannies OEM to the chassis also? So in theory a 67 Camaro can run a glide, th350, M22, th400.... etc... A third gen could run a th350, 700, T-5 etc
Not trying to stir the pot like some just my observations. Happy motoring. <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
01-04-2002, 11:21 AM
#86
LS1Tech Co-Founder
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? Indexed classes are highly unlikely.
Joe Kizzire, I kind of expect you to more of a leader in constructive ideas rather than how you act in some of these threads. Steve Sanders (Colonel) had told me on numerous occasions after NFRA 2001 that he would still plan to attend, but probably not compete. My desire for a lower raceweight is based on talking to a larger universe of people.
We ran 8 classes at NFRA 2001.
We hope for a 200 car count at the next event.
We'd like to swing two dates, but it's a lot of money to put out there in track deposits.
Just as an FYI, tracks like RCR are like $12,000-$14,000 for two days. That is a typical range for many tracks.
We have found one track so far that is well below that range. If there any other tracks that you know are well below that range let me know ASAP.
Joe Kizzire, I kind of expect you to more of a leader in constructive ideas rather than how you act in some of these threads. Steve Sanders (Colonel) had told me on numerous occasions after NFRA 2001 that he would still plan to attend, but probably not compete. My desire for a lower raceweight is based on talking to a larger universe of people.
We ran 8 classes at NFRA 2001.
We hope for a 200 car count at the next event.
We'd like to swing two dates, but it's a lot of money to put out there in track deposits.
Just as an FYI, tracks like RCR are like $12,000-$14,000 for two days. That is a typical range for many tracks.
We have found one track so far that is well below that range. If there any other tracks that you know are well below that range let me know ASAP.
01-04-2002, 11:53 AM
#87
Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? you need to try and contact NPR in Baton rouge..super nice track. www.noproblemraceway.com I don't know how much but I knwo for a 8 hour day its 1500.
Tim
Tim
01-04-2002, 08:51 PM
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? [quote]Originally posted by Joe Kizzire:
<strong>I just had a happy thought for you "Extreme" guys....
9.99 and you got to have a 10 point cage. Enjoy <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well this is one I have to agree with. I spent alot of time and $ making my car 9 second NHRA legal.
<strong>I just had a happy thought for you "Extreme" guys....
9.99 and you got to have a 10 point cage. Enjoy <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well this is one I have to agree with. I spent alot of time and $ making my car 9 second NHRA legal.
01-05-2002, 05:06 PM
#92
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? [quote]Originally posted by Colonel:
[qb]I NEVER pushed John or Chris for a 3000 lb class. Like I said before, it's makes hardly a difference to me if I bring home a trophy or not. I'm there for the good times and the timeslips. I told John that regardless of the rules I would make exhibition runs. No racing for me. I might get beat and that would make me look bad.
Besides, DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE IN AN UNLIMITED CLASS WITH LT1s??? Heck no, I'd rather be up against only LS1s weighing 300lbs more. There's no way I'll race on a level playing field agains other F-body's. Getting beat is intirely to hard on my manly ego.
Joe, you are right about my adding weight back to my car. It brought me all the way from 10.06 to 10.43.
My engine had major knock retard caused by a loosened crankshaft pully bolt that MTI failed to tighten when my car was at Houston the week pryor. The reason for the repair work was they tried to put a 2.100 peg in a 2.080 hole. Also I had ten loose lugnuts on the rear wheels because I did not check them before I ran. I just told everyone it was sabatoge that way I would not look bad. I also had a bad O2 sensor a dropped valve seat.
...And YES I had to add alot of weight and I did bitch about it alot before and afterwards. ...But, I've been crying, whineing, bitchin, moaning and petition for the rules to be changed to accomodate me no matter how much it hurts other racers.
BTW, please answer my last post.
<hr></blockquote>
Whats to answer???? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">
[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Joe Kizzire ]</p>
[qb]I NEVER pushed John or Chris for a 3000 lb class. Like I said before, it's makes hardly a difference to me if I bring home a trophy or not. I'm there for the good times and the timeslips. I told John that regardless of the rules I would make exhibition runs. No racing for me. I might get beat and that would make me look bad.
Besides, DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE IN AN UNLIMITED CLASS WITH LT1s??? Heck no, I'd rather be up against only LS1s weighing 300lbs more. There's no way I'll race on a level playing field agains other F-body's. Getting beat is intirely to hard on my manly ego.
Joe, you are right about my adding weight back to my car. It brought me all the way from 10.06 to 10.43.
My engine had major knock retard caused by a loosened crankshaft pully bolt that MTI failed to tighten when my car was at Houston the week pryor. The reason for the repair work was they tried to put a 2.100 peg in a 2.080 hole. Also I had ten loose lugnuts on the rear wheels because I did not check them before I ran. I just told everyone it was sabatoge that way I would not look bad. I also had a bad O2 sensor a dropped valve seat.
...And YES I had to add alot of weight and I did bitch about it alot before and afterwards. ...But, I've been crying, whineing, bitchin, moaning and petition for the rules to be changed to accomodate me no matter how much it hurts other racers.
BTW, please answer my last post.
<hr></blockquote>
Whats to answer???? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">
[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Joe Kizzire ]</p>
01-05-2002, 06:30 PM
#93
TECH Senior Member
Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? Sorry, had the wrong thread. <img src="gr_emb.gif" border="0"> What's to answer?...
"Goodness Joe, who pissed in your Christmas stocking? You mind telling me what your hostility towards me is all about? What the hell have I ever done to you??? I've helped you when I could. I've congratulated you when you've done well. I've let bygones be bygones. I've complimented you on your very nice car. I've been nothing but nice to you the few times we've briefly met. ...And what do I get?"
And a really good one from this thread...
"DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE IN AN UNLIMITED CLASS WITH LT1s???"
Think Joe. Does it really add up or are you just going to believe whatever you want to believe?
[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
"Goodness Joe, who pissed in your Christmas stocking? You mind telling me what your hostility towards me is all about? What the hell have I ever done to you??? I've helped you when I could. I've congratulated you when you've done well. I've let bygones be bygones. I've complimented you on your very nice car. I've been nothing but nice to you the few times we've briefly met. ...And what do I get?"
And a really good one from this thread...
"DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE IN AN UNLIMITED CLASS WITH LT1s???"
Think Joe. Does it really add up or are you just going to believe whatever you want to believe?
[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
01-05-2002, 06:47 PM
#94
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? [quote]Originally posted by mikey:
<strong>
Well this is one I have to agree with. I spent alot of time and $ making my car 9 second NHRA legal.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mikey's right on this one for sure. If you want to run with the big dogs you better be legal. I think the tech on the unlimited cars should be very extensive. We don't need anybody getting hurt due to lack of saftey equipment.
<strong>
Well this is one I have to agree with. I spent alot of time and $ making my car 9 second NHRA legal.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mikey's right on this one for sure. If you want to run with the big dogs you better be legal. I think the tech on the unlimited cars should be very extensive. We don't need anybody getting hurt due to lack of saftey equipment.
01-05-2002, 07:02 PM
#95
TECH Senior Member
Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? True, if we can spend the the money to save a few pounds with a chromoly K-member (for example) we can certainly spend the money to be safe.
[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>
01-05-2002, 11:39 PM
#96
Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? I have also pushed hard for ALL car to be legal for the times the run with in at least a tenth.
Many people want to go to tracks that will not push safety...I do not want to be on the same track as them.
I am in the middle of a motor build up and to be honest am wating on the rules for a few thing's. Out of the Four LT1/4 motors we have only one of them is "Stock" and it is a Vette create motor.
I like the stock Trans rule also <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> This leaves the TH200 Lock-up open for 3rd gen cars <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> BUT NO TH350 or TH400 as they were never offered in a third gen.
I like the weight rules so far. Just waiting for the rest of the rules to come out so I can pick a class. I decided not to stroke my car and give myself more classes to race my daily driver in. I may pick N/A or P/A or Both we will see.
Keep up the good work guy's.
[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: TwoFast4Lv ]</p>
Many people want to go to tracks that will not push safety...I do not want to be on the same track as them.
I am in the middle of a motor build up and to be honest am wating on the rules for a few thing's. Out of the Four LT1/4 motors we have only one of them is "Stock" and it is a Vette create motor.
I like the stock Trans rule also <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> This leaves the TH200 Lock-up open for 3rd gen cars <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> BUT NO TH350 or TH400 as they were never offered in a third gen.
I like the weight rules so far. Just waiting for the rest of the rules to come out so I can pick a class. I decided not to stroke my car and give myself more classes to race my daily driver in. I may pick N/A or P/A or Both we will see.
Keep up the good work guy's.
[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: TwoFast4Lv ]</p>
01-06-2002, 03:13 PM
#97
TECH Senior Member
Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? [quote]Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>Sorry, had the wrong thread. <img src="gr_emb.gif" border="0"> What's to answer?...
"Goodness Joe, who pissed in your Christmas stocking? You mind telling me what your hostility towards me is all about? What the hell have I ever done to you??? I've helped you when I could. I've congratulated you when you've done well. I've let bygones be bygones. I've complimented you on your very nice car. I've been nothing but nice to you the few times we've briefly met. ...And what do I get?"
And a really good one from this thread...
"DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE IN AN UNLIMITED CLASS WITH LT1s???"
Think Joe. Does it really add up or are you just going to believe whatever you want to believe?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just bringing these questions to the top for good 'ole Joe again. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
<strong>Sorry, had the wrong thread. <img src="gr_emb.gif" border="0"> What's to answer?...
"Goodness Joe, who pissed in your Christmas stocking? You mind telling me what your hostility towards me is all about? What the hell have I ever done to you??? I've helped you when I could. I've congratulated you when you've done well. I've let bygones be bygones. I've complimented you on your very nice car. I've been nothing but nice to you the few times we've briefly met. ...And what do I get?"
And a really good one from this thread...
"DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT I WOULD WANT TO BE IN AN UNLIMITED CLASS WITH LT1s???"
Think Joe. Does it really add up or are you just going to believe whatever you want to believe?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just bringing these questions to the top for good 'ole Joe again. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
01-07-2002, 12:17 AM
#98
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Re: Did We Ever Decide on NFRA Weight? Ramblin' on... Please correct me if wrong.
What's with the "stock trans" rule? Maybe for a "showroom stock" class, but for a class that allows 12-bolts, or any other kind of "reliability" mods, it seems odd.
You are not going to get more power running a TH350/400 trans or a Jericho are you? These are mod's people do to increase reliability. Bolt-on high-stall engines have been know to torch the A4 trans, and modified engines certainly will.
To make a rule that outlaws using a stronger "drag oriented" transmission will just allow for more cars to go home early.
Or are there other reasons?
BTW - Aren't the torque-convertors everyone is using from a different transmission? I'm not an A4 guy, but I thought a high-stall convertor was from a different, smaller transmission, then modified. Or am I wrong?
What's with the "stock trans" rule? Maybe for a "showroom stock" class, but for a class that allows 12-bolts, or any other kind of "reliability" mods, it seems odd.
You are not going to get more power running a TH350/400 trans or a Jericho are you? These are mod's people do to increase reliability. Bolt-on high-stall engines have been know to torch the A4 trans, and modified engines certainly will.
To make a rule that outlaws using a stronger "drag oriented" transmission will just allow for more cars to go home early.
Or are there other reasons?
BTW - Aren't the torque-convertors everyone is using from a different transmission? I'm not an A4 guy, but I thought a high-stall convertor was from a different, smaller transmission, then modified. Or am I wrong?