Advice needed to hook on no prep concrete - fbody 4th gen
12-02-2020, 08:39 AM
#24
What kind of short time's are other's running on that track?
It does not make any sense, with all the stuff you have done to not be at least into 1.7's, even on a really bad surface.
If everyone is running the same 60's as your's, with similar susp mod's, then I can understand it.
It does not make any sense, with all the stuff you have done to not be at least into 1.7's, even on a really bad surface.
If everyone is running the same 60's as your's, with similar susp mod's, then I can understand it.
Last weeks final round was my car (1.94s 60ft) and a Challenger 392 2012+- with Hoosiers (1.98s 60ft)
All RWDs have crappy 60fts
The AWDs have the exact same 60ft that they should be making. (comparing Audis RS6 and EVOs)
Let me take those measurements Heyfred
BTW the vikings were set this time to 2 clicks of compression
12-02-2020, 09:24 AM
#25
What are you using for ECM, boost control, etc? We always run tapered timing and boost ramps on no prep (heck even on glue), you can do it via MPH, front vs rear wheel speed, driveshaft speed etc.. If you are just clobbering the tire with a ton of power from the hit not much will make it hook.
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Johnny_M (12-02-2020)
12-02-2020, 08:03 PM
#26
If you want it to hook good and leave on 850HP and be all in by 4 seconds on the tire you already have on no prep. 950 if its prepped. Get rid of the long torque arm. Get a short one. Put a brake on the trans. Get rid of the lowering crap. Get a complete set of Afco, or even better Menscer DA coil over shocks. The vikings will not keep your front end down once it starts hooking.You will need the adjust-ability of the coil overs to set the ride height to achieve the weight transfer your looking for. You can't have the car so low that the rear control arms are level or going down hill from the axle to the mount. You don't want to throw weight in the car unless you can't achieve the corner weights needed. The coil overs will get you where you need to be. There really is a lot to it, and really no one size fits all. That is why you need as much adjust-ability as you can get.
That recipe nets a 1.29 60 on no prep leaving at 4500 off the break and a 1.19 60 on a prepped at a 5500 leave in the same car you have at 3350 race weight.
That recipe nets a 1.29 60 on no prep leaving at 4500 off the break and a 1.19 60 on a prepped at a 5500 leave in the same car you have at 3350 race weight.
07-05-2021, 09:43 PM
#29
07-05-2021, 09:49 PM
#30
Real quick cheat sheet the front. Front level to 1/2 in higher than the rear. Soft spring 100-125lbs. Shock compressed to where only 1in. of the rod is showing in the front and 2in. In the back. Longest stroke you can use...keeping the car as low as you can get it without suspension bind.
Once you have the above stuff done we can help you a little better.
Weight on the rear works extremely well on high powered cars. On yours I would say as low as you can get it above the axel and then move it back an inch at a time and see how it reacts. Start with 50lbs
Once you have the above stuff done we can help you a little better.
Weight on the rear works extremely well on high powered cars. On yours I would say as low as you can get it above the axel and then move it back an inch at a time and see how it reacts. Start with 50lbs
05-31-2022, 10:20 PM
#31
Many of your comments helped me finding out what was wrong.
First of all the height of the front vs the height of the back. In the front I had (with stock springs) 29 tire in the rear and 26s in the front... the car was with all the nose down. ... So right now I'm having some 27s front skinnies coming to Guatemala to replace the 26 front skinnies.
Second of all, I need some adjustability of the height in the front, and some good shocks. So i bought (with a really tight budget) some SA Strange shocks. 14 inch hyperco springs with 300 rating due to the extra weight of the turbo (and some weight reduced thanks to the AC delete and tubular kmember). I really wanted some DA in the front but this are rough times.
I'll correct the ride height so the nose is 1/2 inch higher, and come back with the results.
Any advice on where to start with the the valve settings on the single adjustable front strange and DA viking warriors on the rear?
First of all the height of the front vs the height of the back. In the front I had (with stock springs) 29 tire in the rear and 26s in the front... the car was with all the nose down. ... So right now I'm having some 27s front skinnies coming to Guatemala to replace the 26 front skinnies.
Second of all, I need some adjustability of the height in the front, and some good shocks. So i bought (with a really tight budget) some SA Strange shocks. 14 inch hyperco springs with 300 rating due to the extra weight of the turbo (and some weight reduced thanks to the AC delete and tubular kmember). I really wanted some DA in the front but this are rough times.
I'll correct the ride height so the nose is 1/2 inch higher, and come back with the results.
Any advice on where to start with the the valve settings on the single adjustable front strange and DA viking warriors on the rear?
06-05-2022, 07:37 PM
#32
There should be someone ring in to help. I havent really messed with vikings with factory valving especially singles in the front in a no prep surface. Make sure you have a stiff wall slick though. The back tire is going to get hit hard and then the front end will come down pretty fast with a single. The double in the rear will help with how hard the tire gets hit
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rogergm92 (06-05-2022)
06-09-2022, 08:35 PM
#33
Real quick cheat sheet the front. Front level to 1/2 in higher than the rear. Soft spring 100-125lbs. Shock compressed to where only 1in. of the rod is showing in the front and 2in. In the back. Longest stroke you can use...keeping the car as low as you can get it without suspension bind.
Once you have the above stuff done we can help you a little better.
Weight on the rear works extremely well on high powered cars. On yours I would say as low as you can get it above the axel and then move it back an inch at a time and see how it reacts. Start with 50lbs
Once you have the above stuff done we can help you a little better.
Weight on the rear works extremely well on high powered cars. On yours I would say as low as you can get it above the axel and then move it back an inch at a time and see how it reacts. Start with 50lbs
Thanks man
06-09-2022, 10:54 PM
#34
Ok here is the plan, if you have time to read it will be long. First I'll post the new formula and changes (changes are in strikethrough), action plan and finally in a couple of weeks I'll post the results
The new setup
The new setup
- 4th gen fbody camaro (sloppy turbo, 4L80e, 5.3 LS,
3200stall3700rpm stall) - LCA relocation brackets ->
lowest position - no front sway bar
- Rear double adjustable viking shocks B223 ->
4 compression clicks, 8 rebound, BMR rear lowering springs 160-lb/instock rear z28 springs- adjustable panhard bar
28x10r15 Hoosier bias ply, 3 sec burn out, 14psi, 6 months old29x11r15 bias ply26x4.527x4.5 front bias ply- adjustable long torque arm (the long one), -2 degrees pinion angle
- no interiors
- Torque arm relocation bracket for 4L80e ->
almost highest position3rd hole top to bottom, almost in the middle - Used to have front lowering springs, I just ditched them and came back to the stock front springs,
stock orange shocks- Front single reboung adjustable strange shocks with 14in 300lb springs
stockrear end coming from a manual t56 fbody -> now with 4.10
Sloppy 3rd gear spool, it is too much power, Hooking until the 330ft mark- Transbrake, at the same RPM, I dont want to preload the car
Foot braking to 2500rpm but I still dont hook (with 2 step to get 1psi of boost)For both I dont see any squat or antisquat, nor the nose coming up- I will loosen all compression and rebound and see what naturally the suspension does
- Hot weather always (Guatemala raceway)
- Humid, track is just 17 miles from the shore, almost sea level
- POLISHED Concrete, the same as when they put glue but without it
- NO PREP, no rubber, no glue. Originally, 60ft of 2.0s before the changes. Fbodys on radials put 2.2s
- add 50lbs to SPRUNG weight in the lowest position of the trunk
- lower the tires to 12psi when hot
- Adjust front height to about an inch higher than the rear (before I was nose down because I couldnt adjust it and the 26in skinnies where in reality 25.X inches)
- Regarding the whole suspension positions, I'll try to give a more neutral antisquat, not shooting a lot of antisquat like before.
- The LCAs in line with the horizontal line (or a little bit pointing upwards, thats going to be the middle position)
- The long torque arm position in the 3rd hole from top to bottom, before it was in the 2nd hole from top to bottom . 7 holes in total. Yes I know I have to find my center of mass and draw the antisquat line... etc etc etc..
- Looking at the shock travel length, adjust them to have them compressed and just showing 1-1.5in of the rod in the front and 2-2.5in in the back . (Or at least try to have it in the middle of the travel length)
- Loosen all the shocks and look what the car does naturally
- In the rear if it squats rapidly, try to compensate with compression. If it lifts or antisquats rapidly, give more rebound. Look at the tireshake and sidewall ...
- In the front if it goes up too fast, tighten the rebound
01-02-2023, 04:01 PM
#36
Did all that without adding weight (didn't found a safe way to do it, I had some spare batteries laying in the trunk but my friends told me the acid could kill me in a crash...)
the best I got was a 1.9s 60ft NOT prepped. It definitely worked because we did the same to a friends LT1 and shaved into the 2.0s unprepped too.
BTW looking at other peoples 60ft ... no one is making 1.0-1.4s on the prepped side.
Later I went to play with the prepped side, loosen all the front shocks, went little by little until the front end lifted and came back slowly. The back isnt squating or antisquating ... it is on point, maybe to my taste I'll add more anti squat and not leave it on 0.
I'll come back with more results in this difficult track, but in the next months Ill be taking weight from the front with the RSM front tubular kit. and adding that weight to the back.
The front springs I ordered are too weak, they are like 60% bolted up. But with the tubular front front end it might come to a 50%
the best I got was a 1.9s 60ft NOT prepped. It definitely worked because we did the same to a friends LT1 and shaved into the 2.0s unprepped too.
BTW looking at other peoples 60ft ... no one is making 1.0-1.4s on the prepped side.
Later I went to play with the prepped side, loosen all the front shocks, went little by little until the front end lifted and came back slowly. The back isnt squating or antisquating ... it is on point, maybe to my taste I'll add more anti squat and not leave it on 0.
I'll come back with more results in this difficult track, but in the next months Ill be taking weight from the front with the RSM front tubular kit. and adding that weight to the back.
The front springs I ordered are too weak, they are like 60% bolted up. But with the tubular front front end it might come to a 50%
01-03-2023, 02:32 PM
#38
I didnt changed to the short version (Im still using the long with the relocation) because the front end isnt trying to make a wheelie. The day that I see it tries to wheelie, definetely Ill change it to the short one
01-03-2023, 03:31 PM
#39
Thanks for the info I’m having issues getting mine to hook. It’s Procharged making 570 at the tire. I just took the T56 out and put a 400 turbo from FTI eith a FTI converter haven’t got to the track yet. But with a t56 I tan 7.50 1/4 with a 60’ of 1.77. I got qa1 double adjustable front and qa1 - single adjustable rear with long torque arm.