Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
#1
Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
OK let's hear it
I know my T56 won't last forever.
I'm looking at built 400's right now, but would like to add OD to it. I drive my car ALOT on the street. Weekend "outings" can end up being 200 mile nights without much effort. And blasts on the highway are not uncommon.
Now, with all the goodies, converter and OD i'm looking at a good chunk of change going w/ a TH400.
I can go with a clutch type Jerico, down-shiftable, setup the ratio's i want and get 4th as my OD. The bolt pattern is such that i can get a real bellhousing in there and have room for a real clutch. I'm sure RAM can build me something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I'm not concerned about tearing into it every year, i replace clutches about as often as i change oil sometimes.
I just need a trans that repeatable and can hold 900+ lb*ft at the motor.
I know my T56 won't last forever.
I'm looking at built 400's right now, but would like to add OD to it. I drive my car ALOT on the street. Weekend "outings" can end up being 200 mile nights without much effort. And blasts on the highway are not uncommon.
Now, with all the goodies, converter and OD i'm looking at a good chunk of change going w/ a TH400.
I can go with a clutch type Jerico, down-shiftable, setup the ratio's i want and get 4th as my OD. The bolt pattern is such that i can get a real bellhousing in there and have room for a real clutch. I'm sure RAM can build me something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I'm not concerned about tearing into it every year, i replace clutches about as often as i change oil sometimes.
I just need a trans that repeatable and can hold 900+ lb*ft at the motor.
#2
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Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
Check out the price for all that for the Jerico and then check the price for the TH400. The 400 is alot less. Plus there is the debate right now that the TH400 will run faster than the Jerico. From the arguements i have seen they are right. But just check on the price first cause i heard its rediculously expensive.
#3
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Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
IMHO, the TH400/GV OD would be the most trouble free setup. A properly prepared TH400 would be absolutely bulletproof. You could literally put it in and forget about it.
#4
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
Well
The standard DR4 is based priced at $2650, no cost to add the downshift capability.
While a built 400 can range from $1300 to $1500, add some coin for the converter. Then the OD is another $2k.
So the jerico will end up being $3500 with the bellhousing, clutch, shifter and trans.
While the 400 and OD is gonna be alittle over $3k with the shifter, OD, converter and trans.
Doesn't seem to unreasonable either way.
The standard DR4 is based priced at $2650, no cost to add the downshift capability.
While a built 400 can range from $1300 to $1500, add some coin for the converter. Then the OD is another $2k.
So the jerico will end up being $3500 with the bellhousing, clutch, shifter and trans.
While the 400 and OD is gonna be alittle over $3k with the shifter, OD, converter and trans.
Doesn't seem to unreasonable either way.
#5
LS1 Tech Administrator
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Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
OK, this is WAY out in left field, but it's been done on turbo cars making BIG power...treat the 3 speed TH400 like a 2 speed powerglide with an overdrive. That means running something like a 2.73 gear. Now before you laugh, look at the ratios.
Powerglide with 4.10 gears:
1.76 first gear x 4.10 = 7.22 starting ratio
1.0 second gear x 4.10 = 4.10 finish line gear
TH400 with 2.73 gears:
2.48 first gear x 2.73 = 6.77 starting ratio
2.75 first gear x 2.73 = 7.50 starting ratio
1.48 second gear x 2.73 = 4.04 finish line gear
1.0 third gear (equivalent to a .68 overdrive)
The gear vendors idea is OK, but a 4L80 would be a more complete kit and weigh less (if you want 4 speeds).
An automatic will keep the turbos on the boil at all times, especially if you use a transbrake.
Powerglide with 4.10 gears:
1.76 first gear x 4.10 = 7.22 starting ratio
1.0 second gear x 4.10 = 4.10 finish line gear
TH400 with 2.73 gears:
2.48 first gear x 2.73 = 6.77 starting ratio
2.75 first gear x 2.73 = 7.50 starting ratio
1.48 second gear x 2.73 = 4.04 finish line gear
1.0 third gear (equivalent to a .68 overdrive)
The gear vendors idea is OK, but a 4L80 would be a more complete kit and weigh less (if you want 4 speeds).
An automatic will keep the turbos on the boil at all times, especially if you use a transbrake.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#6
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
The transbrake is one Pro for the auto.
I'd love to leave off big boost.
But, i'm guessing the Jerico is far lighter than either option (400 W/ OD or 4l80). I know the 80 can be built for big power, but what about manual VB and brake??
I'd love to leave off big boost.
But, i'm guessing the Jerico is far lighter than either option (400 W/ OD or 4l80). I know the 80 can be built for big power, but what about manual VB and brake??
#7
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Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
You might want to look into a 200R4 too. The Turbo Brick guys are running them into the 9's. They're less to have redone than a 4L60E, but a little more than a 400.
Just an option.
Just an option.
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#8
FormerVendor
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Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
I vote for the Jerico. If you learn to downshift properly, Then you will have no problem. there is a thread in the drivetrain section going about Jericos.
Matt, I have another thing that I need to talk to you about as well- trans related. Ill email you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Matt, I have another thing that I need to talk to you about as well- trans related. Ill email you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
#9
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Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
I've seen manual 80E's for sale before. Evidently no one makes a brake for it though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
John
John
#10
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
one thing you might want to look into is something that car craft covered a while back. They called it the poor mans jerico. It consists of a pro-shifted super t-10 that can hold 1000 hp. They used a ford toploader but but the super t-10 can be setup the same way. It was setup with the dogrings and the usual stuff to proshift it. I'd give liberty a call consiering it would cost 1,500 tops.
#11
LS1 Tech Administrator
iTrader: (14)
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
G-Force makes a most excellent 5 speed too. Downshiftable in 1st and 2nd gear. No clutch needed for any of the upshifts though. Muy nice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#12
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
If you're seriously wanting an OD, you should look into the 200-4r. I've had one that held up running 10.30's and when last used in a daily driver, held easily. If ya want more info, contact me as well as WeatherGuy.
#13
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by It'llrun:
<strong>If you're seriously wanting an OD, you should look into the 200-4r. I've had one that held up running 10.30's and when last used in a daily driver, held easily. If ya want more info, contact me as well as WeatherGuy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd rather stay away from the 200. I know alot of buick guys going fast that have all gone to 400's because of the headaches.
This trans will see 150+ traps at more than likely 3200 race weight. I just don't want to spin 5500 on the highway cruising to the "spot" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<strong>If you're seriously wanting an OD, you should look into the 200-4r. I've had one that held up running 10.30's and when last used in a daily driver, held easily. If ya want more info, contact me as well as WeatherGuy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd rather stay away from the 200. I know alot of buick guys going fast that have all gone to 400's because of the headaches.
This trans will see 150+ traps at more than likely 3200 race weight. I just don't want to spin 5500 on the highway cruising to the "spot" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
#14
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
Send gear sets and shafts 1 through 4 of the T56 to Liberty to be Pro-Shifted.
Better practice your double clutching if you go this route though; NO SYNCHROS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Better practice your double clutching if you go this route though; NO SYNCHROS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
#15
TECH Fanatic
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by y2khawk:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by It'llrun:
<strong>If you're seriously wanting an OD, you should look into the 200-4r. I've had one that held up running 10.30's and when last used in a daily driver, held easily. If ya want more info, contact me as well as WeatherGuy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd rather stay away from the 200. I know alot of buick guys going fast that have all gone to 400's because of the headaches.
This trans will see 150+ traps at more than likely 3200 race weight. I just don't want to spin 5500 on the highway cruising to the "spot" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The one I am running is good to at least 900+ ft-lbs and carries a warranty. I would agree with you that there have been some issues with the 200-4R - it *really* depends upon who built it. Kurtz built mine, and so far this thing has rocked. But definitely not cheap at all.
BTW - nice twin-turbo setup. Thought hard about doing that, and may still some time in the future. How's the gas mileage with it?
Greg
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by It'llrun:
<strong>If you're seriously wanting an OD, you should look into the 200-4r. I've had one that held up running 10.30's and when last used in a daily driver, held easily. If ya want more info, contact me as well as WeatherGuy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd rather stay away from the 200. I know alot of buick guys going fast that have all gone to 400's because of the headaches.
This trans will see 150+ traps at more than likely 3200 race weight. I just don't want to spin 5500 on the highway cruising to the "spot" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The one I am running is good to at least 900+ ft-lbs and carries a warranty. I would agree with you that there have been some issues with the 200-4R - it *really* depends upon who built it. Kurtz built mine, and so far this thing has rocked. But definitely not cheap at all.
BTW - nice twin-turbo setup. Thought hard about doing that, and may still some time in the future. How's the gas mileage with it?
Greg
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Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
do you suscribe to the blown fbody emailing list?
call up Doug Hegge who just finished a tall deck 375" TT motor that made 1000hp with ignition issues
he researched a lot of manual options and ended up with a viper output shafted T56 i think
let me know if you need his email addy
call up Doug Hegge who just finished a tall deck 375" TT motor that made 1000hp with ignition issues
he researched a lot of manual options and ended up with a viper output shafted T56 i think
let me know if you need his email addy
#17
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ever thought abouty a Liberty/ G-Force.
Since you can get an auto or a manual that will both take the power , it's more a matter of choice.
Of course an auto will let you build boost of the line, but i read a quote from a turbo expert that said when you really wanna fly , a manual is the best route. With an auto you can build boost , but with a manual he said within a short amount of time after clutch engagement engagement, you will have full boost in a more linear fashion.
It also depends on if you race in a class or for money, or for just personal use. (If just for personal use , you may not mind whatever time it takes to spool). An auto can often take to much time to build boost. You probably already know that's the main reason why the fastest turbo cars use the manuals (If they are allowed too). They are in a hurry to leave , cause the nitrous and blower cars ain't waintin for the turbo beast to spool with the auto. Lol. But you may just want some good times and not run in a class. An auto would be alright then. ( If you run for money though, just tell them you must be allowed to spool up first or the deal is of. Lol.)
Plus with the 2 step and retarding timing on launch you can build quite a bit of boost too.
I thought I heard an lt1 guy on on hear say he built over 15psi leaving the line with his manual.
<small>[ December 09, 2002, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Rpm2800 ]</small>
Since you can get an auto or a manual that will both take the power , it's more a matter of choice.
Of course an auto will let you build boost of the line, but i read a quote from a turbo expert that said when you really wanna fly , a manual is the best route. With an auto you can build boost , but with a manual he said within a short amount of time after clutch engagement engagement, you will have full boost in a more linear fashion.
It also depends on if you race in a class or for money, or for just personal use. (If just for personal use , you may not mind whatever time it takes to spool). An auto can often take to much time to build boost. You probably already know that's the main reason why the fastest turbo cars use the manuals (If they are allowed too). They are in a hurry to leave , cause the nitrous and blower cars ain't waintin for the turbo beast to spool with the auto. Lol. But you may just want some good times and not run in a class. An auto would be alright then. ( If you run for money though, just tell them you must be allowed to spool up first or the deal is of. Lol.)
Plus with the 2 step and retarding timing on launch you can build quite a bit of boost too.
I thought I heard an lt1 guy on on hear say he built over 15psi leaving the line with his manual.
<small>[ December 09, 2002, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Rpm2800 ]</small>
#18
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Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
Saw a Turbo Buick running 8.80s @ 155 a couple weeks ago, not sure what tranny, but I'd guess the 200.
I'd go with a Carl Rossler built 400, and get the OD unit if you really think you need it. You could always add it on afterwards of the TH400 doesn't give you the top end you want.
One other thing, with a trans-brake, you can built some mean boost....believe me on this one...how do you think these Buick's run so damn fast?
I'd go with a Carl Rossler built 400, and get the OD unit if you really think you need it. You could always add it on afterwards of the TH400 doesn't give you the top end you want.
One other thing, with a trans-brake, you can built some mean boost....believe me on this one...how do you think these Buick's run so damn fast?
#19
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
From my understanding, none of the add on OD's for the 400 can take full throttle. Maybe thats not an issue for ya if you just want to use it to cuise to the spot..but just wanted to make sure ya knew it!
Chris
Chris
#20
Re: Million Dollar Question:TH400 w/ GVOD or Jerico
Auto's are no fun - get the Jerico. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> I can't stand the thought of NOT banging gears, even if an auto is a hair faster...
Although, you wouldn't use the clutch to shift the Jerico right? And with your TH400 you'd probably use a manual vavlebody... hmmmm...
<small>[ December 09, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: bigSS ]</small>
Although, you wouldn't use the clutch to shift the Jerico right? And with your TH400 you'd probably use a manual vavlebody... hmmmm...
<small>[ December 09, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: bigSS ]</small>