What is the correct order to set up suspension?
09-08-2005 | 11:20 PM
#21
Originally Posted by next
The idea is to be on level ground, not try to level the car. There are benefits to front vs. rear ride height, but I wouldn't focus on that yet. You want the car on level ground 'cause that's what the track will be like.
If you have adjustable LCAs you can start with squaring the rear end by measuring from the front of the door jamb to the center of the rim/axle. Simple as making both of the equal.
You do want a uphill rise in the LCAs but your only real adjustment is going be raising/lowering them in relocation brackets, so I don't know how 2* could be exact.
Not sure what you mean by get differential straight with the LCAs unless you are refering to squaring the rear.
Pinion angle you have sounds good.
A neutral alignment (most cars are set up for road crown) is great for a drag car.
Sounds like you have good handle on things. Don't forget to make small changes at the track so you can see the effect and know what is working better and what isn't. A good place to start would be to adjust tire pressure a little bit each pass and see the effects. Of course, I'm just stating what I've learned from Madman and look what that guy did to my bumper
If you have adjustable LCAs you can start with squaring the rear end by measuring from the front of the door jamb to the center of the rim/axle. Simple as making both of the equal.
You do want a uphill rise in the LCAs but your only real adjustment is going be raising/lowering them in relocation brackets, so I don't know how 2* could be exact.
Not sure what you mean by get differential straight with the LCAs unless you are refering to squaring the rear.
Pinion angle you have sounds good.
A neutral alignment (most cars are set up for road crown) is great for a drag car.
Sounds like you have good handle on things. Don't forget to make small changes at the track so you can see the effect and know what is working better and what isn't. A good place to start would be to adjust tire pressure a little bit each pass and see the effects. Of course, I'm just stating what I've learned from Madman and look what that guy did to my bumper
09-09-2005 | 07:13 AM
#22
Terry I like what you are doing. I wish everyone took as much time setting up their car.
Keep good notes of all your measurements and changes. Then change one thing at a time..
On the ride height issue of front to rear height I would rather see you lower the rear of the car to level it than raise the front. I know that isnt always possible but the higher you get the front the more air you trap underneath the car. This creates drag and also tries to pick up the car at speed which causes the car to move around.
Loudmouth get your car aligned by someone who has experience on cars BEFORE they came out with the computerized machines.
Tel them you want camber at 0, as much caster as you can get and then set toe. When you set toe make sure the car never toes out. Set toe at ride height, then raise the car till the front tires almost come off the ground and recheck, then pull the front end down like it is under hard braking. Reset toe. Make sure it is toed in some and never sees toeout.
Keep good notes of all your measurements and changes. Then change one thing at a time..
On the ride height issue of front to rear height I would rather see you lower the rear of the car to level it than raise the front. I know that isnt always possible but the higher you get the front the more air you trap underneath the car. This creates drag and also tries to pick up the car at speed which causes the car to move around.
Loudmouth get your car aligned by someone who has experience on cars BEFORE they came out with the computerized machines.
Tel them you want camber at 0, as much caster as you can get and then set toe. When you set toe make sure the car never toes out. Set toe at ride height, then raise the car till the front tires almost come off the ground and recheck, then pull the front end down like it is under hard braking. Reset toe. Make sure it is toed in some and never sees toeout.
09-09-2005 | 08:41 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
Hey Eric, if I want to get an alignment better for drag racing, what do I do, just go somewhere and say I want a neutral alignment? Are there specs I should give them that i'd find if I did a search? How can an alignment effect 60'?
You see a guy with a plumb bob and string, then he's your man. There's two places in Orlando that I've gone and know what there doing for alignment. As far as the effect, less rolling resistance = faster.
09-09-2005 | 09:31 AM
#24
The main thing a alignment will help is it will keep you from knocking down the wall at the track.
09-09-2005 | 09:32 AM
#25
Originally Posted by MADMAN
The main thing a alignment will help is it will keep you from knocking down the wall at the track.
09-09-2005 | 09:45 AM
#27
HumpinSS I looked at the videos you sent and they dont tell me much.
If you are going to video the car to see how it is working on the launch you need to be behind the car and off to one side. You need to look at the tires and the car. The front view doesnt tell alot.
If you are going to video the car to see how it is working on the launch you need to be behind the car and off to one side. You need to look at the tires and the car. The front view doesnt tell alot.
09-09-2005 | 10:05 AM
#28
great thread, subscribing.
my best 60's have been when i can tweak the suspension to just lift the front tires. not a big wheels up, just squat and go.
I'll have to recheck my alignment and see if i can lower the car some.
my best 60's have been when i can tweak the suspension to just lift the front tires. not a big wheels up, just squat and go.
I'll have to recheck my alignment and see if i can lower the car some.
09-09-2005 | 10:21 AM
#30
Originally Posted by MADMAN
HumpinSS I looked at the videos you sent and they dont tell me much.
If you are going to video the car to see how it is working on the launch you need to be behind the car and off to one side. You need to look at the tires and the car. The front view doesnt tell alot.
If you are going to video the car to see how it is working on the launch you need to be behind the car and off to one side. You need to look at the tires and the car. The front view doesnt tell alot.
Cool i will keep that in mind for the next time out at the track
09-09-2005 | 10:47 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Terry'sToy
adjust rear LCA's 2* uphill from rear to front of car, adjust diff side to side with panhard to centre diff. Use LCA's to get diff straight in the car, then last set-up pinion angle -2 to -3*.
BTW, great thread.
09-09-2005 | 10:48 AM
#32
Try this for video taping. It really helps, I also try and get down low to see more of the suspension working. Get up as close as possible for better clarity.
And people ask me why I don't drive the car, too much data I need to see while the car goes down the track.
It really helps, I also try and get down low to see more of the suspension working. Get up as close as possible for better clarity.And people ask me why I don't drive the car, too much data I need to see while the car goes down the track.
09-09-2005 | 11:05 AM
#33
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: victoria canada.
next, I would think the middle hole on the relocate brackets would be perfect for most people. The lowest hole might work if your car was lowered into the weeds. Thanks for the help.
Madman,
I'm keeping good notes on all of this, I keep a binder full of car info (like important threads and technical data) and every time slip.
I would have preferred to lower the rear of the car, but I raised the front because of the adjustable Hals. My other option was to cut the rear coils. I didn't want to do that at first. I would rather get adjustable rear springs (any suggestions).
I have the Spohn T/A, can I set it up like you set yours up. I'm not talking about the pinion angle here. I mean the angles of the bar itself and the forward attatchment point. I know the forward part of mine doesn't have the adjustability like yours, but I could make it that way. Cut,burn,weld
We always video tape like that. We even video other peoples cars and then show them in slow mo what is happening. They don't believe anything we suggest. You know how it is, you give some advice after you've been asked and then they think your a *****.
I on the other hand happen to listen to those who know what they are doing.
Thanks again for all your help.
PLEASE help me wreck my rear bumper.
Madman,
I'm keeping good notes on all of this, I keep a binder full of car info (like important threads and technical data) and every time slip.
I would have preferred to lower the rear of the car, but I raised the front because of the adjustable Hals. My other option was to cut the rear coils. I didn't want to do that at first. I would rather get adjustable rear springs (any suggestions).
I have the Spohn T/A, can I set it up like you set yours up. I'm not talking about the pinion angle here. I mean the angles of the bar itself and the forward attatchment point. I know the forward part of mine doesn't have the adjustability like yours, but I could make it that way. Cut,burn,weld
We always video tape like that. We even video other peoples cars and then show them in slow mo what is happening. They don't believe anything we suggest. You know how it is, you give some advice after you've been asked and then they think your a *****.
I on the other hand happen to listen to those who know what they are doing.
Thanks again for all your help.
PLEASE help me wreck my rear bumper.
09-09-2005 | 11:12 AM
#34
Originally Posted by Terry'sToy
PLEASE help me wreck my rear bumper.
Careful what you wish for! And get a set of SYA bars first.Great shot George.
More ramblings on my suspension opinions - Here's my .02 on a common notion about wanting the rear to "squat". Those that subscribe to this think that the car should squat and that means the body of the car should go down. If that were the case, then the rear shocks/springs compress and that would mean that the tires would be going up away from the track. Not a good idea when you are trying to plant the rear tires. If you look at George's video you'll actually see the tires going down, not the body.
09-09-2005 | 11:17 AM
#35
Originally Posted by MADMAN
Terry I like what you are doing. I wish everyone took as much time setting up their car.
Keep good notes of all your measurements and changes. Then change one thing at a time..
On the ride height issue of front to rear height I would rather see you lower the rear of the car to level it than raise the front. I know that isnt always possible but the higher you get the front the more air you trap underneath the car. This creates drag and also tries to pick up the car at speed which causes the car to move around.
Loudmouth get your car aligned by someone who has experience on cars BEFORE they came out with the computerized machines.
Tel them you want camber at 0, as much caster as you can get and then set toe. When you set toe make sure the car never toes out. Set toe at ride height, then raise the car till the front tires almost come off the ground and recheck, then pull the front end down like it is under hard braking. Reset toe. Make sure it is toed in some and never sees toeout.
Keep good notes of all your measurements and changes. Then change one thing at a time..
On the ride height issue of front to rear height I would rather see you lower the rear of the car to level it than raise the front. I know that isnt always possible but the higher you get the front the more air you trap underneath the car. This creates drag and also tries to pick up the car at speed which causes the car to move around.
Loudmouth get your car aligned by someone who has experience on cars BEFORE they came out with the computerized machines.
Tel them you want camber at 0, as much caster as you can get and then set toe. When you set toe make sure the car never toes out. Set toe at ride height, then raise the car till the front tires almost come off the ground and recheck, then pull the front end down like it is under hard braking. Reset toe. Make sure it is toed in some and never sees toeout.
09-09-2005 | 11:18 AM
#36
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: victoria canada.
kevredz,
I think Madman is the BEST guy to answer this, but here goes.
First I don't really think pre-load is the correct term, as setting up the pinion angle doesn't actually put any load on the diff or pinion, at least not in the resting position. The idea is to get the pinion pointed downhill to keep the pinion angle lined up with the driveshaft angle under hard acceleration which helps the car bite better off the line. Under hard acceleration it also puts less load on the U-joints, as they won't be under any sort of angular load. The driveshaft and pinion will be on the same plane.
I think Madman is the BEST guy to answer this, but here goes.
First I don't really think pre-load is the correct term, as setting up the pinion angle doesn't actually put any load on the diff or pinion, at least not in the resting position. The idea is to get the pinion pointed downhill to keep the pinion angle lined up with the driveshaft angle under hard acceleration which helps the car bite better off the line. Under hard acceleration it also puts less load on the U-joints, as they won't be under any sort of angular load. The driveshaft and pinion will be on the same plane.
09-09-2005 | 11:32 AM
#37
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: victoria canada.
next,
This is primarily what I am talking about when I said to Madman about people not accepting GOOD advice.
"More ramblings on my suspension opinions - Here's my .02 on a common notion about wanting the rear to "squat". Those that subscribe to this think that the car should squat and that means the body of the car should go down. If that were the case, then the rear shocks/springs compress and that would mean that the tires would be going up away from the track. Not a good idea when you are trying to plant the rear tires. If you look at George's video you'll actually see the tires going down, not the body."
Loudmouth,
I would try the 1-1.5* hole and do a couple passes, then try the other hole. I would suspect the 1-1.5 would be better, but I'm not sure just yet.
This is primarily what I am talking about when I said to Madman about people not accepting GOOD advice.
"More ramblings on my suspension opinions - Here's my .02 on a common notion about wanting the rear to "squat". Those that subscribe to this think that the car should squat and that means the body of the car should go down. If that were the case, then the rear shocks/springs compress and that would mean that the tires would be going up away from the track. Not a good idea when you are trying to plant the rear tires. If you look at George's video you'll actually see the tires going down, not the body."
Loudmouth,
I would try the 1-1.5* hole and do a couple passes, then try the other hole. I would suspect the 1-1.5 would be better, but I'm not sure just yet.
09-09-2005 | 11:36 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Terry'sToy
next,
This is primarily what I am talking about when I said to Madman about people not accepting GOOD advice.
"More ramblings on my suspension opinions - Here's my .02 on a common notion about wanting the rear to "squat". Those that subscribe to this think that the car should squat and that means the body of the car should go down. If that were the case, then the rear shocks/springs compress and that would mean that the tires would be going up away from the track. Not a good idea when you are trying to plant the rear tires. If you look at George's video you'll actually see the tires going down, not the body."
Loudmouth,
I would try the 1-1.5* hole and do a couple passes, then try the other hole. I would suspect the 1-1.5 would be better, but I'm not sure just yet.
This is primarily what I am talking about when I said to Madman about people not accepting GOOD advice.
"More ramblings on my suspension opinions - Here's my .02 on a common notion about wanting the rear to "squat". Those that subscribe to this think that the car should squat and that means the body of the car should go down. If that were the case, then the rear shocks/springs compress and that would mean that the tires would be going up away from the track. Not a good idea when you are trying to plant the rear tires. If you look at George's video you'll actually see the tires going down, not the body."
Loudmouth,
I would try the 1-1.5* hole and do a couple passes, then try the other hole. I would suspect the 1-1.5 would be better, but I'm not sure just yet.
Hey Brian, you recommended the 28x10.5S instead of the regular one's, right?
09-09-2005 | 11:43 AM
#39
Thread Starter
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: victoria canada.
Loudmouth,
did you measure the angle with your body weight in the car? When you sit in the car that will reduce the angle. So if you measured the car without weight in it, I would re-measure.
did you measure the angle with your body weight in the car? When you sit in the car that will reduce the angle. So if you measured the car without weight in it, I would re-measure.
09-09-2005 | 11:45 AM
#40
Originally Posted by Terry'sToy
kevredz,
I think Madman is the BEST guy to answer this, but here goes.
First I don't really think pre-load is the correct term, as setting up the pinion angle doesn't actually put any load on the diff or pinion, at least not in the resting position. The idea is to get the pinion pointed downhill to keep the pinion angle lined up with the driveshaft angle under hard acceleration which helps the car bite better off the line. Under hard acceleration it also puts less load on the U-joints, as they won't be under any sort of angular load. The driveshaft and pinion will be on the same plane.
I think Madman is the BEST guy to answer this, but here goes.
First I don't really think pre-load is the correct term, as setting up the pinion angle doesn't actually put any load on the diff or pinion, at least not in the resting position. The idea is to get the pinion pointed downhill to keep the pinion angle lined up with the driveshaft angle under hard acceleration which helps the car bite better off the line. Under hard acceleration it also puts less load on the U-joints, as they won't be under any sort of angular load. The driveshaft and pinion will be on the same plane.
So basically, having negative pinion angle in excess of what you need to obtain 0 degrees under hard acceleration is unnecessary?