Vortec5300

I will REITERATE... as to my driving prowess. The only thing I am not doing is the high Rs dump... I guess I have to suck it up and get a 12bolt and try it JUST to see if that fixes the issue but I still think the car should be going quicker then 87-88 in the 1/8 as is. To me it seems like the power is off, maybe its just due to the big hole in the power band. I will be finding another dyno to test on. Here in Houston there are MANY. If I could afford MTI I would just take the car to them and tell them to fix it, whatever it is, ofcourse I would have to take out a mortgage to finance them.

jerflash

let me just say to be able to get a m6 to go really fast in the 1/4 you have to beable to drive the **** out of it

me personaly i dont usually powershift because i dont need to really
12.38 @ 112 1.85 60 ft and that was with lid, catback, nitto only and stock wieght(3620 with me in it) i was launchin at 3500-4000 on nittos and the car was haulin ***
i was on a stock tune shiftin right before the limiter and i lifted every shift on that run but i also shift crazy fast so the nose done not drop one bit even on the 2-3 shift. reason for not powershiftin is the trans would lockup in 4th when i would do it but now that its rebuilt strong im still not to crazy about doing it

practice your shifting and see what rpm you car likes to be shifted at and the launch is very important...the higher you can launch without breakin loose the better

btw i dont feather my clutch i just dump it

SouthFL.02.SS

I used to do that- cam only (TSP 231/237) all the time. Full weight, stock suspension on drag radials - 12.1 @ 118 was my best with that combo. I did have 4.10's in the 10 bolt at the time however. You need the proper gear out back for the cam, no doubt about it. I used to leave at 3500rpm to get those times - used a technique I learned on this board to launch and I grannyshifted the rest of the way.

300bhp/ton

A couple of points.

1. I hear exactly what you're saying. The car should be quicker without driving it any different.

2. If it's running ok on the back half but not the first 1/8th this to me indicates an issue. Your 60' is not bad. So have you checked every thing? Stupid things, like tq management. The point I'm getting at is, maybe there is something (probably electrical) that is causing the car to produce less power in the first few gears. It may not be, but in all reality the car should pull stronger at low speeds than at high speeds, as there is less rolling resistance and less aerodynamic drag. This has nothing to do with low end grunt, as 2000rpm is the same 2000rpm whether it's in 1st or 6th gear, the engine should be producing the same power/torque curve in every gear.

3. To further back this up, you said you felt no noticable different between 3.42 and 4.10 gears. This doesn't seem to add up to me. You of course loose terminal speed in each gear, but it should reach that speed sooner. Gears 'could' cause a slight drop in trap speed, but it should be to a slight gain in time.

4. Your dyno does seem low, comparitavily speaking. Was it a different dyno that it made 400rwhp on? As the difference between Mustang and Dynojet dyno's can be 20rwhp.

That aside, rear end gears should not adversly affect your rwhp numbers, as the internal gearing of the gearbox have remained static. Only the relative loading and friction from new parts/bearings should affect the number.

FYI - air temp should have little affect on a dyno. ALL dyno's should use correction factors to equal out the results for comparative purposes. Admittidly many don't use them or at least use them corretly. But if they are used it should make no odds whether it's freezing out or 100 degree's. Same goes for humidity. The equations should take all of this into account.

5. Personally I think the cam is a little OTT for what you are after, but there may well be a more underlying issue too.

The cheepest, way to gain additional info is:

1. Get someelse to drive your car and see what they get.
2. Try launching at 5000rpm

If these still do not produce the results, then there is a more serious problem aside from your driving style. If either option does produce the desired results then it go's to show the car is performing fine, and it's just not the cam for you.

I also wouldn't worry about the rear end either, if it's going to go then its going to go, may as well see if you can get the results you are after. And besides one or two launches like that 'may' not brake it.

black_knight

iTrader: (1)

Okay, seriously people, HE DOES NOT WANT TO LAUNCH AT 5000. This reminds me of nitrous people bugging the no-nitrous people. He doesn't want to! Get over it! He has now said that several times so either answer his question as he has stated it, or don't post!

As I said, I dyno'd a slightly LOWER curve than his, missed every shift due to a bad shift light, spun out the tires at launch for a 2.1-2.2 60 ft, and STILL MPH'd higher than him. (113-114) And I launched at 2000-2500 RPM's. There is definitely something fishy going on here.

SouthFL.02.SS

See my post from this page.

Vortec5300

SouthFL02, I did have 4.10s in it the 2nd time at the track. I did "feel" a significant difference on the street with the 4.10s. I even raced a buddy with a Zr1 that normally it takes me till 3rd to pull away from him and with the 4.10s at the top of 1st and ALL through 2nd I can easily pull away. They seemed to make a GOOD difference to me but the track didn't show the increase. I was hoping to come high enough it wouldn't fall on its face and that the 4.10s would let it rev into the powerband quicker but it just didn't work that way. I will try dumping the clutch higher harder next time out, I do feel its going to break something though.. Even at 3500 dumps it made quite a bit of noise out the back. LOL I just don't see it picking up the 2-3 mph in the 1/8 its short JUST due to launching but.. You never know.

When I had my stock M6 formula with a 100 shot, I was on DRs and I just dumped it at 3k and sprayed it from the gate, it 60' ed 1.95 but with the stock motor and instant torque of the nitrous, it easily pulled through the weak low end and ran 12.10@118 EASILY. That car was running 13.0-13.10@108 without nitrous.

I appreciate all the tips and advice. Guess I am going to try a few more things before I rip the cam out, I was just hoping it would run more mph with less abuse. In my mind it should be running 115-117 in the 1/4 no problem, regardless of how hard I dump it. I guess this is not so. I have more experience with autos/stalls then with M6s. I really don't have the money to buy a 12bolt right now though...

SouthFL.02.SS

DO NOT DUMP THE CLUTCH and stab the throttle.
Hold revs at 3500rpm.
Let go of clutch WHILE HOLDING revs at 3500rpm. Feel the car roll forward, THEN mash the gas. This helps deal whith the initial shock of the launch and got me consistent high 1.7x's, 1.8's and 1.9's on stock suspension.

Good luck!

Vortec5300

Thats exactly what I want, a good solid launch and low 12s@118. I can lift throttle shift or speed shift(power shift), it doesn't matter.

I also have tried dumping the clutch and right at the point of full engagement, I would hold the clutch just a tad to let it slip and keep the rpms up to 4k, I did this one time and the 60' was a little worse, like a 2.10, the 330' dropped to a 5.50 down from a 5.59 so it seemed to help by keeping the rpms up but it smoked the clutch bigtime going down the track. I didnt want to tear the clutch up like that again. I just assume dump it. I have access to some 26X10 et streets I can use but I know it will destroy the rear end if I do. The car just has no weight transfer. It feels like its fighting itself to get out of the gate even though its NOT spinning the tires. This last trip with the 4.10s I was coming out around 3k and dumping it, once I tried around 3500-3600 and it did spin. I think next time I will bring the ET streets and a trailer incase it blows. I mainly want it to run good mph. If the ET was only a 12.30-12.40 but it ran 115-116, I would still be happy, that would indicate good HP but.. right now its indicating 340hp based on my 1/4 experience with it.

Vortec5300

Look at this board member's times, this is what I SHOULD be getting close to:

Best pass:
60 ft--1.91
1/8 et--7.71
1/8 mph--94.00
1/4 et--11.83
1/4 mph--119.48

This was on Nitto Dr's on a slick track.
Hopfully I will have a rear and sticky tires by spring
and some more 1.6... 60's.
__________________
Jess Franz

02 Sebring Silver Z28 M6
COMP 236/240, Patriot Golds
ported tb, maf, DF lid, fra, ASP underdrive
QTP e-cutout
4.10's, Weld Draglite's
Headman LT's ORY


Relatively weak 60' and he is still running it in the 7.70s in the 1/8, cam only. WTF am I doing wrong???

nuzee

iTrader: (2)

You forgot a few lines of his sig which reads:

12.001 @ 114, 1.65 60 ft. Stock internals
7.68 & 91 1/8 et.
3380 lbs. race weight

He is light weight & probably has a pretty well balanced setup to run that time on stock internals.

It's funny that you picked that thread, I was going to use it as an example to show to you the gain from a large cam. His trap speed went way up but his ET didn't.

Vortec5300

Ya but look, that thing was going 114 before the cam so...it was already a GOOD runner. I never noticed his raceweight etc... he is about 350lbs lighter then me. Thats 3 mph right there.

82Z28

vortech the only way your going to make the car run while doing what you call driving it off the line instead dumping the clutch is to make a but load of power. Because you are giving up two much up at the start. The problem is to make a stick car work at the track you have to go ***** to the wall out fo the hole. My car is a four speed car. Leaving like I normally do (6500) dumping clutch and trying to rip the shifter out of the car when I change gears, the car runs 7.30 in 1/8 with a 1.65 60ft. When I drive like you say it runs 8.0s with 1.9s 60ft. To make a stick car run you better go big or go home.

SlickVert

iTrader: (5)

Sorry but I did not rear all your post but you are missing the big picture.
First your dyno graph is peaking at 5800 rpm, it should be closer to 6300 to 6400 rpm.
Looks like the cam maybe installed to advanced.

Second when you launch at the track, the shock to the suspension it hard and if ANY metal to metal contact (like header, Y, Muffler, suspension, ect.), then you will loose a lot of power due Knock Retard like 4 degrees of timing on a stock tune.

Need to AutoTap your car to see what is really going on!
There is more track ET/MPH to be made or lost with tuning or lack of, then with any cam shaft.

glennster

iTrader: (1)

Getting a great launch with an M6 without a dump IS rocket science.It takes alot of practice and southflSS got it right,it takes a good clutch and a 3500 rpm controlled slip to maintain RPM.When you do it right you know it and the 60' will be in the 1.7's.That aside,you have something wrong with your car,I ran 12.20-30@114 with 358/365,Z06 clutch and a slip technique.I have a B-1 cam and it is awesome at the track and more importantly on the street.Don't make many peoples costly mistakes,buying a cam to large and now spending money on heads/gears/slicks so it will run the number.
You need to dump that dyno queen cam and get a 224 on a 112 and concentrate on TORQUE not rwhp then put a good clutch in the car and let it eat.

BLAKE 01 WS6

iTrader: (1)

I live in houston, send me a message when u are going to the track next and I'll see if my friend with hp tuners will come and log your run. But u can't be getting good weight transfer with that drop.I too am cam only m6, but i didnt notice much low end loss at all with my F13, with the 3.42's it pulled really hard, no weak spots, and my new rear/gear should be in in about a week, so i should be able to campare slips w/u.mine did 395rwhp/375rwtq on a mustang w the stock rear/gear.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

His cam looks like it peaks at about 6300 to me. Not the N20 run.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

Here is a graph of my old setup. 224 cam prior and 224/TEA Heads. See how much not only the peak numbers changed, but the area under the graph. With my 224 cam only I couldn't get better then a 12.9@110. 2.0 60' and a 3700 raceweight. Got some better air, suspension, and a better 60' 12.0 @117 1.78 60'. Also take into consideration the DA you are runing in. Guys that are closer to sea level will ALWAYS be faster with the same setups.



PS: It looks like you are runing a bit lean on the spray. I always shoot for 11.5-11.9.

Vortec5300

THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD!

BLAKE 01 SS, I will definetly take you up on it. Matter infact, if you are a great driver, I will let you make a pass in it to see the difference. I might try to go this Friday to HRP. 2 fridays ago when I went there was no one there.

Vortec5300

I do have quite a bit of metal on metal contact on hard launches. Some from the front, like y-pipe to body and then some from the mid-rear of the car. I just thought it was axle wrap up from the LCAs being negative(need relocators).

But my knock sensors are turned all the way down so hopefully its not getting KR but its NEVER been checked for KR, maybe we are on to something with that.