Fireball

iTrader: (21)

Is the GCVWR of 22,300 on your door tag? I know on dodges it is NOT. The only legally binding numbers are what is on the manufacturer plate on the truck. If the GCVWR is NOT on that plate, then the legal GCVWR of your rig is the GVWR of your truck + the GVWR of your trailer...

the GCVWR listed in the owners manual (if not on the door tag) is only manufacturer guidance...not law....needs to be on the truck plate to be legally binding...

As far as the business aspect...you are correct...putting anything on the trailer is certain problem and practically impossible to claim as recreational...here is something I suggest you print out and keep in your truck:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...738&guidence=Y

look at question #21. These are official guidance/interpretation provided by the federal motor carrier saftey administration.... in particular as long as you don't do schedule C for racing on your tax returns (claiming your racing as a buisness enterprise) you are considered recreational. Most DOT cops don't interpret this way so its best to arm yourself with the law

the last statement in that guidance about license means if you are over 26K you need a class A license....sometimes that means CDL but in Maryland, the state offers a non-commercial Class A license which is what I'm contemplating getting (same test as a CDL Class A but no medcard requirements)

1SlowFormula

Damn Brian, Now you have me scared about pulling my trailer... I need to look into the laws too, since I have just been pulling it and had no clue I needed to look into this stuff. I have a 28' tag that is pretty heavy since it is optioned with 110 voltage, cabinets and lights, AC, insulated walls, plus it has water holding tank and a sink and shower inside. I pull it with my 1/2 ton, but I have done a few mods to the truck to pull it safely, but they are not represented on the door tag or anything like that. When I bought the trailer it have the previous owners sponsorship stuff on it and it looked like a business trailer, a PA state trooper followed me for a few miles then passed me slowly looking things over but then just kept going, I just assumed after that I was OK to pull it...

What are some good places to look into how modified vehicles go into this in regards to how much it can handle legally?

Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

Modifications don't really play into ratings because they are DOT ratings. Things like frames, brakes, lugs, axles, tires etc are factored into the GVWR and capabilities.

A half ton is usually rated no higher than 11k pounds of towing. But a 28' tag trailer would likely have a high tongue weight and may put your truck over its limit. Your trailer probably has two 5200lb axles so it might be legal with the biggest of 1/2 tons (F150 and Tundra are rated around 11k).

You figure tongue weight of a tag trailer is usually 10% of the trailer weight. So 1100lbs tongue weight max. It would depend on your hitch and vehicle capacity to see if you are legal. A loaded 1/2 ton with people and gear can probably get you close to maxing with 1000lb on the hitch.

I really hope you are using a weight dist. hitch, but I still can't imagine towing a 28ft tag with a 1/2 ton.

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

well...I've decided on my new rig. Special ordering it so it should take ~8 weeks for delivery and I'm picking up at the factory in Indiana

Going with a 36' vintage outlaw gooseneck with double 7K axles. Dry weight is ~7200 lbs leaving 6800 lb for cargo...should be plenty for what I need

getting cabinets, d-rings, winch plate, skid wheels, generator door, framed for AC, deluxe light package, hydraulic jack, vinyl floors and aluminum tread plate on the door and on the inside runners...

Keeps me at a GCVW of 26,000 lbs even

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

law is that you can not exceed the GVWR or axle ratings of your truck.

1SlowFormula

thanks for the info, but getting brakes, tires, and suspension work to increase the payload and etc. doesn't count? From the literature on the truck it has a 9000 towing capacity, I assume this is the GVWR since I am not realy sure what that is.

I have put tires on that increased the load rating, strengthened the rear suspension to incresed the payload capacity to well over 2500#, up from the 1600# stock, and improved the braking system over stock. I have the same motor that is optioned in the 3/4 tun truck, plus I added a little power there too, and my new ratings as far as payload, brakes, and tires should have me better off the the 3/4 ton truck that has the capability of hauling the trailer according to the factory ratings.

But, my fear from what I read here, that just because the door sticker says how it came stock that this is how it will be judged, is that correct?

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

GVWR is the maximum the truck can legally weigh when loaded (just the truck). Open you driver door and look at the tag on the door...should have Gross Vehicle weight rating (GVWR) and Gross Axle weight weight ratings for front and rear axles of the truck (GAWR)

I know on my dodge there is no official combined weight rating on the tag (truck + trailer) To be legal, your truck can never weigh more than GVWR (even with trailer) so whatever your tounge adds to the weight of the truck can not exceed this nor can your rear axle weights exceed what is added by the trailer.

with a 1/2 ton, you'll exceed rear axle rated weights long before you exceed any combined weight ratings.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I've thought a few times to adding a towing or towing/ track gear forum.

1SlowFormula

I just ran out and looked in the door jam, and read the manual and it looks like it has a GVWR of 6650# and a payload of 1650# and a towing capacity of 8600# since it is a QCSB 4X4, if it was a regular cab, 2WD truck it would have 200# more payload, and a 9300# towing capacity. Not sure if you remember my truck when we were up at Tyson's, but it's an '05 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4X4, with the hemi engine and towing package. I have since added things to it but those are the factory ratings...

my trailer has a sticker that says it weighs 5080# I assume this was loaded with all the factory stuff, but if you add 1000# for the misc accessories, and 3000 for the car and tools, it is over the factory ratings, but since I have made the modifications I think those factory limits don't matter because they were mainly based on suspension and tires...

1SlowFormula

That would be cool, I have seen a lot of trailer accessory, or trailer choice type posts in the section, a section of it's own may get all the data together between the drag race guys vs the roadracers and such...

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

dodges don't put GCVWR on the door so don't worry about the "tow ratings" they aren't legally binding....just manufactuer recommendations for "acceptable performance". That number is usually only found in the owners manual

The trailer should also have on the sticker what its "GVWR" is. Being an enclosed, I'm assuming its dual axle so its probably either 12,000 or 14,000 lbs

Ultimately, when hooked together, the weight on the truck (if you weigh only the truck wheels) can not exceed 6650 lbs. The trailer wheels can not exceed what ever its rating is (12000 or 14000 for example)

Also...you have to look at the rear axle rating...this is primarily based on the rear tires that came on the truck...you can not exceed that on the rear tires, even ifyou are below the 6650 lbs total..

Heavy trailers + 1/2 ton trucks usually don't mix too well

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

ditto...

1SlowFormula

Yeah I guess what is killing me is that the 1/2 ton truck came with P rated passenger tires for a better road feel and didn't have crap for a decent load rating, I have put on LT tires with a much higher load rating, and if anyone checks they will nail me I guess, even though I made sure the tires could handle it. But if I am lucky since the suspension has been upgraded it should hang low so it shouldn't get too many second looks from the cops and they would just let me go...

Or do you think I can go to the dealership or write to the factory to have new door stickers made, since I stepped up tire size too, the door says the ratings are based on the P 245/70 17's but the truck is running LT 265/70 17's and these were an optional tire for my truck so they should have stickers right?

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

Check with your DMV. In MD you can have a 1/2 ton certified up to 10K lbs

http://www.marylandmva.com/Resources/VR-142A.pdf

1SlowFormula

I will look into what PA says, but I just got off the phone witht he dealership and spoke to both the parts and service manager and they both thought that those stickers are unavailable, and said even if a truck gets into an accident and the door is replaced they can't even get a copy of that sticker let alone order one with different data.

Thanks for the help, and sorry for the

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

no problem....I've learned more than I care about this stuff in the last few days and don't mind sharing what I've found out

1SlowFormula

looking into PA it looks like I can register it for the top of my class and unfortuantly it is registered with a GVWR of 6650, so that is class 2 and the top of that class is 7000# so when I reregister the truck I can get it registered as 7000# GVWR and that may help give some flexability if I need it. The next time I get the truck and trailer loaded up I will hit the scales and see how the weight falls first...

Here are the links to the PA docs for anyone wondering...
http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/pdotform...ms/mv-1005.pdf
and it refers to section 1916(b), use this next link and scroll down to section 1916 sub (a) lists the classes vs weight, and (b) has the statement that you can register to the top of that class.
http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/pdotform.../chapter19.pdf

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

GOod reason to buy a new truck

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

this is representative of what I've ordered (36' Gooseneck)...only difference is tandem 7K axles instead of triple 5300 or 6K axles...

1SlowFormula

I alway wondered what the guys with those type of trailers do with the section that stretches out over the bed especially if they have cabinets in there, couldn't you use that as a bit of a sleeping area?