Guido

Yes we won!! LOL

<--- insert sarcasm here

Y2K_WS6_T/A

Well you never will know if you don't try. You have nothing to lose by sending in pics to Brian do you? Either way, it seems to most people here that no matter what ARE says, moving the LCA's in is for competitive adavantage otherwise there would be no NON-Asthetical reason for doing so in the first place or than to make the car 'look good'. If certain size tires/rims can fit without moving in the LCA's then that is a moot point. I see the point that you would first hit the frame rail before you were to ever touch an LCA with such a huge tire/rim combo. Also, the shortening of the rear/axles makes to have less weight that is turning which in itself is also a competitive advantage. I understand that in racing you have to bend the rules as much as you can to win/have an advantage, without breaking them. Let's hope both sides can work this out and determine who is the BIG DAWG!!

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

We have raced the NMCA earlier this year and we're legal for stock suspension. Enough said. There is no advantage.

Y2K_WS6_T/A

We need to STANDARDIZE the rules for all organizations so an individual can race their car at many events without having to tear into the car all the time. I am not trying to start a war, just stating my opinion.

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

2 things..

1) Lower controll arms are thicker than 1 inch. I think they are closer to 2 inches.

2) Does ARE really want to go to that race? If so, I would think some pics would be getting sent.

Guido

If you spent as much energy trying to influence the rules as you do whining about them, then maybe your shop car would be allowed in good spirit.

Colonel

How much trouble would it be to put them back in the stock locations? I'm just curious and I don't care to get into this debate at all.

B18B1LS1

iTrader: (12)

Just because many cars out 60' you guys means that what you've done doesn't help any? Maybe their cars are just setup that much better than yours WITHOUT moving suspension parts around. What if you went back to stock locations and your 60's suffered even more...hmmmmm.....doesn't seem like a very good arguement.

Jeffrey

BADZ

iTrader: (5)

EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS!!!!!

Billingsley Racing

iTrader: (4)

These rules were not written to exclude anyone, rather to protect what "stock suspension" is all about. At what point is that line drawn other than to say "bolt-on components only"? For what reason are the shocks/lca's moved when the frame/springs are the first interference with the tire anyway? Or have these been moved/altered also? If so, is the stock upper spring pocket retained? All of this work for cosmetics? No doubt about it, I would be the first to say the car is awesome in both looks and performance. 8.5's in a stock bodied car is hauling *** in anybody's book. However, it is not our fault that it has been modified past what we consider to be "stock".

I can think of several valid reasons for what was done. Not only does narrowing the rear inner fenders provide extra tire clearance, but more importantly allows the rear ride height to be lowered drastically. This provides a much lower center of gravity to help prevent the violent pitch rotation (wheelstands) normally associated with torque arm suspensions. When the inner fenders are moved inboard combined with a narrowed housing, both static and rotating weight can be greatly reduced. Aside from the chassis and suspension benefits, the lower car is simply aerodynamically "cleaner" at high speeds. Whether or not these advantages were considered when constructing this car is not the issue. The fact remains it is not in the spirit of the rules.

As for the "Can't beat em, Outlaw em" claims, the debate surrounding this specific car is not new or related to it's recent performance. There has been talk of the rear suspension for over a year, almost before it saw the track. Again, ARE, you have an awesome ride and are entitled to your own opinions just as anyone else. Just because your car does not fit into this shootout does not mean you cannot come to Thunder.

We look forward to seeing all of you there!

Jay Billingsley

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Dave don't get worked up about it.Wade has the fastest LS1/LTI F-body in the world until somebody runs a 8.53 or better.The car looks damn good doing it too.It's their race so they can set the rules.It is about a 2700 mile round trip for you guys anyway.Put more to it and run some 8.4s.

The Big Show

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Jay. I wanted to chime in many times but always got side tracked for time. You said everything I wanted to say.

Now someone tell Guido to shut the hell up!

OSR 1

first off we could take the high road and save face with every one but I feel very pasionate about trying to put a series together next year and here is eastside feeling on this
1. I dont know wade or madmen but as one of the faster cars we would benfit if wade didnt come and we put a motor together for the race as would anybody who went down to thunder.
2.this might not be popular with everybody but i have to say Madmen deserve a lot of credit because he is the first one to come out and say what alot of us felt that stock suspenion should mean stock suspenion.
3.I hope that anybody who has a race for these cars next year stick by these rules and end any descusion about lca and stock,springs
4.I hope that wade and dave come down to this race so we can seat everyone down and make a set of rules that we agree as a standard for next year .
5. its not to late to move parts to fit the rules.
lets all try to turn this into a postive and show suport to companys like thunder and sites like this one LS1 tech and firgure away that ARE can race or fit into our next year rules with a weight penalty .
buttom line we need a place to race next year so we need a good showing in Nov.and a lot more people mite come now that they dont have to race a car that is .7tenths faster with suspenion they don't agree with .
I guess thats it from me but all I can say is thanks Madmen for getting the ball rolling and everyone get your butts down to thunders race and
and let figure out a plan for next year

Badass96ta1

Brian,
You can count me in if AFR and extreme come through. If not you can still cant me in on getting tore up on Saturday night.

Craig

2001-WS6

All I know is I've been watching both sides itching for a heads up event for well over a year. Now we are looking at a weekend where they could get after it in "almost Big Dog Shoot out" and a F-Body Outlaw event. That's two cracks at eachother in the same weekend and we are pissing and moaning about 2" inches of closer on some LCAs for 900-1300 HP cars.

Someone show me where these cars with welded in Torque arms and welded in rear sway bars are "Stock Mounts"???? Hell, if it's so easy to move LCAs in and out why doesn't everyone just move them in 1" a piece and spend the next 6 weeks retuing their suspensions for the golden .003 differnce you are going to find in your 60' times???

Is the slippery slope of letting that one or two or three more "nearly stock suspended" cars in at $500 a pop going to scare anyone of the current 6 cars out from running??? No, because they are there to race and on any given light, the car that makes it all the way down the track is the one that goes home with the win.

Now that being said, if it opens up, the ARE guys better step in the ring. If you need a road escort, there will probably be 5-8 cars trailoring down out of Motown Muscle from Michigan that you can haul with.

Rick

CHRISPY

I forgot about the Wolfe welded rear swaybar etc.

I guess most of the guys can't compete now....

vette

Post deleted by vette

CHRISPY

What about solid rear swaybars that welded on?

What about Torque arms that do not attach to the stock location on the tranny but are bolted/welded across the body of the car?

That isn't stock either...

Shouldn't those be disallowed too?

Guido

Those items have been common place items from more than one aftermarket company targetting our chassis for a LONG time.

As far as I know, people havent been moving LCA's and shocks.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Jay's post sums up the concerns.

Some of you guys can make little jokes but at their power levels small changes create advantages.

These suspension concerns have been around since a number of folks saw the ARE car at PRI show with the then new chassis work.