low ms3 numbers
I explained to you the car was pulled higher, but the rpm lead did not pickup properly. I showed you the graph in speed to prove that as you posted.
look and you will see the last run was more mph then the 1st
The car was down on power, but between very hot humid weather and an LS6 intake it is not surprising.
+ it's just a dyno # and nothing more
get the intake on, tune tweaked and get some track results
here is the #2 & #3 runs which show it dropping off after 6500, so we chose not to pull it any higher then 6500
look and you will see the last run was more mph then the 1st
The car was down on power, but between very hot humid weather and an LS6 intake it is not surprising.
+ it's just a dyno # and nothing more
get the intake on, tune tweaked and get some track results
here is the #2 & #3 runs which show it dropping off after 6500, so we chose not to pull it any higher then 6500
So much for the argument about pulling it to 7000 because it'll make more power...
I made 354 ft/lbs of torque when I was lid, catback, and bolt ons, and that was with an ls1 intake as well way back in 2000. Just think, you could have saved yourself about $1500.
My guess, the heads are not working with the cam, for whatever reason.
I made 354 ft/lbs of torque when I was lid, catback, and bolt ons, and that was with an ls1 intake as well way back in 2000. Just think, you could have saved yourself about $1500.
My guess, the heads are not working with the cam, for whatever reason.
reread the post and it does come off as a bash...was meant to be more of a check...bad products get out all the time...I have personally received more than a handful of products that were made incorrectly, out of tolerance, etc (not from tsp)...my dad has had good luck with the 5.3s and ms3, could very well be the cam was cut wrong too...was it degreed or cam doctored?
check the compression/leak down...
check the compression/leak down...
So much for the argument about pulling it to 7000 because it'll make more power...
I made 354 ft/lbs of torque when I was lid, catback, and bolt ons, and that was with an ls1 intake as well way back in 2000. Just think, you could have saved yourself about $1500.
My guess, the heads are not working with the cam, for whatever reason.
I made 354 ft/lbs of torque when I was lid, catback, and bolt ons, and that was with an ls1 intake as well way back in 2000. Just think, you could have saved yourself about $1500.
My guess, the heads are not working with the cam, for whatever reason.
As LS1 Speed said, between the humid weather and intake it is not a surprise the numbers were down. Intake, then the track and see if it is a dog. Then if it falls on its face start looking for what it could be. It doesn't have to be some big thing like a valve seal problem. I would have agreed with you on that if he had just tossed on some used heads he bought off the board and had no info on their history.
We just have a different approach... I would just start with the easiest things first. Not saying your way is wrong, just different than mine.
I wish the OP good luck.
Bill I wasn't bashing anyone, but was just commenting on the people who were simply focused on his horsepower number, and yes, if you spin it higher, you'll get more horsepower is it hasn't hit the peak yet. But once you cross over 5000 rpm, for normal street motors, you've already gotten past the peak torque in most cases.
Original poster, get at least an ls6 intake on there, and dyno during some normal temps/humidity and with your combination, you should be seeing 400 ft/lbs of torque. Between the compression bump of the heads, and bigger cam, 400 ft/lbs is typical and shouldn't bee to hard to acheive.
I'm not bashing anyone or trying to tell him that he's got problems with the heads or anything like that. I'm simply stating that too many people focus on a horsepower number as a target, but truth be told, max toruqe is a better indicator of a motor working properly. Carrying that torque into the higher rpm band is a function of chosen mods including heads, cam, intake and exhaust.
Original poster, get at least an ls6 intake on there, and dyno during some normal temps/humidity and with your combination, you should be seeing 400 ft/lbs of torque. Between the compression bump of the heads, and bigger cam, 400 ft/lbs is typical and shouldn't bee to hard to acheive.
I'm not bashing anyone or trying to tell him that he's got problems with the heads or anything like that. I'm simply stating that too many people focus on a horsepower number as a target, but truth be told, max toruqe is a better indicator of a motor working properly. Carrying that torque into the higher rpm band is a function of chosen mods including heads, cam, intake and exhaust.
Bill I wasn't bashing anyone, but was just commenting on the people who were simply focused on his horsepower number, and yes, if you spin it higher, you'll get more horsepower is it hasn't hit the peak yet. But once you cross over 5000 rpm, for normal street motors, you've already gotten past the peak torque in most cases.
Original poster, get at least an ls6 intake on there, and dyno during some normal temps/humidity and with your combination, you should be seeing 400 ft/lbs of torque. Between the compression bump of the heads, and bigger cam, 400 ft/lbs is typical and shouldn't bee to hard to acheive.
I'm not bashing anyone or trying to tell him that he's got problems with the heads or anything like that. I'm simply stating that too many people focus on a horsepower number as a target, but truth be told, max toruqe is a better indicator of a motor working properly. Carrying that torque into the higher rpm band is a function of chosen mods including heads, cam, intake and exhaust.
Original poster, get at least an ls6 intake on there, and dyno during some normal temps/humidity and with your combination, you should be seeing 400 ft/lbs of torque. Between the compression bump of the heads, and bigger cam, 400 ft/lbs is typical and shouldn't bee to hard to acheive.
I'm not bashing anyone or trying to tell him that he's got problems with the heads or anything like that. I'm simply stating that too many people focus on a horsepower number as a target, but truth be told, max toruqe is a better indicator of a motor working properly. Carrying that torque into the higher rpm band is a function of chosen mods including heads, cam, intake and exhaust.
Okay, now the fun starts. Did you ever see my post with my graph. It was a Mustang dyno which reads VERY low. My friend with almost the same setup put down 20 more RWHP & 20 RWTQ. These are the two highest head & cam numbers put down on this dyno. So, it should give you an idea on how stingy.
How much will a big converter throw off the numbers, especially TQ? Here is a link to the post with video.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-000-rpms.html
Your thoughts?
Later,
No clue on how much an a4 with a big converter eats up. If this guys car was an a4, I probably wouldn't have even posted in here, but the fact that a manual trans, barring a slipping clutch, can take the transmission out of the equation, it's easier to compare a m6 to another m6 unlike one a4 to another.
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Verdad Gallardo No clue on how much an a4 with a big converter eats up. If this guys car was an a4, I probably wouldn't have even posted in here, but the fact that a manual trans, barring a slipping clutch, can take the transmission out of the equation, it's easier to compare a m6 to another m6 unlike one a4 to another.
I really get tired of the same couple guys always attempting to blame valve seal anytime PRC is even mentioned. We use the top seat & guide equipment available in the world. Every set of heads that ship are completely checked prior to shipping to make sure they seal & will do as advertised. We also stand behind our products as well or better than any LS company out there.
You know some of you guys that have absolutely no experience with any of our cylinder heads that like to get in threads & talk **** is getting real old. How about you actually come down here & see what goes into a set of our heads. At that point if your smart enough to find issue with what we're doing then you have a right to post. Talking **** based off something Bret said on HCls1 while trying to bash doesn't prove anything.
If there is anything wrong with the heads we will replace or refund. That's always been our policy & we always work to make sure the customer is happy.
You know some of you guys that have absolutely no experience with any of our cylinder heads that like to get in threads & talk **** is getting real old. How about you actually come down here & see what goes into a set of our heads. At that point if your smart enough to find issue with what we're doing then you have a right to post. Talking **** based off something Bret said on HCls1 while trying to bash doesn't prove anything.
If there is anything wrong with the heads we will replace or refund. That's always been our policy & we always work to make sure the customer is happy.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
reread the post and it does come off as a bash...was meant to be more of a check...bad products get out all the time...I have personally received more than a handful of products that were made incorrectly, out of tolerance, etc (not from tsp)...my dad has had good luck with the 5.3s and ms3, could very well be the cam was cut wrong too...was it degreed or cam doctored?
check the compression/leak down...
check the compression/leak down...
Jon
I never specifically blamed the cylinder heads, but if they weren't setup correctly, that can be an issue. Fact is, if he's at ~350 ft/lbs of torque through an m6 with long tubes, larger cam, milled heads etc, he's got a problem with the amount of cylinder pressure being generated. Is his intake responsible for a loss of 50 ft/lbs at the wheels? I doubt it, so now you need to look at what's happening in the cylinder at the time of combustion that's limiting him power wise. Maybe it's a valvetrain issue, maybe it's a fueling issue, although it did look like he's around 13:1 afr, so I don't think that's an issue. Maybe the motor is bad to begin with and he was less than 300ft/lbs before the heads and cam.
I'm not worrying about it until I get an intake set-up on and have it retuned. I'm gonna have to agree with Ron on this one and say the heat/humidity combined with a restrictive intake is the main source of whats holding the power back. Sure there are thousands of other things that could be going on with the car. My first step is gonna be intake regardless. If the numbers are still shittier than what they should be after that then I can go looking for problems in the motor/clutch/heads/whatever. But the bottom line is it needs a new intake to reach the full potential of the heads/cam so why not try that first?
I'm not worrying about it until I get an intake set-up on and have it retuned. I'm gonna have to agree with Ron on this one and say the heat/humidity combined with a restrictive intake is the main source of whats holding the power back. Sure there are thousands of other things that could be going on with the car. My first step is gonna be intake regardless. If the numbers are still shittier than what they should be after that then I can go looking for problems in the motor/clutch/heads/whatever. But the bottom line is it needs a new intake to reach the full potential of the heads/cam so why not try that first?
Could be a bad plug / plug wire etc. Maybe plugs are toast and he's getting misfires, who knows, but some more research needs to be done for sure.
The curve is a classic MS3 dyno, just about 50lb ft of torque low everywhere. I'd like to see the weather station numbers compared to actual conditions. Looks to me like you got a bad weather correction on the dyno and your motor is actually stronger than the graph suggests.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
The curve is a classic MS3 dyno, just about 50lb ft of torque low everywhere. I'd like to see the weather station numbers compared to actual conditions. Looks to me like you got a bad weather correction on the dyno and your motor is actually stronger than the graph suggests.
You took the words right out of my mouth Patrick
Okay, not really but that makes so much sense I wish I would have thought of it. I guess the slip of a finger when entering the info could do that.