i have never been more disappointed with a car in my life
08-05-2010, 08:50 PM
#21
TECH Enthusiast
A H/C/I 408 should be in the 500rwhp range bar minimum, even through a 12 bolt.
One problem I already see is the cam choice. L92 heads like a LOT of split favoring the exhaust, and a short intake duration. I'd use something like a 230/242 or 230/246 in that motor. A 4-6 degree split isn't going to compliment a cylinder head very well that flows as much INTAKE cfm as the L92 heads do.
Take your car to a shop that knows what they're doing. That's a **** poor cam choice for that motor. VA speed should fit the bit.
One problem I already see is the cam choice. L92 heads like a LOT of split favoring the exhaust, and a short intake duration. I'd use something like a 230/242 or 230/246 in that motor. A 4-6 degree split isn't going to compliment a cylinder head very well that flows as much INTAKE cfm as the L92 heads do.
Take your car to a shop that knows what they're doing. That's a **** poor cam choice for that motor. VA speed should fit the bit.
You choose your split based on what you want it to do, exhast system, and E/I ratio would be much more of a reson vs myth...... There are other reason for selection. But aside, those heads are pretty hogged out.....
Your E/I ratio is:
PRC L92 E/I AVG. 69%
.200 74%
.300 76'%
.400 70%
.500 65%
.600 65%
.650 64%
Stock L92 not ported: E/I AVG 75%
.100 87%
.200 85%
.300 76%
.400 75%
.500 68%
.600 66%
.700 70%
now look at trick flows 225's
Trick flow CNC 225: E/I AVG 80%
.100 E/I 81%
.200 E/I 81%
.300 E/I 84%
.400 E/I 82%
.500 E/I 79%
.600 E/I 77%
use this as a guide or rule of thumb:
E/I % -split
80% > 4* or single
75% < 8*
70% < 10-12*
More flow or high cfm does not mean better all the time... not the most efficient and yes in this case I would say they would need an extensive exhaust......
But short splits will work, but not in your case... That cam would be kick azz in a TF or even unported..
You see the difference in the heads......
Plus never drop your car off for a dyno.......or tune... fugg that
Last edited by bozzhawg; 08-05-2010 at 09:01 PM.
08-05-2010, 08:51 PM
#22
Launching!
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it's a manual. and i just got it tuned so i haven't taken it to the track, but on my way home i drove the camaro and my friend drove my cts-v and we did a few runs, it didn't pull nearly as hard as it should have, it felt exactly like what the numbers are saying. we did a 3rd gear pull from about 50-100mph and i pulled about 1.5 cars on the V. that seems like what a 400whp camaro should do against a stock V. agh, it really sucks when you pour about 10k into a car and dont get the results you expect. but its a work in progress i guess.
08-05-2010, 09:09 PM
#23
TECH Enthusiast
it's a manual. and i just got it tuned so i haven't taken it to the track, but on my way home i drove the camaro and my friend drove my cts-v and we did a few runs, it didn't pull nearly as hard as it should have, it felt exactly like what the numbers are saying. we did a 3rd gear pull from about 50-100mph and i pulled about 1.5 cars on the V. that seems like what a 400whp camaro should do against a stock V. agh, it really sucks when you pour about 10k into a car and dont get the results you expect. but its a work in progress i guess.
Wrong cam with those heads bro or shitty tune....... pm me if you need a list of cams that would work....
08-05-2010, 09:24 PM
#24
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I would ask the tuner to plot wheel speed on the dyno to rule out traction issues. A pile of rubber doesn't mean anything. The knurled rollers can chew up a sticky tire in a hurry.
I wouldn't recommend running around to different dynos to find the #'s that you want. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on a lame combo and/or clutch issues.
I recently tuned (2) 383 LT1 cars that made in the 410whp/390ftlb range on my Dyno Dynamics dyno. I would expect your larger cubed LS car to make more power.
I wouldn't recommend running around to different dynos to find the #'s that you want. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on a lame combo and/or clutch issues.
I recently tuned (2) 383 LT1 cars that made in the 410whp/390ftlb range on my Dyno Dynamics dyno. I would expect your larger cubed LS car to make more power.
08-05-2010, 09:33 PM
#25
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They have several 4 split cams running 490+ to the rear wheels.....
You choose your split based on what you want it to do, exhast system, and E/I ratio would be much more of a reson vs myth...... There are other reason for selection. But aside, those heads are pretty hogged out.....
Your E/I ratio is:
PRC L92 E/I AVG. 69%
.200 74%
.300 76'%
.400 70%
.500 65%
.600 65%
.650 64%
Stock L92 not ported: E/I AVG 75%
.100 87%
.200 85%
.300 76%
.400 75%
.500 68%
.600 66%
.700 70%
now look at trick flows 225's
Trick flow CNC 225: E/I AVG 80%
.100 E/I 81%
.200 E/I 81%
.300 E/I 84%
.400 E/I 82%
.500 E/I 79%
.600 E/I 77%
use this as a guide or rule of thumb:
E/I % -split
80% > 4* or single
75% < 8*
70% < 10-12*
More flow or high cfm does not mean better all the time... not the most efficient and yes in this case I would say they would need an extensive exhaust......
But short splits will work, but not in your case... That cam would be kick azz in a TF or even unported..
You see the difference in the heads......
Plus never drop your car off for a dyno.......or tune... fugg that
You choose your split based on what you want it to do, exhast system, and E/I ratio would be much more of a reson vs myth...... There are other reason for selection. But aside, those heads are pretty hogged out.....
Your E/I ratio is:
PRC L92 E/I AVG. 69%
.200 74%
.300 76'%
.400 70%
.500 65%
.600 65%
.650 64%
Stock L92 not ported: E/I AVG 75%
.100 87%
.200 85%
.300 76%
.400 75%
.500 68%
.600 66%
.700 70%
now look at trick flows 225's
Trick flow CNC 225: E/I AVG 80%
.100 E/I 81%
.200 E/I 81%
.300 E/I 84%
.400 E/I 82%
.500 E/I 79%
.600 E/I 77%
use this as a guide or rule of thumb:
E/I % -split
80% > 4* or single
75% < 8*
70% < 10-12*
More flow or high cfm does not mean better all the time... not the most efficient and yes in this case I would say they would need an extensive exhaust......
But short splits will work, but not in your case... That cam would be kick azz in a TF or even unported..
You see the difference in the heads......
Plus never drop your car off for a dyno.......or tune... fugg that
08-05-2010, 09:50 PM
#26
Launching!
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im the fool.
08-05-2010, 10:11 PM
#27
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yeah, i trust them to do me right, i left my car there for a month while the assembled the engine and installed it in the car. i dont think its clutch issues, its a spec stage 3, and it is holding very well, I'm laying rubber thru 2 gears with 315 DR's with no clutch slippage. i dont want to go to a lot of different shops looking for a number, but i have read some very good threads about what VA speed has accomplished, i just went with DTP out of loyalty from the work they did for me before. I'm thinking of calling them to see what we can figure out. but i dont want anyone to think I'm unhappy with DTP, I'm just unhappy with how my combo performed. and i chose that cam, they just installed what i gave them. im the fool.
im the fool.
The slave was misbehaving and some shimming solved the problem.I'm not saying the clutch is the problem. I'm just illustrating how high load and a high gear can really test a clutch.
Good luck with the car
08-05-2010, 11:36 PM
#28
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I just got my car dyno'd at that same shop a couple weeks ago and it put down the numbers in my sig completely stock with a flowmaster muffler. Shop seemed like some straight up guys, so I doubt they did you wrong, although if i would have known about VA Speed before hand i would have gone to them.
-Will
-Will
08-05-2010, 11:59 PM
#29
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the cam specs are fine, stock ls3's dyno close to 500hp with similar cams. it has to be something else. any reason you didn't go with a bigger one though? that's pretty mild.
08-06-2010, 07:43 AM
#30
Launching!
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i got a custom cam spec from pat G and it was very close to the specs on this cam. close like within 1-2 degrees. and this cam was for sale fairly cheap in the classifieds.
08-06-2010, 08:32 AM
#31
TECH Enthusiast
He can pay $300-$500 for another tune and get maybe a few extra ponies
or
He can get a cam geared more toward the heads $375-$400
08-06-2010, 08:42 AM
#35
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cheap is most peoples downfall.Just because a cam "looks" the same doesn't mean it is.duration at .050 and lsa only tells part of what a cam is.Ramp rates and valve open and close points are much more important.
08-06-2010, 09:06 AM
#36
Gotta love the internet know-it-alls that "have seen some dyno somewhere" where XXX cam worked.
We do this for a living, and no. I'm sorry. Small splits do not work on L92/LS3 heads. I don't care what some "expert" on the internet said, some magazine, or some hypothetical formula. It doesn't work well, period.
Last edited by Damian; 08-06-2010 at 01:21 PM.
08-06-2010, 11:00 AM
#38
TECH Apprentice
Track time! Take it to the track this weekend. It will show your times and you will only spend about 20 bucks. You will know 100% after that if you need to take it to the pros and the need to spend more money....
Keep at it man. Don’t give up.
Keep at it man. Don’t give up.
08-06-2010, 03:47 PM
#39
Launching!
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shawn, should i call,pm, email, or what? i know i need a new cam now, and would like to have you guys have a crack at it. i read that thread about the amazing job you did for that one member, cant remember his name, something like WMK or something. lol
08-06-2010, 03:55 PM
#40
Launching!
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WKMCD, lol i was close, i read the thread about his vette. so if i get the right cam in this setup, will i get up around 500whp, that was my whole goal for this engine.