408 Low Results
#1
408 Low Results
Details: 408LQ4 Mahle -12cc dish pistons (.018 -.020 above deck), 10.93:1 SCR,
PRC Stg 2 Ls6 heads, 64cc chambers .660 dual springs,
kooks 1.75" LTs,
LTD True Duals w/ DynoMax Race Bullets
Catless, 42lb green top SVO injectors
gm mls .055 headgasket
Scat 6.125 rods
Scat 4" crank
242/246 .613 .614 113 + 2
Ls7 Lifters
Tsp Oil pump
Asp 25% UD
Monster Stg 3 Clutch and flywheel kit
moser 12bolt 4:10s
Fast 90/90
Volant Twin cone Fbody CAI
85mm Maf (76mm Maf used after 85mm Failed out during 2nd Dyno Run)
Steel DS
Car is a 2002 M6 WS6, dynoed on a dynojet 248h. Dyno is a bit tough, G6x3 cam, 1.875" Kooks, o/r xpipe, Ud pulley, fast 102, cold air induction CAI, M6 2010 LS3 Camaro put down 483/445wtq on same dyno.
Not My car, but a friend of mines. (Might chime in) I did not tune the car was just reviewing the graphs and logs. Also have the HPT file.
Graph looks smooth and power looks good Just not as high as expected
Car was tuned at Dynosport (About 600+ miles on engine)
Best pull was made with 23* of timing, Pull with 444whp was with 28*
PRC Stg 2 Ls6 heads, 64cc chambers .660 dual springs,
kooks 1.75" LTs,
LTD True Duals w/ DynoMax Race Bullets
Catless, 42lb green top SVO injectors
gm mls .055 headgasket
Scat 6.125 rods
Scat 4" crank
242/246 .613 .614 113 + 2
Ls7 Lifters
Tsp Oil pump
Asp 25% UD
Monster Stg 3 Clutch and flywheel kit
moser 12bolt 4:10s
Fast 90/90
Volant Twin cone Fbody CAI
85mm Maf (76mm Maf used after 85mm Failed out during 2nd Dyno Run)
Steel DS
Car is a 2002 M6 WS6, dynoed on a dynojet 248h. Dyno is a bit tough, G6x3 cam, 1.875" Kooks, o/r xpipe, Ud pulley, fast 102, cold air induction CAI, M6 2010 LS3 Camaro put down 483/445wtq on same dyno.
Not My car, but a friend of mines. (Might chime in) I did not tune the car was just reviewing the graphs and logs. Also have the HPT file.
Graph looks smooth and power looks good Just not as high as expected
Car was tuned at Dynosport (About 600+ miles on engine)
Best pull was made with 23* of timing, Pull with 444whp was with 28*
Last edited by 06X6spdGTO; 05-17-2012 at 08:04 PM.
#2
Torque looks decent for your setup , but i would have expected more hp, heads and intake are probably hurting u a bit . Bigger intake like a fast 102 and at least a trickflow 225 would definently get u closer to the 500 mark
#3
Just wondering why numbers are soo far down from a similar setup like this one:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...cesetters.html
With a stock LS6, Pacesetters, Stock 241s, and damn Near same cam, compression. Biggest difference is pistons
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...cesetters.html
With a stock LS6, Pacesetters, Stock 241s, and damn Near same cam, compression. Biggest difference is pistons
#4
You think swapping to TFS 225s and Fast 102 over the Fast 90 and PRC CNC LS6 heads are worth 40whp or more????
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#13
tried the 85mm MAF before it failed out. Made 440/433
finished tuning it on the 76mm since it still worked
Here it is on the 85mm:
finished tuning it on the 76mm since it still worked
Here it is on the 85mm:
Last edited by 06X6spdGTO; 05-17-2012 at 09:04 PM.
#14
Was the cam degreed correctly? Any misfires being recognized? This setup even with those heads should easily be in 470-480 rwhp and 450-470 rwtq IMO. The heads and intake are a restriction, but not nearly enough to equate for the power loss your friend is experiencing.
#16
I dont understand why all the decking on block piston selection and head cc ! Not being a *** just curious why you did it this way ! That is a **** load to be stickig out the block ! I seen them set low ! And seen them .008 out never that far though!
I mean is there a point where to much isnt od ?
valve angle and geomtry intake not fitting?
I am just asking is all and i get 11.35 on compression
I mean is there a point where to much isnt od ?
valve angle and geomtry intake not fitting?
I am just asking is all and i get 11.35 on compression
#18
Like I posted on LS1GTO, you need to address your entire intake setup along with the headers. Even though the cam and heads are less than ideal, it is still a 408 and still needs to breathe. You need a 4 inch intake tract, meaning 104mm Lid, 100mm MAF (or a 4 inch coupler if you go SD), 102mm TB and intake. Also the 1 7/8s headers will help you out a lot too. The numbers also look pretty dead on to me. You are running parts that would choke a 346 running that heads and cam setup, adding 62 cubic inches will only worsen the losses.
#19
I dont understand why all the decking on block piston selection and head cc ! Not being a *** just curious why you did it this way ! That is a **** load to be stickig out the block ! I seen them set low ! And seen them .008 out never that far though!
I mean is there a point where to much isnt od ?
valve angle and geomtry intake not fitting?
I am just asking is all and i get 11.35 on compression
I mean is there a point where to much isnt od ?
valve angle and geomtry intake not fitting?
I am just asking is all and i get 11.35 on compression
I suggested running the Wiseco K394x3 -8cc piston at 0 deck to .004+. Was told that those pistons were around $150* more for a full set of 8 than the -12cc Dish MAHLE.
When I heard about the piston being run that far out of the hole I suggested NOT to. ******** Engines (Builders for this setup) Stated that they run pistons out of the hole all the time for the race engines and that it would make the car have more power with less timing. They also took a little time to take a dye grinder to the valve reliefs on the BNIB MAHLE pistons to "Knock the edges down to combat hot spots".
My friend wanted Blueprint to do the build, the heads that were used came off of his old LS1/MS3 setup. As well as the Intake, TB, Headers and he wanted to reuse his old stuff to save a few $$. So I wasnt going to argue with him or the builders. They were set in there ways to running the cheaper piston and .020 out of the hole to get better compression without milling the heads.
Only thing I can see different between this build and many others (Some have even used stock 799 heads with smaller cam) is the piston selection and how far the piston is running out of the hole.
For the top end parts used on this car there is NO reason it shouldnt be over 460whp.
FAST 90/90 has been used on multiple 402/408 builds with great results. LS6 heads STOCK have put down better numbers on a mustang dyno on other 408s.
Compairing flow numbers alone take into consideration that the LS6 heads are normally measured on a 3.900" Bore plate while ALOT of other heads are measured on a 4.0" plate.
Still open to suggestions. But for the amount of money being suggested in (FAST 102/100mm MAF/104 Lid/Trickflow,AFR heads/ 1.875" LTs/Retune) you will be looking at over $5K to gain maybe 40-50whp! I would hope a Trickflow 225 or AFR 230 setup with everything else listed would be at least 510-520whp. Guess it means this one is only about 70+whp shy ~~
Its not like he is going from stock LS6 intake/Tb/241's to a Trickflow/FAST/Big Mouth setup. Just my .02cents
Still open to more suggestions
Headed back to the dyno today with a 02 firehawk (PRC 227, SNL V.4 cam, FAST 102/102, FTP 104 Lid, 100mm MAF, SLP 1.75" LTs, STOCK BOTTOM END LS1, Moser 12bolt 3.73's) that a friend and I have been working on for awhile.
(Same Dyno as this 408 was on)
Last edited by 06X6spdGTO; 05-22-2012 at 04:20 PM.
#20
Considering that my Forged 347 with ported (NOT CNC'd) stock valved LS6 heads, FAST 92/90, 85mm MAF, 1.875" Lts put down 463/416 on the exact same dyno with the 233/239 .598 .603 113LSA cam. 10.7:1 SCR
Last edited by 06X6spdGTO; 05-20-2012 at 09:15 AM.