427zm

iTrader: (9)

The Pistons will cost you some HP, as the lighter weight and the sealing of the stockers is hard to beat. I found this out the hard way on my 434 in my C5.

Yes there is. I spoke w/ Darin about John's heads, and he told me it'd be near 10k to duplicate them. John got a great set of heads for a great price aka, not 10k.

Violence.z06

iTrader: (3)

Yea i saw those heads in the classified section but did not have the coin. They were up for a VERY good deal. Payed off to

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Guess I didn't see them on here. What price were they listed for?

John B

iTrader: (10)

No....there's probably another 12-15HP free for the taking if I did!
I could and probably should but likely won't.
Wow, please PM me the details!
You, I and Darin know that!!!

LPE 403, seriously...do you really take me for some kind of amateur who just likes to post things that have absolutely no merit or basis? Since you need a little education, let me give you some, I've been building and racing cars for 40+ years....I might actually have learned something during this time

Let's review the facts here, not your opinions:

1. When I first bolted in my LS7 motor it dynoed stock at 487 RWHP
2. With the stock LS7 the car ran 11.52 @ 121.66 MPH on the 4th pass, the first pass was 12.276 @ 119.17 MPH with a 2.10 60', a gain of 2.5MPH from the 1st to the 4th pass as I was able to experiment with techniques and push the car harder on each consecutive pass
3. The modified 704 RWHP LS7 run was ONE SHAKE-DOWN PASS short-sifting @ 7500 RPM with a stoplight take-off....do you honestly think that this would be my best ET & MPH for the day or ever? I would expect the same +2-2.5MPH with1/2 dozen passes if not more.
4. My 704 RWHP is VERY real and is in the 800+ FWHP range! Steve Barker (whose chassis dyno I used) ran his 542" motor on a local engine dyno and it made 833.5 HP, and when he put the 542 in his C2 car it made ~700 RWHP on his chassis dyno. This is ~15% driveline loss which is generally accepted by most everyone and hopefully even you!
5. If Steve's 542" motor engine dynoed 800+ FWHP and makes ~700 RWHP do you really believe that my numbers aren't real? You're only fooling yourself....why on earth would it work for Steve's 542 and not for my LS7? You can check out his posts on the CorvetteForum.com as he goes by 632C2. My LS7 is the most well documented example on the Internet of incremental HP increases from bone stock to the current state where I have painstakingly disclosed every tweak that I have made and not hidden any relevant facts!

Need further truths? Let me give you a couple of more.....have you bothered to take a look at this article from Hotrod Magazine where they compared 8 crate motors in a 1969 Chevelle SS that is prepped form drag racing?

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...-engine-tests/

Let me give you a synopsis....here are the times posted where they swapped in a stock crate LS7 motor and a 572/720 motor amongst 6 others:



Notice what times the Chevelle ran with the LS7 and it happened to weigh in at 100lbs less than my car did when I had my stock LS7 and non-12 bolt Mosier, etc (3420lbs vs my 3520lbs)? Guess what.....I used the QuarterJr Program and back-fit my stock track times into Program and then modified it to use the 1969 Chevelle's weight, auto trans, converter, rear gears, tire size and aero differences but chose to leave the atmosphereic conditions identical even though they likely weren't because guys like you would call "flag on the play". Here are the results......are they really surprising....I don't think so because if the software that I am using works for my car why wouldn't it work for the Chevelle? With my trick double stepped headers and 3-1/2" merge collectors I would expect to make ~20HP more than their set-up!





Let's look at one of the last engine combo's contained in this drag test article concerning the ZZ572/720 motor set-up....it only ran a 128.98MPH and everyone familiar with this motor knows that the 720FWHP is an underrated power number but let's just assume that it is exactly correct at 720. On my one and only "shakedown" pass (where I used a stoplight take-off and short-shifted the RPM at 7500RPM) my car weighed in at 290 lbs more than the Chevelle set-up (due to the weight of the Big Block compared to the LS7, 3560 lb. Chevelle vs my current 3850 lb. Monte) and I ran 133.75MPH which is almost 5 MPH faster + add the equivalent of +3MPH for the nearly 300 lbs of weight difference and guess what....~8MPH = ~80HP and 720 + 80 = 800 FWHP......need anymore convincing?

Let's face it, if I had the opportunity to make half a dozen passes instead of one I would likely have picked up several more MPH by experimenting with techniques (probably making in the 136 MPH range) and if I launched at ~ 5.5-6K RPM and got my 60' time into the 1.35/1.4 range guess what my ET would have been...10-teens at 3850 lbs in full street trim NA....bottom line, get over it, the numbers do add up!!! It never ceases to amaze me how people can size up a car's performance at the track with one pass! And by the way LPE 403, what was your first pass at the track with your current combo (assuming that you launched it light and short-shifted).....was that pass faster than what you run now....we all know the answer to that

STAR

iTrader: (1)

Impressive results! What's the intake port volume of those heads?

vetteboy2k

iTrader: (5)

John, there's no doubt your numbers DO add up, and no one knows better than you.
People often won't take the time to understand why and simply balk at something that is not the norm.
You can't convince everyone especially those not willing to learn.
The value of having the right parts and a team of people that know what they are doing is immeasurable.
And there's so much more to it than comparing corrected peak dyno HP numbers to track ET/MPH in a traction limited manual street car.

jegten

iTrader: (22)

Very impressive setup and results! Congratulations! I might pm you with a question or two.

Violence.z06

iTrader: (3)

Sent you a pm.

dckmn52

Wasnt aware that forged ones weigh anymore than the factory LS7 ones.
4.125 forged pistons off the shelf from JE are near identical weight as a factory GM unit.
Now if you used different rings that sucked compared to stock ones, then i could see an issue

LPE 403

iTrader: (6)

John....I'm flattered you spent half a day coming up with irrelevant magazine articles, your magic dyno source and why your engine should make as much as one at 542". Awesome....

Maybe quite coming off a little (a lot) butthurt when your self proclaimed, bullshit thread title appointing this thing as "most powerful....blah, blah, blah" doesn't fly with everyone when all you have to show for it is a trap # that rivals cars with a 100 LESS hp. And when its called out (and in your defense probably requires some tweaks and yes, more than one pass, lol), quit making a million excuses why it did what it did when you SHOULD know the audience isn't always going to give you a free pass. And I know I'm not the only one.....

Or maybe quit blowing yourself, quit looking for others to blow you, put a cage in that thing and spend some time working out the combo so it's legit.....

v8pwr

iTrader: (19)

I agree with LPE 403. An real 800hp engine will have a higher mph in a 4k lb car. The et can be far off but mph is a direct indicator of hp. Even if you have a bad run it will still trap a similar speed. If it had a 217rwhp increase and only gained a second and 10 mph it would be obvious that there is a problem.

John B

iTrader: (10)

You're right...the ET isn't legit but the HP numbers are....sorry you can't deal with the truth.
+2 to the LPE 403 club of clueless when it comes to real HP.

If you guys are so sure of yourselves and know exactly how much power your cars make then why don't you take a drive out here to the beautiful Pacific Northwest and bring your cars....we'll strap them down on Steve's chassis dyno and run them right after I demonstrate another 700+ RWHP number for my car....at least I know proof positive what kind of power my car makes, are you afraid that I might be right!

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Have you had the car on any other dyno to back up what it put down on that one? I'm not saying that this is the case with your car because I repect your build and the amount of time and thought you've put into it, but I've seen a lot of cases where a big dyno number was put down, but the MPH just wasn't there and then one questioned just how accurate that dyno was. I'm sure with more seat time, you'll lay down some low ET's, but based on what I've read, this isn't a track car so you could probably care less. I'm sure you're happy as hell with it, so that's all that matters.

John B

iTrader: (10)

Funny you should ask! I previously dynoed my car years ago prior to the LS7 swap at Turbo Technology and guess what...at the time my car actually made 5 RWHP less on Steve's dyno, 386 RWHP vs 391 RWHP on Turbo Tech's!
I have to and couldn't agree more with you ...just look at a lot of the Ricer crowd!

v8pwr

iTrader: (19)

If I could come up to Washington I would but I can't. I haven't told the world that I have the most powerful anything let alone without real proof. Giving comparisons off of the internet is worthless. This is obviously a pretty happy dyno as thousands of C6 Z06 owners would love for their stock LS7 to dyno 487 rwhp stock. Big dyno number without the performance, I must be clueless.

JR 427

iTrader: (5)

OP, you may need to throw an auto in there. My 2008 auto converted Z06 (LS7 obviously) made 520/490 and netted a 6.5 at 105 mph. My car weighed in at 34-3500 for reference. I'd love to see what this car is capable of with a hard launch

LPE 403

iTrader: (6)

And I'm sorry you still want to keep bench racing dynos and focusing on et. I don't care if you ran 12.50.....run it at 140 and now I'm listening.

jmm98LS1

iTrader: (28)

I love this car! Very very nice build.

I have no dog in this argument, but here's my worthless 2 cents since I'm bored:

Dyno's typically don't put a load on the motor like the track will. The tuneup in that car was clearly done on the dyno and made some awesome hero pulls, but put it on the track and based on the vids it clearly needs some touch up. The thing is so rosie o'donnell fat it's belching black smoke lol. Couple that with the fact that it was shakedown passes and the weather conditions at the track that day were likely not "SAE" conditions (no DA listed that I saw, maybe I missed it), and there's the gap between the mph and dyno run numbers.

Just for reference, my little 370 back in it's previous life made 675-700rwhp with a single stage fogger depending how hard I was pushing the tuneup. Race weight was 3850-3900 depending on fuel load. I always trapped 134-136mph but never raced in better than +2000ft air. At sea level it would have probably gone 138+.

Carry on...

John B

iTrader: (10)

Thanks STAR! 303cc's

Yep v8pwr, you've stepped in it and now your shoes are dirty....please tell me which C6 Z06's come with 32" equal length stepped 1-3/4" to 1-7/8" headers with merge collectors and 3-1/2" diameter head pipe exhaust from the factory like I put on my Monte Carlo when I dynoed it stock? Just maybe this is why they never would dyno 487 RWHP on Steve's dyno either

And since you've challenged this "happy dyno", which is an absolute ridiculous assessment since you have absolutely no data points to challenge the legitimacy of Steve's dyno, let me continue with your free education tonight.....my bone stock 2011 Z06 dynoed 472 RWHP on this dyno but wait.....the 2011Z's with the X-pipe dyno ~11 RWHP more than any other year C6Z......and why is this? The 2011Z is the only year that an X-pipe is offered without 4 CATs. So how does Chevrolet get away with rating all C6Z's at 505 SAE HP? Very simple....take a look at the details, Chevrolet re-certified the 2011 LS7's at 505 HP at 5800RPM rather than at 6300 RPM as they did for the 2006-2010 motors with the H-pipes and 2012-13's with the x-pipe and 4 CATs. So again, why did I spell all of this out for you v8pwr.....just like I'm trying to educate a few of your other buddies on this Forum who are doubting Thomas's I'm trying to educate you.....subtract 11RWHP from my 2011 Z06 LS7's 472 and you get 461RWHP thus correcting it to the power levels that you would expect to find on the 2006-2010 & 2012-13 Z06's. Now are you going to tell me that you haven't seen one of these C6Z's making in the range of 461 RWHP? There are many examples of this on the CorvetteForum.com with some of these years I've outlined above making upwards of 470+. Now don't you just hate it when the truth really comes out and it makes you look foolish
We have a winner

v8pwr

iTrader: (19)

I have to and couldn't agree more with you ...just look at a lot of the Ricer crowd![/QUOTE]

You are doing the same exact thing as the "Ricer crowd". You get an overinflated dyno number that makes you feel good. You post about having the most powerful this and that. You take it to the track and get REAL results. This is why people that know anything about racing use the dyno as a tool and the track is where they get the proof. The mph shows that you don't make the power, end of story. This is called PHYSICS. This "free education" that you are providing is almost as good as ObamaCare. You are right about one thing. I did step in it but it fell out of your head. Let me me know if you want it back or if you're going to pick up the next pile to replace it.