H/C Dyno sheet Thoughts?
03-05-2016, 08:28 PM
#21
Nice looking engine!! Is that a catch "box"?
I see you went with the fast TB & have a idle issue. A lot of people do. I made this thread after finding myself.https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ast-92-tb.html
I see you went with the fast TB & have a idle issue. A lot of people do. I made this thread after finding myself.https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ast-92-tb.html
Works well and cheap, it will capture around .25 quarts every 300-400 miles.
Thanks for the link.
03-06-2016, 01:13 AM
#22
Here is my opinion. You have a very strong engine, and with low miles. It survived open surgery and now appears to be healthy and healed. I see you have a high compression and a stock piston so forced induction is out of the question. I also see you have an OEM bottom end, which means spinning it to higher rpms (camshaft upgrades) are undesirable and may contribute to bearing failure, not to mention other problems associated with high RPM engines (IMO: no more internal mods, no more surgery, except for a possible oil pump upgrade around 120-160k miles).
At this time, It would be ok to experiment with different exhaust system options, and put remaining effort into the transmission and drivetrain. If you are still looking for more power, besides adjusting the exhaust system (I would not modify the intake side much, I would not upgrade the throttle body, feel free to ask why) the best option is nitrous, a progressive system (don't be cheap with nitrous) perhaps for its stealthy character gentle stepping up in power (more control, earlier nitrous action) will help the power feel more natural. Skip the nickle and dime options (dont try to get 5hp from this, 8hp from that).
Another option I recommend is reducing vehicle weight and rotating mass. Buy a light set of wheels, driveshaft, rotors, take anything out of the vehicle you do not need.
At this time, It would be ok to experiment with different exhaust system options, and put remaining effort into the transmission and drivetrain. If you are still looking for more power, besides adjusting the exhaust system (I would not modify the intake side much, I would not upgrade the throttle body, feel free to ask why) the best option is nitrous, a progressive system (don't be cheap with nitrous) perhaps for its stealthy character gentle stepping up in power (more control, earlier nitrous action) will help the power feel more natural. Skip the nickle and dime options (dont try to get 5hp from this, 8hp from that).
Another option I recommend is reducing vehicle weight and rotating mass. Buy a light set of wheels, driveshaft, rotors, take anything out of the vehicle you do not need.
03-06-2016, 01:02 PM
#23
Here is my opinion. You have a very strong engine, and with low miles. It survived open surgery and now appears to be healthy and healed. I see you have a high compression and a stock piston so forced induction is out of the question. I also see you have an OEM bottom end, which means spinning it to higher rpms (camshaft upgrades) are undesirable and may contribute to bearing failure, not to mention other problems associated with high RPM engines (IMO: no more internal mods, no more surgery, except for a possible oil pump upgrade around 120-160k miles).
At this time, It would be ok to experiment with different exhaust system options, and put remaining effort into the transmission and drivetrain. If you are still looking for more power, besides adjusting the exhaust system (I would not modify the intake side much, I would not upgrade the throttle body, feel free to ask why) the best option is nitrous, a progressive system (don't be cheap with nitrous) perhaps for its stealthy character gentle stepping up in power (more control, earlier nitrous action) will help the power feel more natural. Skip the nickle and dime options (dont try to get 5hp from this, 8hp from that).
Another option I recommend is reducing vehicle weight and rotating mass. Buy a light set of wheels, driveshaft, rotors, take anything out of the vehicle you do not need.
At this time, It would be ok to experiment with different exhaust system options, and put remaining effort into the transmission and drivetrain. If you are still looking for more power, besides adjusting the exhaust system (I would not modify the intake side much, I would not upgrade the throttle body, feel free to ask why) the best option is nitrous, a progressive system (don't be cheap with nitrous) perhaps for its stealthy character gentle stepping up in power (more control, earlier nitrous action) will help the power feel more natural. Skip the nickle and dime options (dont try to get 5hp from this, 8hp from that).
Another option I recommend is reducing vehicle weight and rotating mass. Buy a light set of wheels, driveshaft, rotors, take anything out of the vehicle you do not need.
I've started a 454 lsx build over the last two months that will be going in one of many cars around the farm just haven't decided which yet.
It should be a fun yet non economical build that will maintain street manners.
I'm shooting in the dark and going to say the TA with the Fast 92 combo should easily push it to 460/425. Which is plenty for a Nice day DD IMHO.
03-09-2016, 08:54 AM
#27
Keep in mind now that the Fast 92 combo is on it, the question will be what came first? Chicken or the egg?
These two modifications will be the last two performance modifications on the engine, or yet power modifications.
The dyno was booked through May 31st so it will be a couple months before and hard data can be presented.
Keep in mind though same tuner/same dyno. So this will be real world expectations and gains/losses.
Thanks for the positive reinforcements guys.
03-09-2016, 07:45 PM
#30
You can also run a cut-out partially open. With reduced exhaust gas pressure the engine may also enjoy a little extra timing, and if it's a maf car you might see the "improvements" as peak maf voltage/frequency increases. i.e. if I run the car twice with two different combinations, one maf voltage peaks at 3.85v and the next at 4.21v, well its pretty obvious the engine moves more air with the higher voltage peak, no need to put it on a dyno to see that.
Engines receive some benefit from a proper length/size exhaust, so don't expect the full open setting to give best performance if the engine isn't literally using every square inch and still needs more to breath. It might give a best/better peak number but what you lose under the curve could leave you worse off.
Engines receive some benefit from a proper length/size exhaust, so don't expect the full open setting to give best performance if the engine isn't literally using every square inch and still needs more to breath. It might give a best/better peak number but what you lose under the curve could leave you worse off.
03-09-2016, 09:27 PM
#31
You can also run a cut-out partially open. With reduced exhaust gas pressure the engine may also enjoy a little extra timing, and if it's a maf car you might see the "improvements" as peak maf voltage/frequency increases. i.e. if I run the car twice with two different combinations, one maf voltage peaks at 3.85v and the next at 4.21v, well its pretty obvious the engine moves more air with the higher voltage peak, no need to put it on a dyno to see that.
Engines receive some benefit from a proper length/size exhaust, so don't expect the full open setting to give best performance if the engine isn't literally using every square inch and still needs more to breath. It might give a best/better peak number but what you lose under the curve could leave you worse off.
Engines receive some benefit from a proper length/size exhaust, so don't expect the full open setting to give best performance if the engine isn't literally using every square inch and still needs more to breath. It might give a best/better peak number but what you lose under the curve could leave you worse off.
From past Z06 ls6 tinkering with collector designs, the kooks performed better than others and hence my decision for using them in this build.
Keep in mind the Trans Am current primary's are 1.750", not 1.875" like most preach on. This thing was built as a lowend torque machine and that persuaded me to stay with the 1.750"
My red Z06 felt quite sluggish with the 1.875" and mild 243's, as well as the Dart 205's on the same car.
The lowend on this TA is crazy, but that has more to do with the compression ratio provided by the TFS 58cc chamber vs 64cc 243's.
We will play with the cutout, and see what power is really gained.
The biggest wow factor hands down has been the 92mm intake. I drove the car today and without even touching the tune running 12.2-11.9 afr @ WOT, it just feels so much smoother while pulling so much harder. it really seems like the bucking around 1100 rpm has diminished? Maybe its imagination?
TR is very quick 19% TPS, and the tires break loose 1 and 2. It will be interesting to see the final tally.
03-09-2016, 09:36 PM
#32
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All he needs to do is take it to the track and prove it with the mph. Having 3.42 gears it won't mph as it should but it still should be over 120-121 mph at full weight. If it does I will believe it. You see cars that dyno high all the time but aren't any better at the track.
03-09-2016, 09:50 PM
#33
All he needs to do is take it to the track and prove it with the mph. Having 3.42 gears it won't mph as it should but it still should be over 120-121 mph at full weight. If it does I will believe it. You see cars that dyno high all the time but aren't any better at the track.
Bill I own many many cars it's a real number. It runs very well and met my expectations.
I can't express how well the combination works. TFS cathedral port heads make BIG power at the track or on the street. The venue is up to the man paying the piper.
03-10-2016, 12:01 PM
#34
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I bet that ported fast gave you, at least, 15/10. Hey I could only trap 119 in my full weight, 3.42, H/C/I 383. Bogging off the line, traction problems, no power shifting. I'm very happy with my cars performance even though, by the #'s, people think it's slow. Lol
Great job brob!
Great job brob!
03-10-2016, 11:05 PM
#35
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Yeah, the 1/8 mile mph probably isn't a good indicator. The launch has a big impact. I usually don't launch too hard so my car has always done better in the 2nd half of the track. When my car was a head/cam car I bought LS6 heads and had them ported by MTI of Houston (they were thought of as one of the best at the time) Thinking back it was nuts to spend so much money on the heads but there weren't as many options back then. I had 12:1 compression, a big cam, the LG G5X-3, a 90 mm ported fast, 1 7/8 AR headers, 12 bolt and 4.10s. I barely made 440. Car ran better than most. Ran a best of 11.39 at 123.6. It would normally trap around 122. Car weights roughly 3,400 (full weight other than spare and jack removed. I guess I also took off the front sway bar) and I weight 260.
03-11-2016, 08:24 AM
#36
His cam is basically the same size as your G5X3 was but will be on a newer lobe likely with more lift. EDIT: lift is actually about the same but Tooley's cam is higher on intake lower on exhaust and its reversed on the G5X3.
Ported 243s are great heads but I would still expect them to be outperformed by a set of CNC Trick Flow aftermarket castings.
So I really just don't see a reason to be skeptical of 440rwhp which seems fairly modest for the combo. Now that he has a Fast intake and a cutout I wouldn't be shocked to see 460+ out of it.
Ported 243s are great heads but I would still expect them to be outperformed by a set of CNC Trick Flow aftermarket castings.
So I really just don't see a reason to be skeptical of 440rwhp which seems fairly modest for the combo. Now that he has a Fast intake and a cutout I wouldn't be shocked to see 460+ out of it.
Last edited by thunderstruck507; 03-11-2016 at 08:31 AM.
03-11-2016, 10:55 AM
#37
His cam is basically the same size as your G5X3 was but will be on a newer lobe likely with more lift. EDIT: lift is actually about the same but Tooley's cam is higher on intake lower on exhaust and its reversed on the G5X3.
Ported 243s are great heads but I would still expect them to be outperformed by a set of CNC Trick Flow aftermarket castings.
So I really just don't see a reason to be skeptical of 440rwhp which seems fairly modest for the combo. Now that he has a Fast intake and a cutout I wouldn't be shocked to see 460+ out of it.
Ported 243s are great heads but I would still expect them to be outperformed by a set of CNC Trick Flow aftermarket castings.
So I really just don't see a reason to be skeptical of 440rwhp which seems fairly modest for the combo. Now that he has a Fast intake and a cutout I wouldn't be shocked to see 460+ out of it.
Seen the G5X2 cam in a buddy's car put down 420 to the tires on
(+-) 1.5% on two separate dynojets in the area.
This was a stock untouched 241 head car with the only other modifications being Kooks 1.875 headers. So in my book it was a true cam only.
Car ran 7.80's@93 hope this helps Bill.
03-11-2016, 11:52 AM
#39
I think you know the answer to that question. While that may seem a little short of an answer. Seen it to many times where this needs to be changed and that won't work.
For the gains it wasn't worth it in my eyes. I'm after a nice driving combination with good manners, and was not trying to impress myself with dyno numbers.
If you read my statement above about how my drivability improved that should be enough for you to pull the trigger on the 92 and not worry about having to space this or change that.
Honestly it took 45 minutes start to finish. For the cost difference it may seem like the 102 is a bit cheaper. When in all honesty time is money.
For the gains it wasn't worth it in my eyes. I'm after a nice driving combination with good manners, and was not trying to impress myself with dyno numbers.
If you read my statement above about how my drivability improved that should be enough for you to pull the trigger on the 92 and not worry about having to space this or change that.
Honestly it took 45 minutes start to finish. For the cost difference it may seem like the 102 is a bit cheaper. When in all honesty time is money.
Last edited by brobinson216; 03-11-2016 at 12:11 PM.