Actual TRQ Numbers
08-31-2016, 06:16 PM
#1
Actual TRQ Numbers Ok, I've been trying to figure this out. I wouldn't even know where to start with the equation. Ran the Comp TA on the Dyno. The RPM Clamp was dropped and broke so the Dyno Operator told me all Torque numbers are at the wheels through the Transmission and axle. Mod List is posted below, what would my actual TRQ numbers be? I was actually a little disappointed with the HP numbers considering the mods I have, I do understand that the numbers are at the wheels. Factoring a 10% lose that would be around 302 HP at the flywheel so I guess that not bad. But this motor is not tired, only has 55k miles on it. I don't think the dyno has and issues seeing as people have run their cars on other dynos and seen similar numbers. Just installed the cam and worked the heads. I am waiting for a Tune to run it on the Dyno again. I hope to see better HP Numbers. Thanks guys.
PS Pull was from 40mph to 95 on Mustang Dyno and before the head work, springs and cam
Ty McBride
Team Leader/Owner
McBride Motorsports
1997 Comp TA
Mods
-Pace Setter Long Tube Ceramic Coated Race Headers and Off Road Y-Pipe
-SLP 2OTL Resonator dumped before axle
-EGR and AIR Pump Delete
-Walbro 255lph in tank fuel pump
-Denny's Nitrous Ready Driveshaft
-Moser 12 bolt rear end with larger 33 spline axles
-Eaton Detroit Truetrac
-MOSER Upgraded performance cover with main cap studs
-4.10 gears, and a 1350 yoke
-58mm TB -P&P Intake Mani
-CC503 Cam
-CC Beehive Springs
-Lightly worked heads
-MSD Opti
-MSD Coil
-Taylor Wires
Suspension Mods
-BMR Springs
-BMR Panhard Rod, Chrome Moly, Adj
-BMR Rear Control Arms
-BMR Torque Arm Relocation Cross-member, T56
PS Pull was from 40mph to 95 on Mustang Dyno and before the head work, springs and cam
Ty McBride
Team Leader/Owner
McBride Motorsports
1997 Comp TA
Mods
-Pace Setter Long Tube Ceramic Coated Race Headers and Off Road Y-Pipe
-SLP 2OTL Resonator dumped before axle
-EGR and AIR Pump Delete
-Walbro 255lph in tank fuel pump
-Denny's Nitrous Ready Driveshaft
-Moser 12 bolt rear end with larger 33 spline axles
-Eaton Detroit Truetrac
-MOSER Upgraded performance cover with main cap studs
-4.10 gears, and a 1350 yoke
-58mm TB -P&P Intake Mani
-CC503 Cam
-CC Beehive Springs
-Lightly worked heads
-MSD Opti
-MSD Coil
-Taylor Wires
Suspension Mods
-BMR Springs
-BMR Panhard Rod, Chrome Moly, Adj
-BMR Rear Control Arms
-BMR Torque Arm Relocation Cross-member, T56
08-31-2016, 07:50 PM
#2
a little math when you need it, you take displacement in cubic inches * max rpm / 3456 = CFM * 0.069 (vol->mass for turbos, hold that thought) = lb/min (mass in pounds over time in minutes)
ex.
350 X 6000 / 3456 = 616 * 0.069 = 42lb/min = 420 horsepower * .85 (15% drivetrain losses average) = 360RWHP with 100%VE and a max RPM of 6000
The goal is, first match your horsepower and rpm to the displacement. I.e. plug in your CID and multiply whatever RPM you turned and see what the math says. Then, look at the dyno graph (I don't see one posted. You need it) and see how the numbers compare, it will give you an idea of how much "off" the dyno was (mustang dyno reads lower often) and using a little common sense you can figure out your theoretical max and min drivetrain losses.
Once you have the HP curve and compared real vs math, then you can do 1 of 2 things to find real and theory torque.
1. HP = torque * rpm / (33,000 / 2*pi), rearrange it so that you have [torque] on one side, plug in power and rpm until you find the peak manually.
2. or, take a derivative and find where rate of change of torque goes to zero, that would be the peak in theory math. Then, you can do a real world calculation based off the dyno graph for finding max and min real torque.
if you post your displacement and the dyno graph I can help you with all the maths
ex.
350 X 6000 / 3456 = 616 * 0.069 = 42lb/min = 420 horsepower * .85 (15% drivetrain losses average) = 360RWHP with 100%VE and a max RPM of 6000
The goal is, first match your horsepower and rpm to the displacement. I.e. plug in your CID and multiply whatever RPM you turned and see what the math says. Then, look at the dyno graph (I don't see one posted. You need it) and see how the numbers compare, it will give you an idea of how much "off" the dyno was (mustang dyno reads lower often) and using a little common sense you can figure out your theoretical max and min drivetrain losses.
Once you have the HP curve and compared real vs math, then you can do 1 of 2 things to find real and theory torque.
1. HP = torque * rpm / (33,000 / 2*pi), rearrange it so that you have [torque] on one side, plug in power and rpm until you find the peak manually.
2. or, take a derivative and find where rate of change of torque goes to zero, that would be the peak in theory math. Then, you can do a real world calculation based off the dyno graph for finding max and min real torque.
if you post your displacement and the dyno graph I can help you with all the maths
08-31-2016, 08:42 PM
#3
a little math when you need it, you take displacement in cubic inches * max rpm / 3456 = CFM * 0.069 (vol->mass for turbos, hold that thought) = lb/min (mass in pounds over time in minutes)
ex.
350 X 6000 / 3456 = 616 * 0.069 = 42lb/min = 420 horsepower * .85 (15% drivetrain losses average) = 360RWHP with 100%VE and a max RPM of 6000
The goal is, first match your horsepower and rpm to the displacement. I.e. plug in your CID and multiply whatever RPM you turned and see what the math says. Then, look at the dyno graph (I don't see one posted. You need it) and see how the numbers compare, it will give you an idea of how much "off" the dyno was (mustang dyno reads lower often) and using a little common sense you can figure out your theoretical max and min drivetrain losses.
Once you have the HP curve and compared real vs math, then you can do 1 of 2 things to find real and theory torque.
1. HP = torque * rpm / (33,000 / 2*pi), rearrange it so that you have [torque] on one side, plug in power and rpm until you find the peak manually.
2. or, take a derivative and find where rate of change of torque goes to zero, that would be the peak in theory math. Then, you can do a real world calculation based off the dyno graph for finding max and min real torque.
if you post your displacement and the dyno graph I can help you with all the maths
ex.
350 X 6000 / 3456 = 616 * 0.069 = 42lb/min = 420 horsepower * .85 (15% drivetrain losses average) = 360RWHP with 100%VE and a max RPM of 6000
The goal is, first match your horsepower and rpm to the displacement. I.e. plug in your CID and multiply whatever RPM you turned and see what the math says. Then, look at the dyno graph (I don't see one posted. You need it) and see how the numbers compare, it will give you an idea of how much "off" the dyno was (mustang dyno reads lower often) and using a little common sense you can figure out your theoretical max and min drivetrain losses.
Once you have the HP curve and compared real vs math, then you can do 1 of 2 things to find real and theory torque.
1. HP = torque * rpm / (33,000 / 2*pi), rearrange it so that you have [torque] on one side, plug in power and rpm until you find the peak manually.
2. or, take a derivative and find where rate of change of torque goes to zero, that would be the peak in theory math. Then, you can do a real world calculation based off the dyno graph for finding max and min real torque.
if you post your displacement and the dyno graph I can help you with all the maths
Ty McBride
Team Leader/Owner
McBride Motorsports
08-31-2016, 09:33 PM
#5
11 Second Club
The formula to find hp, or tq, one from the other, is: HP / RPM x 5252=TQ. Or TQ x RPM / 5252=HP.
Another way to find around what rpm the motor was at. Find the correct OD of your rear tire, your rear end gear, & enter into a calculator that will show what RPM your motor was at, at what speed.
At the bottom of this page there is a RPM/MPH calc.http://www.andysautosport.com/learni...r/calculators/
Another way to find around what rpm the motor was at. Find the correct OD of your rear tire, your rear end gear, & enter into a calculator that will show what RPM your motor was at, at what speed.
At the bottom of this page there is a RPM/MPH calc.http://www.andysautosport.com/learni...r/calculators/
09-01-2016, 06:27 AM
#6
12 Second Club
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Just put it in the gear you dyno in and drive 40mph that's the bottom rpm and the top would be your rev limit if they ran it all the way out. Also using tire size diff ratio and gear ration wile get you pretty close on rpm as the post above says.
Hp =tq*rpm/5252
Hp =tq*rpm/5252
09-01-2016, 10:08 AM
#7
TECH Enthusiast
Trending Topics
09-01-2016, 11:29 AM
#8
Can't believe no one said this yet: ***Rule of thumb for drivetrain loss on these cars is 15% for an M6 car and 18% on an A4, that's through a 10 bolt. Add a point or two more for your 12 bolt. Mustang dynos USUALLY run a bit stingy on top of that. Using a 17% loss, you're around 330 at the flywheel, a good 55 hp over stock. That CC305 (not 503) is a mild cam, you gave no details on the heads and that's not out of the ballpark for warmed up LT1 numbers, especially considering it's a Mustang dyno. I bet it would be 30 more at the tire on an average dynojet and besides, LT1s weren't underrated like the LS1s and beyond so you're in the ballpark. Should be quite a good torque curve though which on the street will run harder than the peak HP says it should. More work to do to figure this out completely...if you have the money to spend on the time it will take to do so.
09-01-2016, 03:39 PM
#9
Can't believe no one said this yet: ***Rule of thumb for drivetrain loss on these cars is 15% for an M6 car and 18% on an A4, that's through a 10 bolt. Add a point or two more for your 12 bolt. Mustang dynos USUALLY run a bit stingy on top of that. Using a 17% loss, you're around 330 at the flywheel, a good 55 hp over stock. That CC305 (not 503) is a mild cam, you gave no details on the heads and that's not out of the ballpark for warmed up LT1 numbers, especially considering it's a Mustang dyno. I bet it would be 30 more at the tire on an average dynojet and besides, LT1s weren't underrated like the LS1s and beyond so you're in the ballpark. Should be quite a good torque curve though which on the street will run harder than the peak HP says it should. More work to do to figure this out completely...if you have the money to spend on the time it will take to do so.
Not sure if I read what your wrote right, but the CC503 cam is part number 07-503-8 Specs are as fallows
RPM Range: 1800 to 5800
Valve Timing: 0.006
Duration: Intake-276 Exhaust-281
Lobe Separation: 112°
Duration @ .050" Lift: Intake-224 Exhaust-230
Intake Centerline: 108°
Valve Lift: Intake-0.503 Exhaust-0.510
Lobe Lift: Intake-0.335 Exhaust-0.34
For the head work ill have to do some major digging around for the flow numbers. They were just lightly worked over...intake runners..etc..etc.. Nothing Major. Maybe comparable to LE1's but I doubt it. I haven't had an opportunity to run it after cam and headwork. Thats coming next.
Last edited by Ruken; 09-01-2016 at 03:44 PM.
