16' Camaro Ported H/C/IM/TB Bolt on's gains 189/111rw.
10-20-2017, 11:29 AM
#21
That would be a full sausage LS7 build at that power level. Pray is running a fairly mild cam with only 229 intake duration. Also he dyno'd in 5th gear. I am certain in the not too far future, a max effort LT1 will eclipse 600whp. Mod for mod they make similar power but the LT1 makes much better Tq below 3k rpm and is more fun to drive. I drove a 2007 C6z with 7k miles, then drove a 6g SS A8 back to back, and the 6g was a better driving experience, so that is what I bought. C6Z still bad *** ride no doubt. If it only had more leg room and rode better.
10-20-2017, 02:17 PM
#22
Not really. Depends on the heads you have plenty of ls7 cars with a good factory ported casting and mildish cams making 620... I'm about 25whp behind pray with bolt ons on mine.
The lt1 and ls7 actually make the same toque down low ls7 just pulls harder after 4K.
The lt1 and ls7 actually make the same toque down low ls7 just pulls harder after 4K.
10-20-2017, 06:50 PM
#23
Thanks guys. My typical LS7 build makes 615-630rw with my custom cam, ported stock heads and ported MSD. They drive pretty well for what they are. On the dyno I used for the Camaro I have only cracked 600rw once with a LS7. It made 612rw and is still the only N/A car to ever go over 600rw on this dyno. The most I made with a bolt on LS7 on this dyno was 515rw. But that was with just a ported FAST/TB, CAI, headers.
I am not sure how my intake lobe spec got out there but yes, it is only a 229. If I was willing to sacrifice drivability I think 600rw on the right dyno would happen H/C for a LT1. Not sure what the tq curve would look like though. I plan on going back in to mine and making some adjustments. We will see what happens.
I am not sure how my intake lobe spec got out there but yes, it is only a 229. If I was willing to sacrifice drivability I think 600rw on the right dyno would happen H/C for a LT1. Not sure what the tq curve would look like though. I plan on going back in to mine and making some adjustments. We will see what happens.
Last edited by Pray; 10-20-2017 at 06:59 PM.
10-20-2017, 11:09 PM
#24
Pray, you mentioned that duration number in a thread on Camaro6 or maybe FB...Didnt mean to spill the beans if you did not want it known.
Last edited by kinglt-1; 10-20-2017 at 11:15 PM.
10-21-2017, 07:08 AM
#25
.LT1 makes more TQ down low. Its been documented and mentioned in several articles. LS7 does not make 400wtq @ 2k rpm like the LT1 does. Its down around 350. I have driven both back to back and its obvious. The LS7 does come alive above 4k and pull harder like you mention. I love me some C6Z not hating...I was set on buying one. Just not comfortable enough for me.
Pray, you mentioned that duration number in a thread on Camaro6 or maybe FB...Didnt mean to spill the beans if you did not want it known.
Pray, you mentioned that duration number in a thread on Camaro6 or maybe FB...Didnt mean to spill the beans if you did not want it known.
The cam is 229/237 111+2. Pretty tiny in my eyes. But 11* of overlap is about all I am willing to deal with in this car. I am thinking something in the 235/243 112 range in a M6 car could crack the 600rw mark. It won't be happening on my dyno but it is definitely possible. It would be a little difficult to get the proper compression for it but it would work.
I designed my cam around ET. The dyno numbers are just what they are. This is all also prototype stuff. By no means are these products the final design. I am heading to the track today to get my shift points and what not dialed in. We will see what happens.
Makes me want to buy a 16' and mod it now..
11-12-2017, 05:44 PM
#28
TECH Enthusiast
Dang, did I. I have been piece-mealing the specs for a while. I am sure it is out by now. You didn't spill anything.
The cam is 229/237 111+2. Pretty tiny in my eyes. But 11* of overlap is about all I am willing to deal with in this car. I am thinking something in the 235/243 112 range in a M6 car could crack the 600rw mark. It won't be happening on my dyno but it is definitely possible. It would be a little difficult to get the proper compression for it but it would work.
I designed my cam around ET. The dyno numbers are just what they are. This is all also prototype stuff. By no means are these products the final design. I am heading to the track today to get my shift points and what not dialed in. We will see what happens.
The cam is 229/237 111+2. Pretty tiny in my eyes. But 11* of overlap is about all I am willing to deal with in this car. I am thinking something in the 235/243 112 range in a M6 car could crack the 600rw mark. It won't be happening on my dyno but it is definitely possible. It would be a little difficult to get the proper compression for it but it would work.
I designed my cam around ET. The dyno numbers are just what they are. This is all also prototype stuff. By no means are these products the final design. I am heading to the track today to get my shift points and what not dialed in. We will see what happens.
it is not a LS. i don't know why folks want a LS from it. i watch the TV program "search for america's fastest street car", and the bolt on LT1 gives a HCI 2014 Z28 all it can handle. TORQUE.
congrats OP, on optimizing a torque monster without attempting to ruin it and turn it into a LS3. -me
11-12-2017, 05:51 PM
#29
Thanks guys.
I broke the drive shaft the first time out. The second time out the trans gave way. I guess it had been bad for a long time. It went 10.66@127 with a horrible 60ft slipping the whole way. I will hopefully have it all back together in a couple days and back to the track on the 25th. The dyno numbers could have possibly been skewed as well due to the trans. We will see.
I broke the drive shaft the first time out. The second time out the trans gave way. I guess it had been bad for a long time. It went 10.66@127 with a horrible 60ft slipping the whole way. I will hopefully have it all back together in a couple days and back to the track on the 25th. The dyno numbers could have possibly been skewed as well due to the trans. We will see.
11-13-2017, 04:38 AM
#31
Yes. I put a 4* limiter in the phaser to see if retarding the cam would help since I kept it on the small side and advanced. Retarding the cam only hurt power. The problem now is that the cam retards on it's own now. I am seeing some retard just driving around. I am also seeing un-commanded retard at WOT which is costing me some power. I am going to have to pull the motor back down and put a 0* limiter in.
Even my STG I cam didn't benefit from retarding the cam. I will be shipping 0* limiters with my cams from now on.
Even my STG I cam didn't benefit from retarding the cam. I will be shipping 0* limiters with my cams from now on.
11-13-2017, 10:04 AM
#33
I am running the TSP Spring kit. They tested the lightest springs they could find to see if they could control the VVT and they couldn't. The spring in the VVT Phaser SUCKS. It is too weak to handle aftermarket spring pressure and so far, I have not found a way to up the oil pressure to see if that will help. Apparently to get VVT to work correctly there will need to be a complete re-design.
11-13-2017, 11:57 AM
#34
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
That's why i asked what springs you are running. I'm not familiar with the tsp spring kit. I do know psi 1511 and ti retainers are about the best combo I've seen for ls stuff and they get 1lb out of the valvetrain.
Gpi seemed to do well with their vvt cams. But for sure once you get to a certain point you can ditch it. But I'm sure for medium builds it would be beneficial. How far can the vvt extend your rpm? Even w/o additional power that could make it beneficial being able to carry a lower gear longer.
Have you looked at camming it to spin over 7k rpm?
Gpi seemed to do well with their vvt cams. But for sure once you get to a certain point you can ditch it. But I'm sure for medium builds it would be beneficial. How far can the vvt extend your rpm? Even w/o additional power that could make it beneficial being able to carry a lower gear longer.
Have you looked at camming it to spin over 7k rpm?
11-13-2017, 12:42 PM
#35
That's why i asked what springs you are running. I'm not familiar with the tsp spring kit. I do know psi 1511 and ti retainers are about the best combo I've seen for ls stuff and they get 1lb out of the valvetrain.
Gpi seemed to do well with their vvt cams. But for sure once you get to a certain point you can ditch it. But I'm sure for medium builds it would be beneficial. How far can the vvt extend your rpm? Even w/o additional power that could make it beneficial being able to carry a lower gear longer.
Have you looked at camming it to spin over 7k rpm?
Gpi seemed to do well with their vvt cams. But for sure once you get to a certain point you can ditch it. But I'm sure for medium builds it would be beneficial. How far can the vvt extend your rpm? Even w/o additional power that could make it beneficial being able to carry a lower gear longer.
Have you looked at camming it to spin over 7k rpm?
Retarding my personal cam line only hurts power and rpm extension. As soon as it starts to retard it falls off hard up top. I run my cam to 7K and the GPI SS4 I believe they spin to 7,500. For my personal cam though there is no need to spin it past 6,800.
The funny thing with the LT's and the A8 is that rpm extension doesn't seem to really help. You need to keep the trans in the peak tq to just past peak hp range. You are into 4th before the 1/8 in most cars. The three speed days are gone. Same with locking the converter and a couple other things.
11-13-2017, 07:18 PM
#37
There is something definitely strange with the VVT stuff. I get blips of retard through out a WOT run of up to 1.5* but right at 6,700 it retards back to 2+* and then I get a wild KR spike of 10* that just holds till I let off. It hits all the cylinders at the same time and evenly. It is really weird. It is clipping my top end pretty bad. I got to get that figured out.