How much power from this set up?
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,293
Likes: 3,617
From: Central Cal.
11 Second Club
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 15
From: South Florida
Also hoping the compression is up above 11.
Yeah I am being a dick but I am not.
I think the stock ls7 makes 505 crank hp. Your motor should do better than that. Stock ls7 uses 102mm maf. Its the diff between 3.5 and 4 inch. Rough numbers.
But you lose laminar flow by necking down. You have phenomenal heads on that thing and a pretty spot on cam. That mill can move some air the way you are setting it up. Then you set it up to breathe through a straw. And exhale through a straw. Even on my old 346, I was glad I ditched the maf. All you gotta do is log map at key on engine off and compare to map at WOT. If there is a big kpa drop the maf or intake tract in general is choking it back. Ditched the maf, gained 4 kpa. Thats over half a psi. And that was a 100 mm maf
So do I think you will be higher than 430? Yes, and I hope you do get awesome numbers and prove me wrong.
Do I think you will end up upgrading your intake and exhaust? Yes
Am I drunk enough to answer my own questions? Apparently.
But my magic eight ball says you will end up doing a straight 4 inch CAI and going SD.
I think the stock ls7 makes 505 crank hp. Your motor should do better than that. Stock ls7 uses 102mm maf. Its the diff between 3.5 and 4 inch. Rough numbers.
But you lose laminar flow by necking down. You have phenomenal heads on that thing and a pretty spot on cam. That mill can move some air the way you are setting it up. Then you set it up to breathe through a straw. And exhale through a straw. Even on my old 346, I was glad I ditched the maf. All you gotta do is log map at key on engine off and compare to map at WOT. If there is a big kpa drop the maf or intake tract in general is choking it back. Ditched the maf, gained 4 kpa. Thats over half a psi. And that was a 100 mm maf
So do I think you will be higher than 430? Yes, and I hope you do get awesome numbers and prove me wrong.
Do I think you will end up upgrading your intake and exhaust? Yes
Am I drunk enough to answer my own questions? Apparently.
But my magic eight ball says you will end up doing a straight 4 inch CAI and going SD.
Originally Posted by G Atsma
If the MAF IS 85mm and all other parts of the system are larger, especially the throttle body, the MAF IS the choke point of the system. This isn't rocket science. I don't know what your tuner is thinking, but physics is physics. If the throttle body is 102mm and is required to feed the engine in question, don't you think an 85mm part in the system will restrict it a bit??
Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
Yeah I am being a dick but I am not.
I think the stock ls7 makes 505 crank hp. Your motor should do better than that. Stock ls7 uses 102mm maf. Its the diff between 3.5 and 4 inch. Rough numbers.
But you lose laminar flow by necking down. You have phenomenal heads on that thing and a pretty spot on cam. That mill can move some air the way you are setting it up. Then you set it up to breathe through a straw. And exhale through a straw. Even on my old 346, I was glad I ditched the maf. All you gotta do is log map at key on engine off and compare to map at WOT. If there is a big kpa drop the maf or intake tract in general is choking it back. Ditched the maf, gained 4 kpa. Thats over half a psi. And that was a 100 mm maf
So do I think you will be higher than 430? Yes, and I hope you do get awesome numbers and prove me wrong.
Do I think you will end up upgrading your intake and exhaust? Yes
Am I drunk enough to answer my own questions? Apparently.
But my magic eight ball says you will end up doing a straight 4 inch CAI and going SD.
I think the stock ls7 makes 505 crank hp. Your motor should do better than that. Stock ls7 uses 102mm maf. Its the diff between 3.5 and 4 inch. Rough numbers.
But you lose laminar flow by necking down. You have phenomenal heads on that thing and a pretty spot on cam. That mill can move some air the way you are setting it up. Then you set it up to breathe through a straw. And exhale through a straw. Even on my old 346, I was glad I ditched the maf. All you gotta do is log map at key on engine off and compare to map at WOT. If there is a big kpa drop the maf or intake tract in general is choking it back. Ditched the maf, gained 4 kpa. Thats over half a psi. And that was a 100 mm maf
So do I think you will be higher than 430? Yes, and I hope you do get awesome numbers and prove me wrong.
Do I think you will end up upgrading your intake and exhaust? Yes
Am I drunk enough to answer my own questions? Apparently.
But my magic eight ball says you will end up doing a straight 4 inch CAI and going SD.
I do completely agree with you, I guess it's time to talk to a few other tuners in my area. Might go SD after all, like I originally planned to.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,293
Likes: 3,617
From: Central Cal.
Just to give the tuner the benefit of the doubt, I bet he's an old-school tuner from before computers and is a whiz with carbs and distributors, and back in the day, anything that measured 85mm would pass enough air to feed a healthy small block. He should retire, or get with the times. And I'm not a smartass kid. I'm a smartass old guy of 66. lol
Let's just got with that lol. I don't want to throw dirt on his name without giving him the chance to make his statement himself. Either way I'll post up the numbers when I get it tuned. Waiting for the weather to break a bit
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Anybody actually see 20whp or more from a MAF restriction? Acting like the MAF is the end of the world, anybody have back to back graphs? Don't show me a graph where the TB/intake/LID/etc was all swapped with the MAF.
My old setup:
TSP 2.5 LS6 Heads
Stock LS1 bottom end
TSP MS3 cam
1 7/8" TSP longtube headers
Dorman LS2 intake, 92mm TB
Stock MAF 75MM
M6
SE 3" duals
Loaded dyno made 438/420
Unloaded dyno made 480/436
Car trapped 119-120's.
11 Second Club
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 15
From: South Florida
I'm not debating that it wont make more power with a bigger maf. The question is really how much. I don't think just that change will be that big. As I like to say. There's only one way to find out.
Is the air box cut open at all or just pulling in the factory front inlet?
I don't get the low ball numbers. This is a 6.0l. Not an ls1. Good heads, 23x/24x cam, 1 7/8 headers, fast 102, M6. My buddies h/c 6.0l, still on ls6 intake, y-pipe single exhaust out the back. Made close to 470rwhp. Of coarse all depending on rest of setup & dyno. Exhaust/induction. I'd guess about 450+.
TBH if a car with ls6 intake and y pipe exhaust put down near 470rwhp I'd say that dyno was having a very happy day.
11 Second Club
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 15
From: South Florida
The difference between a solid LS1 and a 6.0L isn't phenominal. I went from a LS1 to a LS2, there were gains but nothing extremely jarring even with bigger cam and some extra port work on the heads.
TBH if a car with ls6 intake and y pipe exhaust put down near 470rwhp I'd say that dyno was having a very happy day.
TBH if a car with ls6 intake and y pipe exhaust put down near 470rwhp I'd say that dyno was having a very happy day.
Trust me. I guess some nice ported 243 heads & a pretty good cam. Not sure on specs but think in 23x/24x range. I was surprised how well his car ran with the supporting mods, ls6 intake, 1 3/4 headers, single exhaust. I myself believe the dyno numbers were close to that as him & I were the best run out of our LS group. It was neck & neck. I think he may be a little lighter but I cant say really. No a/c whatever. Now he is upgrading to fast 102, 1 7/8 headers, & cut out. Cant wait till he's done. Should make a nice difference.
Originally Posted by G Atsma
I agree with the above. I think in the OP's case it's a combo of restrictive airbox and too-small MAF. I can see a 20HP loss between them
Originally Posted by LaBLKv6Z
I'll guess 480/440 on a loaded dyno. What dyno will be used?
My old setup:
TSP 2.5 LS6 Heads
Stock LS1 bottom end
TSP MS3 cam
1 7/8" TSP longtube headers
Dorman LS2 intake, 92mm TB
Stock MAF 75MM
M6
SE 3" duals
Loaded dyno made 438/420
Unloaded dyno made 480/436
Car trapped 119-120's.
My old setup:
TSP 2.5 LS6 Heads
Stock LS1 bottom end
TSP MS3 cam
1 7/8" TSP longtube headers
Dorman LS2 intake, 92mm TB
Stock MAF 75MM
M6
SE 3" duals
Loaded dyno made 438/420
Unloaded dyno made 480/436
Car trapped 119-120's.
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Anybody actually see 20whp or more from a MAF restriction? Acting like the MAF is the end of the world, anybody have back to back graphs? Don't show me a graph where the TB/intake/LID/etc was all swapped with the MAF.
On my car going from a stock LS1 MAF to the 85mm MAF with a larger mesh honeycomb was worth exactly 0 measureable gains at the time it was done, which was around 420rwhp through an unlocked auto.