N/A E85 results
You are welcome. I plan on testing at the track as soon as I get a chance. Got rained out last week. When I get my flex fuel sensor in and hooked up we will probably do some more tuning on the Dyno too.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 124
Likes: 8
From: Navarre, FL
I've only messed with very mild blends on this car so far. Not totally surprised that you didn't gain anything from the timing... I just guess a slight bump from the increase in cyl pressure from the higher gas volume/pressure or whatever you get with ethanol.
Did you find the tuning/fueling to be pretty straight forward. Just change the stoich value and minor corrections to the MAF/VE tables? Or is it hard to say because you didn't have an ethanol sensor so you didnt know exactly what the mix in the rail was?
I've only messed with very mild blends on this car so far. Not totally surprised that you didn't gain anything from the timing... I just guess a slight bump from the increase in cyl pressure from the higher gas volume/pressure or whatever you get with ethanol.
I've only messed with very mild blends on this car so far. Not totally surprised that you didn't gain anything from the timing... I just guess a slight bump from the increase in cyl pressure from the higher gas volume/pressure or whatever you get with ethanol.
Once we get the flex fuel sensor in. Ill retune it all and make sure its making the best power and we will try some different blends and see what that does. Ill try chaning the EOI and see if I can squeeze a few more out of it.
We just did this test real quick so see if it was even worth messing with. For his car now and for any future builds that may be more compression than what we would normally do for gasoline.
It's interesting that Fran from RPMSpeed just posted a video about running E on a N/A LS build on Friday.
I've met Fran at some Holley EFI training a couple years ago...
I can honestly say he tells the truth and doesn't really give a **** what you have to say unless you can prove otherwise.
I've met Fran at some Holley EFI training a couple years ago...
I can honestly say he tells the truth and doesn't really give a **** what you have to say unless you can prove otherwise.
Also did 1.85 rockers, ported tb, it had a k&n cai, and put ls7 exhaust manifolds and cats with an X-pipe grafted to the stock mufflers.
Stock heavy clutch, c5z wheels and 295’s, all accessories, no underdrive, and needed headers in a bad way I think it would’ve helped no cats + long tubes. Lots more potential in the combo was just a fun side project. The car drove really well and the new owner is happy lol.
Wasn’t a record setter nor meant to be, just a point of reference for a mild NA car on flex fuel. It actually lost 5whp when I dyno’d it on E but picked up 15 ft lb down low. Had heavier tires on it and a different dyno day.
It's interesting that Fran from RPMSpeed just posted a video about running E on a N/A LS build on Friday.
I've met Fran at some Holley EFI training a couple years ago...
I can honestly say he tells the truth and doesn't really give a **** what you have to say unless you can prove otherwise.
I've met Fran at some Holley EFI training a couple years ago...
I can honestly say he tells the truth and doesn't really give a **** what you have to say unless you can prove otherwise.
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Lol I guess he can't read my Dyno graphs. Not huge gains but it's worth it to me. I'd rather gain 10-15 through the entire rpm range than 10 peak. Just because they didn't gain anything in Fran's video don't mean other people won't.
ive seen Fran pick up power so not sure what he’s referencing
This car picked up anywhere from 7-15 through the pull. Id say an average of 10rwhp the whole way. Just because Fran couldnt do it, doesnt mean that its not possible.
On this car 10 more PEAK horse would have required atleast a cam change and we probably would have lost some power somewhere.
And it cost Zzracer less than $100. If he had only have gotten 7 peak horse power, that's still not bad bang for the buck when you already have everything else.
I dont know what to tell you other than yours and RPMSPEED's opinion just dont matter here.
Jon
That car in the video gained similar amounts to this one. If you don't need the octane there won't be much to gain power wise. They said in the video that their customers expect 60whp gain on an NA motor. You're not going to see gains like a boosted car would.
Some cars will pick up literally 0, but the car runs cooler, you get lower charge temps in the cylinder and you don't ever have to worry about spark knock even in super high ambient temperatures. You don't need 100% E85 for these benefits either...30% already shows a big improvement and E50 is pretty much effectively the same performance wise.
Some cars will pick up literally 0, but the car runs cooler, you get lower charge temps in the cylinder and you don't ever have to worry about spark knock even in super high ambient temperatures. You don't need 100% E85 for these benefits either...30% already shows a big improvement and E50 is pretty much effectively the same performance wise.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 7
From: hattiesburg, Ms
I ran e85 for a bit and never did a good comparison vs pump gas. If I gained anything it wasn’t that noticible. When I ran ms109 it was very noticible, car picked up no less than a tenth on it but again didn’t have the best comparison to narrow down to exactly how much.
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 467
From what I have seen with e85 gains NA is that you need higher compression to see the benefits.
At least 12:5.1 or higher some gains will surely be had.
There are also other benefits such as a more responsive throttle, and more torque low down and midrange and the engine runs noticeably cooler and more consistent.
maybe a little quicker too.
The gains are certainly much higher with boost.
At least 12:5.1 or higher some gains will surely be had.
There are also other benefits such as a more responsive throttle, and more torque low down and midrange and the engine runs noticeably cooler and more consistent.
maybe a little quicker too.
The gains are certainly much higher with boost.
Do you understand what this thread is about?
This car picked up anywhere from 7-15 through the pull. Id say an average of 10rwhp the whole way. Just because Fran couldnt do it, doesnt mean that its not possible.
On this car 10 more PEAK horse would have required atleast a cam change and we probably would have lost some power somewhere.
And it cost Zzracer less than $100. If he had only have gotten 7 peak horse power, that's still not bad bang for the buck when you already have everything else.
I dont know what to tell you other than yours and RPMSPEED's opinion just dont matter here.
Jon
This car picked up anywhere from 7-15 through the pull. Id say an average of 10rwhp the whole way. Just because Fran couldnt do it, doesnt mean that its not possible.
On this car 10 more PEAK horse would have required atleast a cam change and we probably would have lost some power somewhere.
And it cost Zzracer less than $100. If he had only have gotten 7 peak horse power, that's still not bad bang for the buck when you already have everything else.
I dont know what to tell you other than yours and RPMSPEED's opinion just dont matter here.
Jon
I'm sorry that you posted on the internet and someone didn't agree with you.
I'm sorry that my experience is different than yours.
I'm sorry that that the people I've worked with, that are way smarter than most people on this board disagree.
I'm sorry others in this thread, and on the internet, we have had different experiences than you. Well that's ******* life.
If going E on a N/A build was worth it. You would hear about it just as much as you hear about going E on boost.
Honestly the only thing I'm sorry about is I bothered to post in here.
You probably picked up 10rwhp from a K&N too....
ok now I'm just being unreasonable...
Last edited by LilJayV10; Jun 17, 2020 at 11:22 PM.
The point of this thread was to show that in some cases you do have gains on E85 N/A . No we did not see gains like you would in a boosted application and did not expect to. Are my gains worth what I spent ? Absolutely! Of course everyone is different and everyone may not have the same results. Everyone will have to make their on dicesion if it's worth it or not. To me it was and it's a pretty good gain through the whole rpm range.