Timberwolf

iTrader: (8)

thanks for killijng my thread by moving it to this forum mods. I didn't post it for a dyno archive. I posted it asking for questions relating to my cam swap and other mods to see what I could have done wrong. Well, if anyone DOES read this, I have my .ls1 files ready to send out now. Those that have already asked have them in their mailbox now.

TA Jack

LS1TECH moderators treatin you like family.

dynocar

Using racesystems.com's HP calculator and my old Moroso Power - Speed Calculator (sliderule), using his weight and 1/4 mi ET/MPH, I come up with approx 350 flywheel HP. Using conventional wisdom of drive train losses, I'd say that Mustang dyno's RWHP number are right in there, enough said.

EJ

Timberwolf

iTrader: (8)

no, not enough said. I ran the same 1/4 mph and et BEFORE the mods, so why didn't the numbers change at all?

marc_w

Weird.

Are you certain 'the dots' lined up on the cam install?

CHRISPY

You didnt list track conditions, tire pressure, shift rpm, or what your 60 feet times were. It's hard to analyze without that information.

Depending on the above information I think your tuning might be a little off especially shiftpoint tuning.

It makes a huge difference especially with a cam

Timberwolf

iTrader: (8)

track conditions were listed int eh first post. 60' was 1.85 on ET streets with 20psi, NO wheel spin at all (I have video to prove it). Shift RPM was 6500

CHRISPY

I meant traction conditions at the track, not DA.

What is your WOT timing, AF, and did you properly scale the injectors?

What are your LTRIMS and STRIMS reading at cruise throttle, part throttle and half-3/4 throttle?

Any knock retard at any throttle position?

Did you drive the car far with the stock tune and injectors in it? If so you might have drowned the plugs/washed the rings with all the extra fuel.

Finally what are the exact cam specs? You mentioned 226/226 but what LSA/ICL, lift etc?

Timberwolf

iTrader: (8)

I didn't drive it at all. didn't even start it with stock tune. It's using no oil to speak of so far.

I had Seth (F1Z06) do the baseline tune, and he knew about the injectors. I have to assume they were scaled properly. When I used to tune lt1 cars you could just program in what size the injectors are and it would adjust from there. ls1 edit doesn't have that feature. In factthe injector scaling is based on MAP and I haven't figured out the numbers correlation to anything, so I didn't touch them.

plugs were brand new before firing the car. TR55 plugs probably overgapped slightly (around .055-.058...I remembered the gap wrong when I set and installed them). Wires are brand new MSD Superconductors.

I do notice a slight miss at idle. you don't feel it so much as you can see it in the engine with an occasional shake if you are watching it from the front of the car. Don't know what this is related to, but I have run an infrared temp gun on all the header tubes and they were all with a reasonable variation.

The LSA is 112, but I am not 100% sure on the ICL. I'll have to dig up the cam card. Thought I did mention lift. .595/.595

I'll post my last log, but keep in mind it's from ls1_scan, so the KR numbers are off by an order of 10. (meaning if it says 40 degrees, it's really 4 degrees). I did adjust the tune after this run, but the laptop hiccuped and I wasn't able to log it. I subracted a degree over the RPMs that saw knock and added a degree where they hadn't.

CHRISPY

You will need to scale the IFR table to get the injectors inline. This is scaled using MAP references. (0-100)

If that table isnt touched your injectors aren't scaled and you are going to definitely wash the rings.

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

Your peak massflow is at 38 lb/min which is around 380 rwhp if your tune is good. Looks to me like you're running crazy rich with your o2's over 1 volt. What do your power enrichment tables look like? And it probably wouldn't hurt to regap your plugs.

CHRISPY

Do you still have stock injectors? Is there a reason why you went with the bigger injectors?

If you wash the rings you are in a world of hurt...


Chris

Timberwolf

iTrader: (8)

I don't have ls1 edit here at work. if you want to check them out, I can email a couple files for comparison. the first is stock, the second is the baseline cam tune. any difference in IFR should be easily noted between the two. I would attach them here but 512k doesn't fit too well within the 100k limit

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

Chris I think you're right about the injectors not being scaled. He's seeing over 900 mV at idle and over 1000 at WOT which is way rich. For some reason the ltrims at idle are only like -5. Maybe your o2 sensors are bad too?

Timberwolf

iTrader: (8)

I was told my duty cycle would be maxing out with the old injectors and the new ones were a good idea. I still have the stock ones. I'm sure it was scaled for the new injectors as we had a discussion specifically about the fact that I had them. the only thing I am not sure of, as I stated, is how the flow is affected by the higher pressure the LS1 puts to them.

CHRISPY

If he didnt touch the IFR table the injectors are not scaled.

Those injectors are way overkill for your mod level. There are guys with 500+RWHP running stock 98 injectors and 450+RWHP running stock 99-00 injectors.

I would put the bone stock program and injectors back in and go to a different location for tuning. If you know a good tuner you can keep the bigger injectors and get them scaled properly but at this point those injectors were a waste of money.

Is there a quality tuning shop near you with a dyno and wideband?

even if there is one 200 miles away I would make the trip if I were you.

(Put in the stock program and stock injectors, (just raise your idle speed to 1000rpm) and drive gently to the tuner. (Dont go WOT)

If you aren't careful you'll end up needing to pull the motor, rehone and re-ring it if you wash the rings.

Timberwolf

iTrader: (8)

I have 1badls1.com (hardcore racing) and livernois motorsports both within 2 hours of me. unfortunately I don't have the $500-$800 either of them will charge for a good tune session (Unless someone wants to buy a brand new turbo from me )

CHRISPY

If you dont have the cash then I would definitely put back in your stock injectors and stock tune and go to a dyno and tune it yourself with a wideband.

For a simple tune do the following:

Bump your idle speed
set rev limit
shift points
timing (both low and high octane tables)
fan programming (put in a 160 stat)
adjust your AF using PEvsRPM table
Look at your knock retard settings
Look at your IAC counts warm at idle
check your AF on tip in

you can do some of the above before you hit the dyno to save time/money.

A quality tune is worth 500 bucks easily plus I bet you'll go 4-5 tenths faster and have way better drivability.

Also you will end up spending a LOT more than 500 bucks if you waste your rings and have to rebuild...

good luck
Chris

Timberwolf

iTrader: (8)

I put slohawk's tune in there. seems to pull harder. Logged a run if anyone wants to see it. Still got bad surge in open loop idle, but once it goes into closed it's fine.

Conditions of this run were:
Back country road, about 50 degrees F. street tires, launched in drive off
idle, so it spun, went to second while spinning, then when it caught
traction stayed in second and pulled from there. You can see how all this
happened by watching the MPH. I see it recorded some knock, but if Ken is
right, then the numbers are still high by an order of 10x. Dunno if that's
100% accurate or not.

SMOKIN01TA

iTrader: (10)

i think the injectors are a huge waste of money and imo you honestly dont have enough car to need them. the stockers are good for good bit more than you are giving them. i would put them back in and go from there. that would make things much easier cause im betting that you are running pig rich. go pay 60bucks or so for a dyno run with a/f ratio and check it out to be safe.