Dynamometer Results & Comparisons Dyno Records | Dyno Discussion | Dyno Wars

MTI STG 2e & G1 Cam LOW DYNO NUMBERS, why???

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-29-2005, 08:27 AM
  #1  
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Billiumss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 2,975
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts

Question MTI STG 2e & G1 Cam LOW DYNO NUMBERS, why???

Last night I dyno tuned a 2000 Z28 M6 with MTI Stg 2e heads, G1 cam (228 232 113lsa), lid, slp MAF, Pacesetter LT, Hooker catback, LS6 Intake, ported TB.

The best I could do for him was: 392 HP & 371 TQ

Why would these numbers be so low? Timing was fine at 28, A/F was about 12.7 (on the dyno) flat across the whole run, no knock retard, didn't see anything out of the ordinary during my scans. The clutch is fine also. if it was slipping, I would have seen it on my scans (HP Tuner graph scan)

A few months ago, I tuned a 2002 TA A4 with the same heads and cam and he put down 411 at the wheels.

To me, it almost seems like the heads where never really ported and has stock valves to get those numbers. I've tuned a few TR230 cam only M6 cars and they did about 385-389 at the wheels.

I personally didn't see the heads and cam before install but I did see the box the cam came in and it was the G1 cam. I think the heads are 853 castings.

As for head flow sheets, we all know that MTI has a bad rep of not providing them to the customer when the heads ship. The car owner didn't get his either. I tuned a bunch of guys around here with MTI heads and they never got a flow sheet, but this is the first time I have seen low dyno numbers from one of their packages.

What do you guys think? Crappy head job, hurt engine? The car runs like stock and pulls great on the road.

Bill
Old 09-29-2005, 09:30 AM
  #2  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (2)
 
Steve C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Im getting the same heads (Stage 2e) and cam (g1) installed and tuned at MTI. Picking the car up friday....sure hope my number's arent that low. MTI as far as i know/heard all their work and products are quality, though pricey. Either way, sorry i couldnt help; good luck with the car/tune....something appears to be wrong with the list of mods on that car.
Old 09-29-2005, 09:56 AM
  #3  
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Billiumss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 2,975
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts

Default

MTI usually has good products that perform well. I have tuned dozens upon dozens of cars and this one just doesn't make sense.

If I were you, I'd be there when they dyno your car to see what it really makes instead of taking their word for it, nothing like seeing it tuned in person... Make sure you get "YOUR" head flow sheet not some generic one....

Post your graph with A/F after you get it done, I'm very curious... I'd bet you will make 425 HP & 402 TQ at the wheels
Old 09-29-2005, 10:21 AM
  #4  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
 
STRIPSTAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Phila, Pennsyltucky
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Could the aftermarket MAF hurt it? Seems very few are happy with those with decent mods done.
Old 09-29-2005, 10:39 AM
  #5  
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Billiumss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 2,975
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts

Default

It's not the MAF, I tuned many cars with that MAF and those cars made the "expected" power.
Old 09-29-2005, 03:48 PM
  #6  
12 Second Club
iTrader: (38)
 
99 Pewter TA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Billiumss
Last night I dyno tuned a 2000 Z28 M6 with MTI Stg 2e heads, G1 cam (228 232 113lsa), lid, slp MAF, Pacesetter LT, Hooker catback, LS6 Intake, ported TB.

The best I could do for him was: 392 HP & 371 TQ

Why would these numbers be so low? Timing was fine at 28, A/F was about 12.7 (on the dyno) flat across the whole run, no knock retard, didn't see anything out of the ordinary during my scans. The clutch is fine also. if it was slipping, I would have seen it on my scans (HP Tuner graph scan)

A few months ago, I tuned a 2002 TA A4 with the same heads and cam and he put down 411 at the wheels.

To me, it almost seems like the heads where never really ported and has stock valves to get those numbers. I've tuned a few TR230 cam only M6 cars and they did about 385-389 at the wheels.

I personally didn't see the heads and cam before install but I did see the box the cam came in and it was the G1 cam. I think the heads are 853 castings.

As for head flow sheets, we all know that MTI has a bad rep of not providing them to the customer when the heads ship. The car owner didn't get his either. I tuned a bunch of guys around here with MTI heads and they never got a flow sheet, but this is the first time I have seen low dyno numbers from one of their packages.

What do you guys think? Crappy head job, hurt engine? The car runs like stock and pulls great on the road.

Bill

I made 407/383 after MTI dyno tuning through a M6. I run MACs w/ cats also. I bought some used ported 241 heads and used F13 to make my numbers. MTI did a great job with the tune. My numbers are alittle lower than most, but I love the new found power. Thanks ICON & MTI
Old 09-29-2005, 05:43 PM
  #7  
11 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
 
tigerls1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Could the cam be installed retarded? Would probably still run ok but be down on power. What was the rpm range it was making power? Is it lower than expected?
Old 09-30-2005, 10:00 AM
  #8  
Staging Lane
iTrader: (3)
 
napoleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

check the valvetrain geormety. sounds like it might be off, but it wold be easier to tell if we had a dyno graph.
Old 09-30-2005, 04:23 PM
  #9  
TECH Fanatic
 
SideStep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

I had poor results out of the Stg IIe and G1 combo also... 411/393

Old 09-30-2005, 11:59 PM
  #10  
jrp
SN95 Director
iTrader: (16)
 
jrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Valencia, Ca
Posts: 10,755
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by SideStep
I had poor results out of the Stg IIe and G1 combo also... 411/393

i was waiting for you to come in here
Old 10-01-2005, 08:00 PM
  #11  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (2)
 
Steve C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Got the car back, got the flow sheets to my heads. Dynoed 425.8rwhp and 394.5 rwtq. They messed up the work order and didnt put in the new throttle body till after the dyno/tune...hopefully that squeezes a more out of the engine.

Ill scan the dyno sheet and flow sheet early this week, and post it. The car feels really strong, havent got on it to much yet... since i have to break in the new clutch.
Old 10-02-2005, 08:56 PM
  #12  
TECH Fanatic
 
SideStep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Originally Posted by jrp
i was waiting for you to come in here


In all honesty some of my problem was a 115 lsa.... (+4)


Old 10-02-2005, 09:07 PM
  #13  
Teching In
iTrader: (5)
 
mcneil141's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Oak Ridge, NC
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

I made 430rwhp with my Stage IIe and G1 combo with my Z06. My heads were the 243's.

Andy
Old 10-03-2005, 04:24 PM
  #14  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
1BadMoFo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jackson MI
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Billiumss
Last night I dyno tuned a 2000 Z28 M6 with MTI Stg 2e heads, G1 cam (228 232 113lsa), lid, slp MAF, Pacesetter LT, Hooker catback, LS6 Intake, ported TB.

The best I could do for him was: 392 HP & 371 TQ

Why would these numbers be so low? Timing was fine at 28, A/F was about 12.7 (on the dyno) flat across the whole run, no knock retard, didn't see anything out of the ordinary during my scans. The clutch is fine also. if it was slipping, I would have seen it on my scans (HP Tuner graph scan)

A few months ago, I tuned a 2002 TA A4 with the same heads and cam and he put down 411 at the wheels.

To me, it almost seems like the heads where never really ported and has stock valves to get those numbers. I've tuned a few TR230 cam only M6 cars and they did about 385-389 at the wheels.

I personally didn't see the heads and cam before install but I did see the box the cam came in and it was the G1 cam. I think the heads are 853 castings.

As for head flow sheets, we all know that MTI has a bad rep of not providing them to the customer when the heads ship. The car owner didn't get his either. I tuned a bunch of guys around here with MTI heads and they never got a flow sheet, but this is the first time I have seen low dyno numbers from one of their packages.

What do you guys think? Crappy head job, hurt engine? The car runs like stock and pulls great on the road.

Bill
Bill, I don't think those numbers are that bad really. I put down 429 and 401 with the same heads and cam, but I had some other things as well...

True Duals instead of a cat back
Roller Rocker Arms instead of stock
Underdrive pulley instead of stock
K&N FIPK instead of the lid.

I personally don't think the casting number on the heads make a difference once they are ported, mine were 853's as well. I think the duals made the biggest difference. Was he running cats as well?

I also didn't get flow sheets, had to beg for about 6 months then finally got something sent, I'm sure they weren't for my heads although the dates and serial numbers did match up.

Scott
Old 10-03-2005, 04:28 PM
  #15  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
1BadMoFo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jackson MI
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by VerySlowWS6
Got the car back, got the flow sheets to my heads. Dynoed 425.8rwhp and 394.5 rwtq. They messed up the work order and didnt put in the new throttle body till after the dyno/tune...hopefully that squeezes a more out of the engine.

Ill scan the dyno sheet and flow sheet early this week, and post it. The car feels really strong, havent got on it to much yet... since i have to break in the new clutch.
I stand corrected

Please post your full list of mods, great numbers through cats, and especially if you don't have other things, such as a pulley...
Old 10-04-2005, 11:12 AM
  #16  
Teching In
 
jeff@mti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

In response:

1)If someone is missing head flow sheets. PLEASE call and I will either Mail or Fax!

2)We welcome any customer to be here for the final tune and dyno.


Jeff
Old 10-04-2005, 12:38 PM
  #17  
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (3)
 
cantdrv65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: TEXASS
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Ive seen the baffles in the muffler on those hooker catbacks break loose and impede exhaust flow. Take the muffler off its easy to do and you have an instant cutout.... Maybe that could be causing a loss of a few hp?
Old 10-04-2005, 12:39 PM
  #18  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
1BadMoFo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jackson MI
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by jeff@mti
In response:

1)If someone is missing head flow sheets. PLEASE call and I will either Mail or Fax!

2)We welcome any customer to be here for the final tune and dyno.


Jeff
That's great, but any insight into the low numbers?

What are the highest numbers you've seen with this set up? NA of course.
Old 10-04-2005, 03:38 PM
  #19  
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Billiumss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 2,975
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts

Exclamation

Here is the final dyno pull that we did, with heat in the motor:
Attached Thumbnails MTI STG 2e & G1 Cam LOW DYNO NUMBERS, why???-zane-dyno-graph.jpg  
Old 10-07-2005, 06:43 AM
  #20  
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Billiumss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 2,975
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts

Default

Any comments???



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 PM.