stang90gt50

iTrader: (6)

Friend of mine has had AFR 205's on his car for about a year now and has been pretty happy with them. He had the car custom tuned on a dynojet and its made good #'s with the AFR's since he put it together. He had another guy offer him $2000 for the heads and he decided to change to some Dart 225's to see if he could pick up any power and still have money left in his pocket. So they dynoed the car and did the swap...then went down and retuned/dynoed the car yesterday. They were $1275 from jegs or summit (cant remember which he bought them from). Installed like they come out of the box.

I stopped by to look and see how it went and it went great, he is pretty happy with the results.

AFR 205's: 429.7 rwhp & 385 rwtq through 6-spd, TSP 231/237 cam, FAST 90/90, longtubes, stock rear with 3.42's, all the typical bolt ons etc tuned with HPTuners on the dyno

Swapped to Dart 225's machined with same CC combustion chamber, checked pushrod length and made sure it was good as well, quench, compression ratio and everything else comparable.

Horsepower was slightly up about 8 rwhp and with tuning ended up being 13 rwhp gain and it was a solid gain from 3000 rpm up and torque was about the same through low and started to increase slightly across midrange/upper. Making peak torque of 386.4 rwtq at about the same RPM. Peak RWHP was about the same too.


Great to know as I installed my first set on a car recently and the results were good but I wondered how they would compare to the AFR's.

SideStep

???

I am surprised he only hit 429rwhp with all those mods... I hit 433rwhp and 422rwrq SAE with a smaller cam and no FAST.... ... TQ seems a little low also...

Can you post your friends dyno-graph???

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

430/385 is pretty lame for AFR 205s with FAST 90/90 and the other mods. Torque seems especially low. Most AFR dynos with those mods are in the 410-430 rwtq range. 385 is weak. Must not have been an optimized combination as the majority of people running the 205s make far greater power.

Do you know what else changed from one setup to the other? Was the combustion chamber cc the same or were the Darts a smaller chamber? Was the head gasket thinner on the Darts or the same? Just wanting to see if this was a true apples to apples swap.

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

Patrick, those are some killer HP numbers for your setup, especially most would consider that cam a "baby cam".

CKZ

iTrader: (1)

Wow...I knew I recognized your name.

So do you work for Dart or do you just have a vested interest in their product?

Out of your 53 posts I think you pimp Dart heads in almost half of them. Furthermore, you make a point to directly market them against the AFR heads.

CNB

iTrader: (4)

Since when is a 231/237 considered a "baby cam"?

offaxis

iTrader: (19)

I dont care if he owns dart. IF the post is legit its all good. There are more than enough AFR pimps around here to even things out. Just remember there are plenty of guys with afr`s that will never ever see results like patricks or Tonys. Thats not a knock on AFR`s they are a top quality head but Not every car reacts the same from the parts. It comes down to the details.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Just about everyone that spends the time to dial in his combo with an AFR head rolls a solid number....Patrick spends considerable time dialing in his combo, as do I, as do a handful of others that have put up the really strong numbers. Chassis dyno time and swapping parts is paramount unless your carefully following a recipe.

The baseline numbers are ridiculously low, especially the TQ, and there must be dozens of guys on this board that have produced far better with less effort. And Im not talking about the guys with access to testing equipment....Im talking the average Joe that makes up 95% of the guys here.

I would also like to see the dyno graghs from both and all the other pertinent facts laid out clearly....especially with the fairly aggressive approach taken in this thread.

Where's the "Popcorn guy" when you need him.

Tony M.

I would also like to see a few of the threads from the original lo-performing AFR combination....I would imagine there would be a few threads discussing that.

offaxis

iTrader: (19)

Even with his hp gains his tq is still low.

WS-Sick

Nice gains. The torque is low but the 231/237 isn't that great as far as torque is concerned. The price on the Dart's is great for the performance. Weren't the Dart's giving people problems though?

2c5s

iTrader: (11)

I have a baby cam in my ctsv: 432 rwhp/391rwt, nowhere close to your 231/237 cam plus a horsepucky intake. Post some dyno sheets and get the owner on here, otherwise

Redneck Z

iTrader: (3)

What's up with the cam swap Patrick? I thought those #'s were for your Trak cam. What are your new #'s for the 224/228?

jbs02somws6

iTrader: (1)

GMHTP tested a very similar setup in their Oct. 04 issue. The car had the 231/237 TSP cam, Patriot Stage 2 ls6 heads, LT's with ORP, and more importantly a stock ls6 intake. The car made 449 rwhp and 407rwtq tuned. Unless more info becomes available about this head swap, I don't know what to say except that I hope your friend is happy with his gains.

Abdullah

iTrader: (2)

i would say some ( 205 and 225 ) AFR heads rwhp are high and some other are some what low becuase of the heads them selfs how they were casted
( and also maybe how they were CNC'd from AFR) for that hand porting them is the best way to equalize them in rwhp.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

My A4 made 400 RWHP/similar TQ number. That was with a little A/F adjustment and hardly any tuning at all ... fresh motor with only 10 miles on it w/ 3600 stall (UNLOCKED)and 17" wheels.

With 3,000 miles on it now, I expect to get nearly those same numbers as your friend. Those are really weak numbers for an A6 with those mod's. I wouldn't give up my AFR 205 heads for Dart's. Meybe on a 402/408 stroker but definitely not on a small cube.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Let me re-phrase: If I were to go with a 402/408 stroker, I think AFR 225's would be my choice. The motor deserves the money spent on AFR quality.

hellbents10

iTrader: (10)

Not every dyno throws out impressive numbers. The one closest to me is a dynojet, I have dynoed a 4.3l s-10 there and it made 272rwhp according to that dyno. Whent to Wheel2wheel and it made 282rwhp on a mustang dyno.

The Darts are nice heads.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Know what you mean about the dyno's, esp the mustang dyno's. The dyno mine goes up on at NLP is known as "The Humbler". Probably yields about the lowest numbers in the state of Florida for a dynojet, but, the track numbers don't lie. On most dyno's, I believe my A4 would get close to the M6 numbers posted here in the #1 post up top. Those are some low numbers for a M6 with that setup.

Dart331Stroker

This is not a knock on AFR quality, but we at Dart dont make quality parts?? Just curious what your thoughts are and if you could specify what you mean by your statement.

Also there was a post on here about there being a problem with the Darts, what was the problem? We know of one small isolated incedent, and it could have been prevented had the installer noticed it on the front end. Both our mistake for missing deburring one edge, and shame on the two seperate installers who also didnt notice it. People should realize mistakes happen, it was isolated, only one guy had one problem, and thirty others on here posted on the same post and had NO problems!! So NO one problem doesnt mean there is a problem with the heads.

Does one new corvette with a bad motor mean GM has a problem with all corvettes??? Food for thought!!!

John
Dart

P.S. The dyno graph is a true comparison, doesnt matter what other guys cars did on other dynos, it was back to back, with the same specs. Just like engine dynos, you back to back compare on the same equipment, doesnt matter what someone elses car does, or engine does on someone elses dyno. His post showed that all the stuff was the same. We dont know, maybe it was, maybe it wasnt. But do all the guys who preach other brands have stock in those companies or work there? The guy above does not, none of our employees own an LS powered car of any sort.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

John, since you quoted me, I will gladly respond. I never said Dart's were not good quality so stop putitng word sin my mouth. You get what you pay for and I have the freedom to choose AFR's over Dart's, so, I prefer a more expensive head like the AFR's. My choice was made by looking at every flow chart and number on this board for my setup. I feel your heads aren't as good as AFR's ... so what?

And I haven't said a darn thing about one single problem or issue with your heads. So, quote the guy who said it. Don't put that **** directly under my quote to make me look bad just because you're pissed off that I prefer AFR's.