sprayin'99ss

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree.....its the STALL!

schtick

iTrader: (5)

I see. Anybody know what a restall costs and if you would recommend a different stall speed?

shortdog

iTrader: (1)

Nope. Brand new, custom made stall for my setup. Though, gearing is probably the missing link to my combo like a few people mentioned. If the leakdown test turns out ok, I'll debate on sticking 3.73s in the stock 10 bolt.

schtick

iTrader: (5)

Yeah I already have 3:73s.

jmm98LS1

iTrader: (28)

Wow, that stall sounds like it's toasted. It's hard to tell without seeing the tach, but just by ear it's slipping waaaay too much. IIRC, Yank charges like 200-250 for freshening up a converter.....I wouldn't go with any lower stall speed than 3800 with that cam though.

schtick

iTrader: (5)

Everybody else think I should keep the same stall speed?

brokeTA

iTrader: (9)

No I don't. I think a 3200 would be ideal.

Rebelord

iTrader: (2)

With a MS4????? Are you nuts? If your going to stay NA then 4000 stall atleast. If your going to do spray then 3800. If you want a tighter stall on the street then go for SS4000 or if your more all out NA then a PT4000.
I have a F14 w/4.10s and after alot of research and phone calls went with a PT4000 with some extras from Yank. Call them, have them freshen up the stall and restall it a bit higher and while your at it. Have your tranny looked at, because you dont want to contaminate a new stall with stuff that could be floating around in the tranny.
Autos are not dyno queens. Most everyone knows that. Especially with low gears and big stalls. Its a tuning tool. Get that done, then go pull them wheels at the track!!

Ski

brokeTA

iTrader: (9)

I guess I'm nuts then. I don't see the need for a stall speed of more than 1k rpm above the power band of the cam itself. I have an ms4 in my personal car, and if it were an auto it would have at the most a 3600. Its almost like wasting power flashing the stall that far into the power band. Just my opinion though. Another thing to remember is that a stall will almost never be exactly what they say it is. The more torque you make the more the stall is gonna work.

jmm98LS1

iTrader: (28)

You're not nuts, just misinformed
The MS4 "powerband" you're talking about is the 2300-6800rpm range that TSP lists for this cam. That means the cam STARTS making power at 2300rpm, but that's not where PEAK power is made. You want your stall speed to be a few hundred rpm below PEAK TORQUE.....that way when you mash the gas the converter flashes right to the point in the powerband where you're making the most power. That's the whole point of a stall---get to the meat of the powerband quickly. Look at this MS4 dyno curve: http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...e_21/Dyno1.jpg
The mods are very similar to schtick's car and although the numbers are kinda low, it's fairly good representation of the MS4. See where the tq peak is?....almost 5k rpm......3800rpm is on the low end of stall speed for this cam, 4000-4400 would probably be more fitting on a N/A application. Making sense?

hellbents10

iTrader: (10)

Get your trans to a good trans shop and have the converter opened up. I would agree that a 3800-4200 stall is in order for the MS4. I have seen low numbers like that do to a bad trans.

schtick

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the help guys. I'm going to start digging into the tranny and stall whenever I get time/money. Hopefully, that won't be too much longer. Once I get some things figured out for sure, I'll post it up. Thanks again.

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

Bad thing about this site is you get 50 different opinions and 80% of them are wrong. I'm not saying I know what is right but I can tell you your numbers are very low, even with all things considered (ls1 intake, unlocked converter, etc.). Dynos do mean something despite what some people want to believe. They are not a guarantee to make you go a certain ET and MPH but they tell you a LOT.

My guess is your biggest problem is probably the converter. I say this because looking at your dyno curve it appears your converter is flashing well past its designed stall speed. Maybe you are the type that need to be told what to do. So how about this. Send the freaking converter to Yank and have them "refresh" it. That's what you should have done when you bought it anyway. I did it when I bought my YPT 4400. I think they charged me $250 or $300. It was well worth it for me. While you are at it, have them change the stall speed to 4000. I'd go no lower than 3600.

Bottom line is you have a lot of work to do on your setup. You need a better intake also.

You know yourself the car is not right so just listen to your gut, make some decisions and be prepared to spend a little bit of money. Shortcuts are not a good recipe for making a car fast.

Bryan @ Speed Inc.

iTrader: (19)

+1 on the 4000+ stall and the ls6 intake

there's not a big gain from ls1-ls6 with stock cam and heads... but when you put a monster cam in the car - the ls6 will be worth A LOT more h.p.

i had a bad converter in my car... it ate h.p. horribly. i believe FANTAZ28 gained a shitload of rwhp just by changing converters (inefficient vs. efficient). so make sure you have Yank go through it.

many people think the converter is slipping too much, so i'd say start there. then see where you're at after that. if your power is still down - do the ls6 (or FAST) intake.

schtick

iTrader: (5)

It's not so much that I need someone to tell me what to do, I am just very new to the mods that I have on my car now. I've never had anything this hopped up before and I am a rookie at performance stuff. My plan is to take out the stall and tranny and get them both checked out. I'll probably go ahead and get an LS6 intake, underdrive pulley, and ported throttle body but it may be a while due to my financial situation at the time.

brokeTA

iTrader: (9)

If it was an all out drag car or spent alot of time at the track then I would say go 4k on the stall. But from what I gathered the is more of a weekend cruiser than anything. I wasn't misinformed about the power band. I know exactly what you mean, but I was stating that the cam starts to make power at 2300 and falls off at 6800. So why would you NEED a stall speed of 4k or more? I think a 3200-3600 would be more than fine. Would be better for driveability, and still work at the track. I have installed plenty of these cams in auto cars, and have seen 3400 converters actually flash 3800-4000 on a regular basis. Even brand new converters will do this especially on heavy cars.

schtick

iTrader: (5)

I think this verifies that there's a problem.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/682315-cam-only-ms4-vengeance-tune-wow.html

brokeTA

iTrader: (9)

M6 cars always dyno higher than autos.

schtick

iTrader: (5)

I know that, but 100hp more....I think not. Even though he has a couple more mods than me I still don't see an extra 100hp over an auto.

shortdog

iTrader: (1)

Take it to the track and see what it does. If your mph is at around 114 in a 1/4, then the power is there. If not, then there's an issue. I'm going this Wed.