Vengeance Racing 440 LS7/TrickFlow 235s Preliminary results...
06-18-2007, 07:32 AM
#81
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Originally Posted by electronbluec5
So if he is talking about the LS7 then why is he making an argument about cost? I spent less money doing what I did than if I had bought a LS7 crate motor. Less money, more power. I don't see what the problem is.
Greg
Greg
06-18-2007, 08:23 AM
#83
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Originally Posted by juiced_z28
OK for you smartasses. I am talking about this engine build compared to the numerous "cam only" LS7's out there making mid 5 hundreds on the dyno. Im not trying to bash or sound like a know it all. Im just saying, with a set of heads and the probably necessary high dollar intake Im just not sure that I personally would consider the results worth the money to take the car to the next level. I do know that it would not be possible to make this much power all motor without the parts/combination that is being discussed in the original post. Maybe I was not clear in saying what I was trying to get across as my opinion. I posted with the intention of some criticism but also figure some other people would agree that the extra 50ish rwhp would not be worth the thousands of dollars it took to get there. I am in no way saying this is not a badass setup or that they had excellent results. I just believe that LSX based engines do very well on stock heads and intake and dont have as much to gain as an old school SBC or SBF with a nicer set of heads.
Good job anyway guys, just stating my thoughts. I was under the assumption that this thread was about the LS7 engine, so that was the numbers I was comparing.
Good job anyway guys, just stating my thoughts. I was under the assumption that this thread was about the LS7 engine, so that was the numbers I was comparing.
So a I am confused...what is your point?
I heard some "arguing about cost and then"...something something, "yeah but it is an LS7"... then "I don't see what the big deal is."
I really have read through your questions 3 times now, and I still can't make heads or tails of it especially after the last post.
06-18-2007, 09:17 AM
#84
Originally Posted by juiced_z28
OK for you smartasses. I am talking about this engine build compared to the numerous "cam only" LS7's out there making mid 5 hundreds on the dyno. Im not trying to bash or sound like a know it all. Im just saying, with a set of heads and the probably necessary high dollar intake Im just not sure that I personally would consider the results worth the money to take the car to the next level. I do know that it would not be possible to make this much power all motor without the parts/combination that is being discussed in the original post. Maybe I was not clear in saying what I was trying to get across as my opinion. I posted with the intention of some criticism but also figure some other people would agree that the extra 50ish rwhp would not be worth the thousands of dollars it took to get there. I am in no way saying this is not a badass setup or that they had excellent results. I just believe that LSX based engines do very well on stock heads and intake and dont have as much to gain as an old school SBC or SBF with a nicer set of heads.
Good job anyway guys, just stating my thoughts. I was under the assumption that this thread was about the LS7 engine, so that was the numbers I was comparing.
Good job anyway guys, just stating my thoughts. I was under the assumption that this thread was about the LS7 engine, so that was the numbers I was comparing.
Granted, an LS7 intake manifold and LS7 heads with a large cam on top of a built shortblock could do better than 600rwhp with 427+ cid as we have seen and for less money. But, the TFS235/Ported FAST90 is by no means a bad combo - in fact it is really great. Either way, you're spending a solid $3k plus for either combination + rockers.
06-18-2007, 01:05 PM
#86
Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
Considering this engine is fully forged/makes more power/costs less than an unmodified Crate LS7/ and according to the graph below makes well over 60rwhp MORE than a MODIFIED LS7... I think I know which one I would pick 
06-18-2007, 01:48 PM
#87
Im real curious as to how many LS7s you have seen make 610rwhp WITH the power under the curve of this 440..... I know of a 449 that just left our shop making 611/522 with ET LS7 heads and a sheet metal intake.... Please fill me in on these monster packages we have been missing
06-18-2007, 02:48 PM
#88
Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
Im real curious as to how many LS7s you have seen make 610rwhp WITH the power under the curve of this 440..... I know of a 449 that just left our shop making 611/522 with ET LS7 heads and a sheet metal intake.... Please fill me in on these monster packages we have been missing
I wasn't knocking your package at all. It is very impressive.It should have put down monster numbers considering the cam size and the total package. It seems you have figured out the way to make big power with the Fast intake. All I was saying is that because it made 60 rwhp more than that ls7 package, doesn't mean that it will make more than all of them.
BTW LG has several that are over 600 RWHP, and these are 427's. Just because they do not post them all on here doesn't mean that they are not around.
Katech's Camaro put down 551 on their Mustang, and we all all know how stingy it is. I am NOT saying anything negative about your Dyno.
When I get mine finished I will post up my results. I am not saying that I will beat or match these numbers at all, but I am saying I (should) destroy the numbers of the LS7 you posted, with a VERY streetable sized cam.
Once again congrats on the combo, I know the owner is well pleased, and that is all that matters
06-18-2007, 04:50 PM
#89
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i have never really seen an "off" dynojet before, just user "adjustments".... usually it works or not at all. anyone can pull tricks though
these threads get off track easy
props to vengeance ! those guys were messing with lsx's since before there was an x haha...later
these threads get off track easy
props to vengeance ! those guys were messing with lsx's since before there was an x haha...later
06-18-2007, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Whitten
So a I am confused...what is your point?
I heard some "arguing about cost and then"...something something, "yeah but it is an LS7"... then "I don't see what the big deal is."
I really have read through your questions 3 times now, and I still can't make heads or tails of it especially after the last post.
I heard some "arguing about cost and then"...something something, "yeah but it is an LS7"... then "I don't see what the big deal is."
I really have read through your questions 3 times now, and I still can't make heads or tails of it especially after the last post.
Again, I wasnt putting down their setup at all, Im just not verbally sucking them off like some idiots are either.
06-19-2007, 03:38 AM
#91
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LS7 440 cubic inch shortblock
TrickFlow 235cc Cylinder Heads
Vengeance Racing CUSTOM camshaft(.596 lift I&E)
FAST 90 Port Matched
LS2 90
VeraRam Induction
KOOKS Longtubes w/catted X pipe
STOCK Z06 Catback
STOCK MAF
Pump Gas
Full Belts
The highlighted items catch my attention more than anything else considering the results.
IMAGINE how much MORE power could be obtained with this set-up MINUS Catalytic Converters, a better-flowing Catback, and a Killer Bee Intake???
Also, in regards to Vengeance's "questionable" dyno: didn't Vengeance take the car to another dyno and achieve HIGHER #'s then their own dyno?
TrickFlow 235cc Cylinder Heads
Vengeance Racing CUSTOM camshaft(.596 lift I&E)
FAST 90 Port Matched
LS2 90
VeraRam Induction
KOOKS Longtubes w/catted X pipe
STOCK Z06 Catback
STOCK MAF
Pump Gas
Full Belts
The highlighted items catch my attention more than anything else considering the results.
IMAGINE how much MORE power could be obtained with this set-up MINUS Catalytic Converters, a better-flowing Catback, and a Killer Bee Intake???
Also, in regards to Vengeance's "questionable" dyno: didn't Vengeance take the car to another dyno and achieve HIGHER #'s then their own dyno?
06-19-2007, 07:38 AM
#93
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Originally Posted by juiced_z28
I dont see whats not to get, you are just being an asshat. Dont get pissed that Im replying to your response, you wanted a reply, or you wouldnt be so childish. Surely you can read plain English, I try to make things I post fairly simple for simple minded people to understand.
Again, I wasnt putting down their setup at all, Im just not verbally sucking them off like some idiots are either.
Again, I wasnt putting down their setup at all, Im just not verbally sucking them off like some idiots are either.
Jeeeze...I must have hit a nerve, I wasn't mad at you at all. I was asking an honest to goodness question because I really didn't understand what you were trying to get at and wanted a dead on clarification so I could give you a good response.
If you want to get your panties in a wad because you are pissed off that no one on here simple minded or otherwise understood what you are asking be my guest.
That being said, since the gloves are off and I have now been labled an "asshat' and "childish" it is very clear to me that you a fairly young and or very immature. I answered your first question nicely, and tried to get a clarification on your second.
If you want to **** talk or derail this thread forget it. You can either get the hell out or stop being an ******* .
Oh and for the "sucking off" comment. Forgive the rest of us non internet racers for being impressed with tangible evidence of a very baddass and RARE set-up. I haven't seen to many of these things running around on the street, and I have been around way more than my fare share of rare cars. The people in here like myself are interested in Vengeance for a very good reason, and it isn't because their ***** taste nice.
I am getting tired of all the controversy people start in their threads.
06-19-2007, 07:52 AM
#94
Originally Posted by juiced_z28
Im lost, I thought that there were several with just a cam and full bolt ons making 550rwhp. So you guys found about 50 or so rwhp with about another $6K or more invested? Not trying to be a total skeptic and I have never messed with these cars so I have no clue. Just curious. Kind of like I am skeptical about spending $1500 plus for heads for an LS1 to gain 30rwhp at the very very most. Id just use bigger jets, lol.
This engine has about as uch to do with a stock cube LS1 as a Pro Stock motor. That is an exageration(sp??) of course, but you get my point.
Honestly let us not compare this to a ls7 though. Sure this engine was less than a ls7 crate engine, but they are made to different ends. The Factory engine has tons of torture testing behind it and is made to to last forever. While I am sure this engine will be dead nuts reliable, it is pushed much close to the edge of the performance envelope.
The ls7 is a fine benchmark to compare against, however it is made to factory specs. Even the bone stock factory long block has seen 500 rwhp with boltons and a tune, that makes it that much more impressive.
With all the different ls platforms out there now, "cam only" takes on a completely different meaning for each engine.
Sorry for the
, just wanted to clear something up.
06-19-2007, 08:26 AM
#95
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Whitten
Then I am very sorry, I thought you were being a sarcastic *** and did not take your previous post as you asking a constructive question. I am the one with the lack of knowledge here as far as some of these setups. I am not jealous and am envious of this setup. Basically what I was saying is Horsepower VS. Money. My understanding initially was that this engine started out as an LS7 if you want to know where I got lost and perhaps lost others. I thought then later they had purchased aftermarket heads and all this other stuff. I guess I actually got lost from the get go on this thread and maybe that is why my post did not make since to most of you.
Then I am very sorry, I thought you were being a sarcastic *** and did not take your previous post as you asking a constructive question. I am the one with the lack of knowledge here as far as some of these setups. I am not jealous and am envious of this setup. Basically what I was saying is Horsepower VS. Money. My understanding initially was that this engine started out as an LS7 if you want to know where I got lost and perhaps lost others. I thought then later they had purchased aftermarket heads and all this other stuff. I guess I actually got lost from the get go on this thread and maybe that is why my post did not make since to most of you.
06-19-2007, 10:20 AM
#96
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Originally Posted by juiced_z28
Whitten
Then I am very sorry, I thought you were being a sarcastic *** and did not take your previous post as you asking a constructive question. I am the one with the lack of knowledge here as far as some of these setups. I am not jealous and am envious of this setup. Basically what I was saying is Horsepower VS. Money. My understanding initially was that this engine started out as an LS7 if you want to know where I got lost and perhaps lost others. I thought then later they had purchased aftermarket heads and all this other stuff. I guess I actually got lost from the get go on this thread and maybe that is why my post did not make since to most of you.
Then I am very sorry, I thought you were being a sarcastic *** and did not take your previous post as you asking a constructive question. I am the one with the lack of knowledge here as far as some of these setups. I am not jealous and am envious of this setup. Basically what I was saying is Horsepower VS. Money. My understanding initially was that this engine started out as an LS7 if you want to know where I got lost and perhaps lost others. I thought then later they had purchased aftermarket heads and all this other stuff. I guess I actually got lost from the get go on this thread and maybe that is why my post did not make since to most of you.
Did you get your question answered? If not I will do my best to help.
06-19-2007, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by The Dragon
IMAGINE how much MORE power could be obtained with this set-up MINUS Catalytic Converters, a better-flowing Catback, and a Killer Bee Intake???
06-19-2007, 04:14 PM
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Dual cutouts would make an even nicer difference!! I cant wait till you get your car done, break it in, and get some videos. I wouldnt mind being the car next to you in the vid that everyone laughs at cause it just got its *** handed to it as long as I get to see it, and hear it.