New 402/L92 Results
07-19-2007 | 02:10 PM
#61
Originally Posted by Stang's Bane
Just to play devils advocate here.
Did anything change from when you spec'd the cam to installation?
Did anything change from when you spec'd the cam to installation?
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
07-19-2007 | 02:25 PM
#62
What I am asking is the rest of the setup the same. ie. compression, exhaust, intake, etc.
You are saying that the exhaust needs to be bigger, while I agree, when you spec'd the cam, was it supposed to have 1 7/8's headers or was it supposed to have the 1 3/4. From the looks of the cam it seems like to me that you expected it to have the smaller tubes.
You are saying that the exhaust needs to be bigger, while I agree, when you spec'd the cam, was it supposed to have 1 7/8's headers or was it supposed to have the 1 3/4. From the looks of the cam it seems like to me that you expected it to have the smaller tubes.
07-19-2007 | 02:32 PM
#63
There is so much BS by people claiming to be in the know that it's ridiculous. A lot of information has been made public about the L92 builds here by me and others. People would be much better served just to search and read what people have actually done. Some that worked and some that didn't. Bob's is one that didn't but he's moving in the right direction. The car was tuned by Julio and Max at Cartek in it's current configuration. I think their reputation speaks for itself.
Last edited by WKMCD; 07-19-2007 at 02:57 PM.
07-20-2007 | 07:18 AM
#64
Originally Posted by RGKSR
I spoke with the guys at Cartek today and I'm getting a new cam. I should have it installed in about 2-3 weeks. I think it's very similar to what Kevin (WKMCD) has. I left it up to them to pick one for me.
I asked them to spec something out last week.
I asked them to spec something out last week.
Thats the way we did Kevins. So we had a solid idea of gains from JUST the cam, and then again JUST the heads, and then again AFTER tuning. Puts any doubt to rest.
For the record, we gained a little from each, but the cam swap is what picked up the single most biggest improvement.
07-20-2007 | 07:26 AM
#65
Originally Posted by Stang's Bane
was it supposed to have 1 7/8's headers or was it supposed to have the 1 3/4. From the looks of the cam it seems like to me that you expected it to have the smaller tubes.
2005 CTSV 408 L92/L76 231/235 LSK 497rwhp/481rwt
I would think the 1 3/4 would do more to help the low/mid torque number.
07-20-2007 | 07:55 AM
#66
Originally Posted by WKMCD
Chris - 2C5S - made very good number with 1 3/4 LT's a a small cam.
2005 CTSV 408 L92/L76 231/235 LSK 497rwhp/481rwt
I would think the 1 3/4 would do more to help the low/mid torque number.
2005 CTSV 408 L92/L76 231/235 LSK 497rwhp/481rwt
I would think the 1 3/4 would do more to help the low/mid torque number.
so I would think they are more than capable of supporting the same on a L92 head.
But what the hell do I know?
07-20-2007 | 10:23 AM
#67
Right now I think any speculation on this is going to be really subjective....I'm not sure I agree with putting the money in a new cam. I think that some more casual investigation should have been done, like checking fuel pressure and looking at the timing with some software. You could have seen alot from just that before spending anymore money. You can still do that after you switch to this cam though (and probably need to), so let us know what the word is....
07-20-2007 | 10:49 AM
#68
Originally Posted by sapper_daddy
I think that some more casual investigation should have been done, like checking fuel pressure and looking at the timing with some software. You could have seen alot from just that before spending anymore money.
07-20-2007 | 01:35 PM
#70
Originally Posted by WKMCD
Chris - 2C5S - made very good number with 1 3/4 LT's a a small cam.
2005 CTSV 408 L92/L76 231/235 LSK 497rwhp/481rwt
I would think the 1 3/4 would do more to help the low/mid torque number.
2005 CTSV 408 L92/L76 231/235 LSK 497rwhp/481rwt
I would think the 1 3/4 would do more to help the low/mid torque number.
I resemble that remark
07-20-2007 | 02:33 PM
#72
Any news yet?
I'd seriously consider running a Comp XE-R 242/248 112+0 for more power or a 234/242 112+0 for more streetability on something like this. Traditional split cams (for Cathedral port) with no advance have made the best power with L92s from what I've seen. And XE-R lobes are still my personal favorite for making good power in most appications.
Another choice could be running the Vindicator (240/244) with no advance...
I'd seriously consider running a Comp XE-R 242/248 112+0 for more power or a 234/242 112+0 for more streetability on something like this. Traditional split cams (for Cathedral port) with no advance have made the best power with L92s from what I've seen. And XE-R lobes are still my personal favorite for making good power in most appications.
Another choice could be running the Vindicator (240/244) with no advance...
07-21-2007 | 01:42 PM
#73
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Did you calculate your overlap period at seat to seat
Originally Posted by Patrick G
It's not the case of being defensive, it's the case of a combination not being optimized before a change is made. Talk to any of the board sponsors (like LG, Synergy and HTM) who have had strong success with L92s and you will find consensus in 3 areas:
1. The L92s are much more sensitive to overlap and where it occurs. They make the best power with a later intake valve closing point, a later intake valve opening point, an earlier exhaust valve opening point and the same exhaust valve closing point that works best in an LS1. What you come up with are cams with overlap that is around 15 degrees at .050", wider LSAs (like 114-116), and larger splits to the exhaust.
2. For whatever reason, the L92s like about 4 degrees more timing than cathedral port motors. That means if you're not running 30-34 degrees of timing, you're leaving power on the table.
3. 1 7/8" headers have shown bigger gains on the L92 motors than cathedral port motors. Anyone running an 1 3/4" header could be leaving LOTS of power on the table.
I would expect that the timing was not optimized, the compression was lower than expected and the smaller headers were holding the project back. By addressing any of these 3 points, you could look like a hero without even touching the cam. Like I said, Cartek is smart enough to find missing power in the tune. How much credit they give to that verses the new hardware will probably never be known.
1. The L92s are much more sensitive to overlap and where it occurs. They make the best power with a later intake valve closing point, a later intake valve opening point, an earlier exhaust valve opening point and the same exhaust valve closing point that works best in an LS1. What you come up with are cams with overlap that is around 15 degrees at .050", wider LSAs (like 114-116), and larger splits to the exhaust.
2. For whatever reason, the L92s like about 4 degrees more timing than cathedral port motors. That means if you're not running 30-34 degrees of timing, you're leaving power on the table.
3. 1 7/8" headers have shown bigger gains on the L92 motors than cathedral port motors. Anyone running an 1 3/4" header could be leaving LOTS of power on the table.
I would expect that the timing was not optimized, the compression was lower than expected and the smaller headers were holding the project back. By addressing any of these 3 points, you could look like a hero without even touching the cam. Like I said, Cartek is smart enough to find missing power in the tune. How much credit they give to that verses the new hardware will probably never be known.
07-21-2007 | 09:22 PM
#74
Originally Posted by LS1curious
Did you calculate your overlap period at seat to seat
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
07-23-2007 | 11:40 AM
#76
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
You sure that advance you put into the camshaft is helping you?? and with the LSK it'll exagerate issues with reversion back up into the intake manifold.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Yes, seat to seat and at .050". Because of the large intake valves and robust low lift flow, the L92s are very sensitive to the wrong placement of overlap.
07-23-2007 | 02:57 PM
#78
Originally Posted by LS1curious
You sure that advance you put into the camshaft is helping you?? and with the LSK it'll exagerate issues with reversion back up into the intake manifold.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
07-26-2007 | 06:17 PM
#79
DynoTune Results with new Cam. I swapped the cam last week. I just walked in the door from getting the car tuned.
The Patrick G. cam made more RWHP (460 vs 451) and RWTQ (421 vs 414).
I am happier with the newer cam as I feel that it is more driveable down low.
I can cruise @ 1K, and it pulls cleanly. I think if I was going to race the car, I might put the 1st cam back in.
Like I said in the very 1st post, I was never unhappy with the cam, but the L92 heads are still new and I wanted to play.
Who knows, next maybe a different set of heads? I just want good power under the curve.
Bob K.
The Patrick G. cam made more RWHP (460 vs 451) and RWTQ (421 vs 414).
I am happier with the newer cam as I feel that it is more driveable down low.
I can cruise @ 1K, and it pulls cleanly. I think if I was going to race the car, I might put the 1st cam back in.
Like I said in the very 1st post, I was never unhappy with the cam, but the L92 heads are still new and I wanted to play.
Who knows, next maybe a different set of heads? I just want good power under the curve.
Bob K.